Holy books

[shytot]

A holy book is a list of rules designed to keep people in line.
You're now thinking I am being cynical, let's look at the facts, every holy book from every corner of the world is a list of 'do's' and 'dont's', all per ported to be handed down from on high,
they then go on to tell the reader what they will get if they abide by the rules, and what will
happen if they dont, it is made easier to abide by the rules than go against them,
so if everyone around you is following the rules, keep your mouth shut, or they will kick
you out of the group, as a non-believer,
you will then need to set out a list of rules that YOU believe is the right way, this is the way all the different branches of the same religion are formed, every society need's rules to function properly, without rules you have chaos, which is the way we are going now, with everyone doing 'their own thing'.

 

[Green Gaia]

shytot, have you ever studied Buddhism?

 

[jewscout]

I'd argue that the Tanach is far more than just a book with rules in it and to say so is to not look at the whole thing and the importance of the Tanach.
Though you may have a point on a very base level i think you are overlooking a large portion, at least in Judaism, of what the Tanach is all about.

 

[painted wolf]

my religion has no holy books, we do just fine with oral history and personal serching for truth. I do agree that every society has thier own set of rules and that they are nessisary for the society to thrive. But I have to say that I also agree with Jewscout that most religious texts are more than just simple books of rules. They contain the history and the hopes and fears of any given group.

wa:do

 

[Master Vigil]

Shytot, you have not studied taoism either.

 

[robtex]

A holy book is a list of rules designed to keep people in line.

that is kinda a broad claim. Maybe you could make that point on a book by book basis. If the book is rooted in dogma and is declared infalliable, completely accurate, inerrant, word of God ect it may have the propensity to be used as a tool for control but to say all books in religion are used this way is silly.

There are no buddistTaoist or hindu texts that I know of that dictate behavior..they are used as guidelines for self exploration. UU literature has no set beliefs just ideas to guides ones journey. A lot of religious texts are more philophy based than black and white dogma and I hope you don't excluded them from your philosphy readings (if you read philosphy) because they were written by a theist just as I hope thiests don' exclude writings by an atheits.

 

[Trinity]

A holy book is a list of rules designed to keep people in line.
You're now thinking I am being cynical, let's look at the facts

Be careful not to per port your opion as fact.

every holy book from every corner of the world is a list of 'do's' and 'dont's', all per ported to be handed down from on high,
they then go on to tell the reader what they will get if they abide by the rules, and what will
happen if they dont, it is made easier to abide by the rules than go against them,

Now I can only write from my discipline, however there exist a difference between a simple list of orders created to keep people in line, and the bible that among other things, has instructions on human nature, relationships and behaviors that, if done or ignored will lead one to happiness or misery. This understanding of human nature penetrates the core of our being and is far beyond any human knowledge, so much so, that it can easily be dismissed without further reflection upon the ramifications of specific actions and dispositions.

so if everyone around you is following the rules, keep your mouth shut, or they will kick
you out of the group, as a non-believer,

This may occur due to a misinterpretation of the scripture. The fact is that God is the one who judges, not men, sometimes we mortal forget this. That is when we run into trouble.

you will then need to set out a list of rules that YOU believe is the right way, this is the way all the different branches of the same religion are formed, every society need's rules to function properly, without rules you have chaos, which is the way we are going now, with everyone doing 'their own thing'.

This is a dense paragraph and is right on the money. This is also very calvanistic, and not so much Catholic philosophy (just for your understanding).

 

[shytot]

Trinity...this what you wrote:

This may occur due to a misinterpretation of the scripture.
The fact is that God is the one who judges, not men, sometimes we mortal forget this.
That is when we run into trouble.

Someone has done a perfect job on you, you are well and truly captured.
I heard a radio talk show guest say that people who commit crimes should not be punished on
earth, because god will be their judge when they die!!!!!
was that you?
I find it all very sad when people put themselves in second place, and just spout what they have been
programmed to say, if I said, the fairies at the bottom of the garden told me that 'this' and 'that' was true, you would laugh out load, well unfortunately that is how you sound to me.

