Homo-sexuality.

[jiin_caltro]

Yes, Maize, I want to know if there's something you'd fight for not to happen. Think about it. You don't even have to say it. But think about all the dimensions to it, how it would affect others freedom, how other people might look down on you for being a bigot because you believe it. I'm trying to reach out. If I can't identify with actual beliefs, then this is the only way I can think of to find common ground.

 

[Green Gaia]

Constructive? It's a debate. The beginner of the thread didn't ask for a sympathetic shoulder, they asked for debate. As in a difference of opinions. Am I not building that?

My comment was to Deut and his childish attempt at being vulgar, not you.

 

[jiin_caltro]

My statement still stands, misinterpreted though it might have been

 

[Green Gaia]

Yes, Maize, I want to know if there's something you'd fight for not to happen. Think about it. You don't even have to say it. But think about all the dimensions to it, how it would affect others freedom, how other people might look down on you for being a bigot because you believe it. I'm trying to reach out. If I can't identify with actual beliefs, then this is the only way I can think of to find common ground.

Ummm.. no, I can't think of any beliefs that I hold that would cause someone to call me a bigot. Sorry.

 

[jiin_caltro]

I wouldn't have thought that until I came on here either. But I imagine there are a few people here who would like to...AHEM! At any rate...trying to get back on topic...Common ground! If we can't find similiar beliefs, then there has to be something else...Well, there's always the freedom of people to stamp out other people's freedom...maybe?

 

[Green Gaia]

It's been fun.... but it's past my bedtime. I'm sure someone else be along soon. Shalom.

 

[jiin_caltro]

God be with you till we meet again...(music) It was fun. I'll probably just have to quietly disappear into the night, though...

 

[Deut 13:1]

Hmm...I'm going to assume the P is directed towards me...

In that case...WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?

What Possible reason would the P be meant toward you?

 

[jiin_caltro]

I don't know...And that's exactly the reason I WANT to know

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You'd be surprised just how incoherent this discussion appears from the ouside.

 

[turk179]

I'm still trying to figure out what the "P" means.

 

[jiin_caltro]

Oh, I doubt it. Although, I should probably stop posting now. I seem to be completely mashing the original stream to paste.

 

[Aqualung]

You'd be surprised just how incoherent this discussion appears from the ouside.

That's what I was just thinking.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Common ground! If we can't find similiar beliefs, then there has to be something else

How about the Constitution of the United States, if you're from America, of course. Unfortunately for the religious who are against homosexuality, the only thing barring homosexuals from being married are religious arguments. Since the Constitution specifically states that it will make no law favoring one religion over another, or recognizing any religion, it seems that gay marriage is an ievitability. Done and done.

 

[godfree1]

Now, I’d like to say that I have no homo-sexual (I’m just going to use HS from now on because typing homo-sexual over and over gets annoying) friends, as many others here are able to claim.

What's wrong with using the very easily typed word "g-a-y"? What does the number of admitted homosexual friends you might lay (!) claim to have to do with the price of tea in China?

It’s not because I’m a homophobe or anything, there just aren’t as many here and the few I know don’t have the qualities I look for in friends.

When I think about all the many heterosexual people I've met over half of a lifetime, I'm afraid that I know exactly what you mean.

Okay, so I wanted to take a look at part of an earlier post real quick by Godfree1: “…how on Earth can heterosexual Christians detest, loathe and abhor homosexuality as much as they do without ever (apparently) having at least tried it?” To that I would give the same answer that I would give to people on different subjects, subjects such as smoking, drugs, drinking and even caffeine. Because God doesn’t like us “partaking” in such things.

I don't smoke tobacco, I hope you don't take prescription medications (or aspirin, for that matter), I drink alcohol in moderation and yap on my cell phone in consideration of others when I'm not driving, and caffeine is a drug I'm rather partial to, I'm afraid. I can't imagine an arrogant, judgmental, self-aggrandizing supernatural male figment of my imagination dictating to me what I can or cannot partake in.

So, in order for everything else to make sense, I’ll say that I’m LDS (Mormon) and we have “Strict Rules,” as some have said.

Nothing ever makes sense from a religious perspective; that's a great reason to be a non-religious person. Your brand of Christianity and the "Strict Rules" that accompany it are no one's conundrum but your own.

Guidelines that tell us to abstain from all afore-mentioned activities. Why? The reason for everything aside from HS is simple: It’s bad for your health. So am I saying HS is bad for your health? No. And yet it’s still on that little list of things where God says, “No.”

Homosexuality is at least as bad for one's health as ... heterosexuality is. Why is there a plethora of things that are "bad for your health" which go unmentioned by the Christian bible? If you hear some god you believe in "say" "No," and I don't hear anyone say anything, which of us shall be believed?

