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Hitchen's Challange

DNB

Christian
You saw films. With dvientidts or people pretending to be. "Academics".

I majored in geology.
If a person has an interest in facts,
" flood" is absurd. There are so many ways besides the total lack of evidence that it
did happen, its like saying Australia isnt really there, or there are two Australias.

This is simply so as anyone can find for himself. Unless of course you restrict your
search to such as AIG.

If you want to go supernatural, then sure.
God did it then hid all the evidence.
Sent thewater to Neptune to make a warning beacon against incoming rogue angels.

Its kinda silly.

However, if you take God seriously, youve a responsibility to, take Him seriously.

This flood story is a myth that makes God out to be a mass murderer.
Sponsoring the flood story is bearing false witness.
You- if as I said actually take God seriously- owe it to Him, and yourself to actually investigate. Make an effort. I guarantee
that i am right about no flood.
No, His objective remains, he destroyed all life that could not be sustained outside the ark with the waters risen above the mountains for about a year. It was the restoration that may have been expedited by supernatural means.

As when Korah and his band rebelled against Moses, an earthquake devoured Korah, his family, and all those that took part in the rebellion. Was there the conventional traces of an earthquake afterwards?

If you majored in geology, then you should know that there is not typically a consensus in the world of academia. Or, at least, there is always controversy amongst peers of equal credentials. The position that you take may be popular and majority, but, as far as wisdom is concerned, God invariably acts in a manner that confounds the intelligent. He always leaves a certain amount of ambiguity in order to elicit doubt in some, so that those with the hardened hearts may be exposed. He has not revealed Himself in an undeniable manner, so that the skeptics will remain skeptical and be labeled as such.

Again, we believe in the miraculous due to the purpose behind it, and not for the fantastical nature of it.
 

Daniel Nicholson

Blasphemous Pryme
He always leaves a certain amount of ambiguity in order to elicit doubt in some, so that those with the hardened hearts may be exposed. He has not revealed Himself in an undeniable manner, so that the skeptics will remain skeptical and be labeled as such.

This statement basically means that there is no way to have a rational conversation with people like you. Anything and everything can be accepted or dismissed in your favour.

It's like playing a game with someone who changes the rules at will and never loses. It kind of makes the game pointless really.
 
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DNB

Christian
This statement basically means that there is no way to have a rational conversation with people like you. Anything and everything can be accepted or dismissed in your favour.

It's like playing a game with someone who changes the rules at will and never loses. It kind of makes the game pointless really.
Allow me to define the word 'pointless' for you: expressing an extremely profound principle, that has absolutely no impact on the listener.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
certain scientists have concluded that there was a global flood.
1. This is so typical of religious apologists (and similar others like anti-vaxxers). They reject science as unreliable or irrelevant ... until they come across a crackpot with a scientific qualification - then suddenly science is conclusive and undeniable, even though the global scientific consensus still contradicts their position.
It is just bonkers and illustrates a complete lack of understanding of how science, evidence and rational argument work.

2. No respected or legitimate geologist, archaeologist, historian, etc claims that there was ever a global flood that eliminated any accessible safe areas. So no, you are wrong.

So, now we have academia against academia. Stale mate
No we don't. Even if there was one scientist who suggested a global flood, there is no evidence to support it and the overwhelming consensus is for no flood.
Do you think that an issue that is 99% vs 1% is "stalemate? :tearsofjoy:

Yes, of course, God would be extremely pleased with my espousal of God as a sovereign, transcendent and holy entity, that abhors wickedness, and who, therefore, exacts judgment on those who cause evil and show contempt for Him and His creation.
Unless you are worshiping the wrong version of god, in which case you are doubly ****ed!
 

Audie

Veteran Member
No, His objective remains, he destroyed all life that could not be sustained outside the ark with the waters risen above the mountains for about a year. It was the restoration that may have been expedited by supernatural means.