1. misinterpretation of the scripture. This is what causes all the problems in the first place.
2. The fact is that God is the one who judges. The fact is we don't know if there is a God.
3. we mortal forget this. Mortal is the operative word, we will not beleive we are going to die,
so we make up stories and ways to get around it.

 

[Ronald]

To read my posts, you wouldn't think that I was just like you!!!!!

I could have been your President, Peas in a pod. I could have written your post!

I walked a mile in your shoes, many a mile. Who woulda thunk it? LOL

 

[croak]

Well, the basis of the Qur'an is to guide us humans to do the right things. If the Qur'an didn't say how to treat women, they wouldn't be treated equally to men, would they? If the Qur'an didn't say not to, the people would still be worshipping idols. It isn't an order book; it's a choice book. You make the choice whether to follow it or not. And if you saw you follow it, but make exceptions, thinking, "Allah knows I'm a special person. He'll forgive me." Well, He won't be happy, and you'll go to Hell, until the time has come for you to be forgiven. Allah is Merciful and is willing to forgive us. Think of Hell as a purifying station: it gets rid of your sins, and teaches you to fear Allah. But don't think that it's like a summer camp: two months and bye. Oh no, you may stay in Hell for over 100,000 years! And I don't believe people should go unpunished since Allah will punish them. We should be punishing them, teaching them that what they are doing is wrong. If you didn't, you aren't exactly helping everybody, and if he lives a long life, you think people would be waiting patiently?

 

[Trinity]

Trinity...this what you wrote:
Someone has done a perfect job on you

You are right, God did a perfect job on me, thanks for noticing. He did a perfect job on you too, you will recognize this when your heart is open.

you are well and truly captured.
I heard a radio talk show guest say that people who commit crimes should not be punished on
earth, because god will be their judge when they die!!!!!

God judges a persons soul, we judge their actions based on God's natural law

was that you?

Nope

I find it all very sad when people put themselves in second place, and just spout what they have been
programmed to say, if I said, the fairies at the bottom of the garden told me that 'this'

are you talking about fairies, nymphs, elfs, leprachans... you need to be more specific.

and 'that' was true, you would laugh out load, well unfortunately that is how you sound to me.

You and me both, it is very sad when ones heart has become so hard, that it is difficult for even God to penetrate it. I will pray for you.

 

[shytot]

Yes you pray for me, (if it makes you feel better) because my heart and my brain are, as you say 'closed', I just 'listen' to fairy tales, I don't 'believe' them.
Just as a matter of interest, do you think Jesus was a 'man' or a 'God' ? (and please don't say both)
if he was a man like me, he had no 'powers', if he was a 'God' then he knew what was coming.
and if we are all made in God's image, does that mean God needs to eat, and sleep,
or was that part not really supposed to be believed.
I can not believe I am writing this, it's like arguing with a child.

 

[Green Gaia]

***MOD POST***

This is a reminder to all that:

1) We respect all religions and ideas here, and will not tolerate disrespect towards other religions or other members.

2) This forum is not for proselytizing.

If anyone has any questions about this, please feel free to PM me or any of the Mods or Admin.

Thank you. Now back on topic please.

 

[jewscout]

Yes you pray for me, (if it makes you feel better) because my heart and my brain are, as you say 'closed', I just 'listen' to fairy tales, I don't 'believe' them.
Just as a matter of interest, do you think Jesus was a 'man' or a 'God' ? (and please don't say both)
if he was a man like me, he had no 'powers', if he was a 'God' then he knew what was coming.
and if we are all made in God's image, does that mean God needs to eat, and sleep,
or was that part not really supposed to be believed.
I can not believe I am writing this, it's like arguing with a child.

Sir, the feeling is mutual! I feel sorry for you. You are what you dislike, a man on a soupbox preaching only your thumping the perverbial "atheist" bible.
I have no problem with you if your an atheist and don't believe that's your prerogative but don't go trying to prosyletizing, and don't tell me your not simply because your an atheist, you are! You don't see anyone trying to save you here do you???
I'd write a few more thoughts on this matter but i'd get in trouble so i'll simply ask you to try again and this time have an open mind.
Besides your posts show your lack of knowledge on most religions beyond evangelical christianity.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This is a reminder to all that: 1) We respect all religions and ideas here, and ...