As when Korah and his band rebelled against Moses, an earthquake devoured Korah, his family, and all those that took part in the rebellion. Was there the conventional traces of an earthquake afterwards?

If you majored in geology, then you should know that there is not typically a consensus in the world of academia. Or, at least, there is always controversy amongst peers of equal credentials. The position that you take may be popular and majority, but, as far as wisdom is concerned, God invariably acts in a manner that confounds the intelligent. He always leaves a certain amount of ambiguity in order to elicit doubt in some, so that those with the hardened hearts may be exposed. He has not revealed Himself in an undeniable manner, so that the skeptics will remain skeptical and be labeled as such.

Again, we believe in the miraculous due to the purpose behind it, and not for the fantastical nature of it.

By " restoration" you mean that all evidence was magically erased.

You've evidently not graced the ivy halls witj
your presence so I won't assume you should
know better than to so completely misrepresent the nature and extent of controversy
"Always controversy among peers of equal credentials" is grossly misleading, that is,
you've misled yourself.
There will be disagreement as to what sketchy
data may mean.

Controversy is welcome and necessary in science BUT, not every half wit opinion is
welcome at the table.
It is necessary to have actual data.

There is no ( zero) data to show there ever
was a world wide flood. All of the indications
of such an event are missing. (Tidied up?)

But it goes way beyond just lack of evidence.
To have had a flood and tidy up, it would also
be necessary to fake all of the proof that there was no flood.
The polar ice caps, just for one, would have to
be replaced, and not just with a lot of frozen water.
All the internal structure would have to be meticulously rebuilt.
What structure?
Every year's snowfall forms a distinct layer
with its own internal structure different from every other layer.
Each layer traps some air, pollens, dust,
sulfuric acid, volcanic ash, etc.
A little different every year.

Drill down, count the layers. There are many many tens of thousands of them.
They can be counted visually and by electric log, based on the different conductivity of each
year (see sulfuric acid)
Organic material can be carbon dated.
Every volcano has its own " fingerprint"
unique ash.
Count down to 1883, and there is ash from
Krakatoa. Count down to the year 79, there's Vesuvias ash and sulfuric acid spike.
Radiocarbon gives the same dates.

There is no " controversy" as to whether the
methods work.

The ice was there long long before any " flood".
Ice floats.

I just mentioned here one thing that disproves the "flood". Not that they concern themselves with "flood" any more than fisheries biologists
concern themselves with disproving mermaids.

If a person wishes, finds it necessary to
dismiss in ignorance what they dont understand and cannot accept for emotional
reasons, that is their situation, and so much the
worse for them.

Making silly claims about " controversy"
and evidence that simply does not exist
any more than it does for mermaids seems to
me quite a mistaken enterprise.

Mistaken in that to dismiss in ignorance is the height of foolishness.
You know that is so.
That puts you halfway to an interesting epiphany.
A good faith effort to learn some actual geology should take you the rest of the way.

A bonus (big one) would be learning to see
( understand) the lanscape around you for
what it really is, in all its depth wonder and
history- which, btw, and imo, would show a
far greater appreciation for such God as there may be than believing its all been faked up
to hide a mythical flood.

If you travel at all, grab a guide to roadside
geology for your state. Try it!
 
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Sheldon

Veteran Member
Never changed his mind, silly, it was planned all along, obviously, once the initial lesson was taught,.

So it dishonestly lied, to specifically endorse slavery, causing untold suffering for millions, and just to to teach a lesson, nice. This deity is sounding less moral the more you post, and more and more immorally cruel and barbaric. Again I can only be thankful there isn't a shred of objective evidence any such deity exists.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Noah lived to about 900+ years, and was 600 at the time of the flood - much time to build a formidable expedition..

That is a bare unevidenced claim, and a preposterous one at that.


The majority of water came from the core of the earth itself.

:facepalm:There is no water in the earth's core, again the sheer idiocy of the claim has me wondering if this is some sort of an elaborate hoax?