If that includes antisemitism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, or a plethora of other ideas founded upon unmitigated ignorance, count me out. There is a fairly large list of ideas which I do not respect and which, I would argue, do not warrant respect.

 

[shytot]

I am very sorry if I offended anyone, I can assure you, that was not my intention, but I must admit it is a little frustrating when people insist on denying something that to my mind is such an easy thing to understand, which is, your born, you live, you die, just like all the other animals,
I know we have a little more intellect (or should I say imagination) than other animals,
but that is no reason to get carried away, and believe our imaginings are real,
that because we can imagine a God somehow makes him or her real.
And Maize I am not angry at Christianity, or any other religion, if I am angry at anything,
it is the way we can not accept the way things are, and people are afraid to die, so religion was invented.
I'm not afraid to die,(how can I be afraid of nothing), I don't want to die, but I am going to die, there is nothing I can do about that, but I will not be party to a lie, and that in truth is how I see religion.
I think everyone deals with their impending death in their own way, and religion is as good a way as any,
so I should shut up and let people live their lives, up until now it was a case of live and let live,
but religion has reared it's head with the Muslims telling the world to converts to their religion or else,
so from being none of my business what you believe, it has suddenly become my business,
so where do we go from here?

 

[jewscout]

I am very sorry if I offended anyone, I can assure you, that was not my intention, but I must admit it is a little frustrating when people insist on denying something that to my mind is such an easy thing to understand, which is, your born, you live, you die, just like all the other animals

I find your lack of knowledge frustrating shytot. Your original post that opened this thread is evident of that:

A holy book is a list of rules designed to keep people in line.

Maybe some but not all. The Tanach, while having the Laws the Jewish people follow is also a collection of our collected history and beliefs. No i don't believe every sentence word for word but it has been shown that many of the stories are based on actual occurences in the past.

so if everyone around you is following the rules, keep your mouth shut, or they will kick
you out of the group, as a non-believer

Under these guidelines most jews should then kick Jesus and his apostles out of the the group, yet he is still considered as much a Jew as anyone else. He is not an outcast, rather the messenger who brought the word of the One G-d to the Gentiles.

I think you should try researching other religions beyond christianity and Islam before making such a wide ranging assumption.
BTW:

but religion has reared it's head with the Muslims telling the world to converts to their religion or else,

So has Christianity for countless generations. They are both proselytizing religions it's sorta what they do.

 

[shytot]

Again I don't wish to offend, but asking me to 'research other religions beyond christianity and Islam' is a little silly, I don't believe in any religion, it's like me asking you to 'find out what Santa's reindeers like to eat', totally meaningless, unless you believe in Santa.
I think ALL religions are the same, like languages,they come from different parts of the world, and like languages, they sound and are written differently, but they all do the same thing in the end, and you know what that is.
And the most important thing of all is that MY religion is the TRUE religion, I have been blessed
by being born in the right place to the right parents, had I been born in Salt Lake city, I could have been raised a Morman, or South America, a Catholic, or Iraq, a Muslim, I was certainly fortunate to be born a ???
Whatever I say I will be classed as an outsider, if you are unfortunate enough not to have been brought up in a religion, ( I think I was lucky) and just can not get your head around one, or find one that suits you, you are somehow seen as missing something,
To believe in a God for me, is as silly as me asking you to believe in the man in the moon, it is completely irrational, can anyone understand where I am coming from?
I do not need a God, a whole lot of people could'nt handle that, but to me, it makes perfect sense, when I die, I'm gone.

 

[Engyo]

Shytot -

No offense taken. I disagree with your conclusion that all religions are the same and have the same end result, but my experience has been vastly different from yours, so that is probably to be expected.

 

[shytot]

Engyo, is being a Buddist the answer? I expect it is for you.
for you, being a Buddist is the only way to go.