"The Earth is made up of three main layers, the solid outer layer is called the crust. These are made of tectonic plates. The Earth is made up of roughly a dozen major plates and several minor plates, called the lithosphere, consists of 15 to 20 moving tectonic plates.

Under the crust lies the mantle, which is made up of hot magma and other semi-solid rocks and minerals. Tectonic activity in the mantle often results in noticeable changes in the crust we live on, including volcanic eruptions and earthquakes.

Beneath the mantle, you'll find the core. The Earth's core is the deepest, hottest layer, and it's made up of two layers itself: the outer core which borders the mantle and the inner core, which is a ball-shaped layer made almost entirely of metal.
The outer core is about 1,400 miles thick, and it's made mostly of a combination (called an alloy) of iron and nickel, along with small amounts of other dense elements like gold, platinum, and uranium. In the outer core, they're in a very hot liquid form. How hot? Try between 7,000-9,000º F!"

What do you imagine would happen to any water at those temperatures, do take your time.
 

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Yes, around 6k years ago. And, yes, not specifically the core, but subterranean - as opposed to solely from the atmosphere - but, if God wanted, the atmosphere would have been sufficient.
Ah so having made a string of asinine and demonstrably false claims, you're now resorting to appeals to inexplicable magic. Doesn't it strike you as odd that a deity that has such power would need a global flood and a global genocide in the first place? Let alone a small family using hand tools to build a boat from wood by hand, and then gather at least two of every air breathing species into it, and feed them for almost a year, not to mention the diverse environmental requirements from arctic species to desert dwellers.

The whole myth is utterly preposterous of course, but the slam dunk here is the entire dearth of any geological evidence.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Ah so having made a string of asinine and demonstrably false claims, you're now resorting to appeals to inexplicable magic. Doesn't it strike you as odd that a deity that has such power would need a global flood and a global genocide in the first place? Let alone a small family using hand tools to build a boat from wood by hand, and then gather at least two of every air breathing species into it, and feed them for almost a year, not to mention the diverse environmental requirements from arctic species to desert dwellers.

The whole myth is utterly preposterous of course, but the slam dunk here is the entire dearth of any geological evidence.

I think use of words like " asinine" is
inappropriate and counterproductive.

For one, this is not his field of expertise,
and the things said reflect sincere belief
based on what is understood to be the final authotity
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Name an ethical statement made or action performed by a person of faith that could not have been made or performed by a nonbeliever.
[QUOTE/]
Back at you...... You are not pretending that you are more ethical are you?
Name a wicked statement made or action performed precisely because of religious faith?
Oh, more than the page could hold, I'm afraid, but you could do better to concentrate upon your own conduct, No?
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
But Jesus never did say that. That was a Christian construct.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:53-55.​



John
 

lukethethird

unknown member
But Jesus never did say that. That was a Christian construct.
Of which the gospel writers borrowed from Paul, the Lord's supper, and had Jesus say a rendition of the words in the Last Supper scene.

1 Cor 10:16-17: The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

But of course you don't care about Paul and Christian origins.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
No, His objective remains, he destroyed all life that could not be sustained outside the ark with the waters risen above the mountains for about a year. It was the restoration that may have been expedited by supernatural means.

As when Korah and his band rebelled against Moses, an earthquake devoured Korah, his family, and all those that took part in the rebellion. Was there the conventional traces of an earthquake afterwards?

If you majored in geology, then you should know that there is not typically a consensus in the world of academia. Or, at least, there is always controversy amongst peers of equal credentials. The position that you take may be popular and majority, but, as far as wisdom is concerned, God invariably acts in a manner that confounds the intelligent. He always leaves a certain amount of ambiguity in order to elicit doubt in some, so that those with the hardened hearts may be exposed. He has not revealed Himself in an undeniable manner, so that the skeptics will remain skeptical and be labeled as such.

Again, we believe in the miraculous due to the purpose behind it, and not for the fantastical nature of it.
Or, that God doesn't exist.
Either way, the {lack of] evidence is the same.
 
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