For one thing, there’s biologically no point.

What was the biological point of following my mother's instructions when she told me to call my father and persuade him to try and mail the child-support check on time the following month? What was the biological point of my mother miscarrying twins? What was the biological point of my heterosexual brother reaching sexual maturity finally at nineteen while I reached it at ten? What was the biological point of my parents' nasty divorce? What is the biological point of Christian, want-to-breed males who shoot blanks or Christian, want-to-breed females who are as barren as the Sahara Desert? It seems as though there are many conditions lacking biological points altogether, so they must not be very important to those conditions.

If you have HS intercourse, you get a “good feeling,” much like mono-sexual “good feeling” making.

What is so horribly wrong with a "good feeling", let alone "making" one happen? Why are Americans today so good-feeling-phobic? I'm almost afraid to ask, but here we go: what on Earth is "homosexual intercourse"? I've got news for all of the anti-sexual Christians out there: sex is not just for making babies, and I'm proud sexual proof of that. Sometimes, I wonder whether there doesn't exist somewhere an elite, enlightened, seductively sexual sub-species of Homo sapiens, but that's just wishful thinking on my part.

But it takes away from the true meaning.

Be specific. What "takes away from the true meaning" of what?

If a man and woman (Married, of course) have intercourse, there’s purpose: new life is created, life that brings the children of God into this world.

See the example provided above regarding Mr Blank, Ms Barren and a "new life" that is not created. I don't care about the sexual escapades of men and women together, married or not, and the children they indiscriminately breed into this world are theirs and theirs alone--raise your own broods; don't pawn 'em off on society to do the job you only thought you could. (Hey, hindsight really is 20/20!)

I personally believe that any other type of intercourse or bringing of “good feelings” is a mockery to God’s plan.

I believe that any plan-making, pleasure-hating god believed in by a part of humanity should be soundly mocked and ridiculed by the non-believing part, and this just in: sex is for ... "good feelings", thank goodness.

To take from the Bible (Which I believe to be the word of God, along with the Book of Mormon, the Quran, and several other religious texts) a few places where we get the idea that HS is “bad,” the first thing that comes to mind is Adam and Eve.

The first thing that comes to mind when I consider "Adam and Eve" is the mind-numbing gullibility of Christians. Here's something that no homosexual on planet Earth should ever have to tell a heterosexual Christian: much to our chagrin, people are created from human sex cells, not dirt and ribs as some wretched, archaic, man-made, piecemeal religious tome would have many of us believe.

Man and Woman.

"Man and woman" what? Most of the men and women I know today are divorced--at least once, and the men and women I work alongside seem to despise one another. (A quick trip into the men's locker room where the conversation flows freely always cofirms this suspicion.)

Later, we read, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Gen. 2:24) From these we’re beginning to form the opinion that God created man and woman to join together (Marriage), much like the positive and negative side of a magnet.

Let's be clear: you have formed such an opinion. My heterosexual parents were far better repellents of each other than they ever were attractants, to be sure. I recall from my junior high school biology textbook: human sex cells create men and women (reproduction), and law, I learned first-hand, creates divorce, alimony, visitation rights and child-support.

I don’t think HS’s are evil.

I don't think heterosexuals are necessarily evil, either, so I guess we're even.

Well, not because of HS. We can’t really call it a sin unless the people know that it’s wrong, since sin is knowing good and evil and choosing to do evil.

I can't imagine the "evil" in showing all my hairy buddies a real good time--and vice-versa, of course. :bounce

HS’s can be good and bad, like everyone else.

I try to be a good homosexual--or at least, good at the homosexuality I do.

But if you read things like what I’ve written and brush it off because you don’t want to hear it, then the sin is ignorance and/or pride.

I am proudly faith-free, sin-free, Christianity-free, LDS-free and god-free, and if you study your religious choices very, very hard, you will be too one fine day!

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

Sometimes, I wonder whether there doesn't exist somewhere an elite, enlightened, seductively sexual sub-species of Homo sapiens, but that's just wishful thinking on my part.

What do you mean by this? I've come across several groups of people, usually sharing religious beliefs as well as attitudes towards sexuality, that have at least tentatively tried to encourage an atmosphere that might fit what you might be suggesting. If you want to discuss it in any depth then that would warrant a new thread since its a HUGE subject.

It is of course a difficult subject to address too. So many chinese Taoist texts are sex manuals or discuss techniques that involve utilising sexual energy in various ways for spiritual purposes (i.e. ecstatic meditation, energy cultivation in general, gnosis, etc.) For instance, the most widely known technique concerns men withholding from ejaculation to retain their vital jing (primal chi/kundalini/essence/libido/sexual energy). However, attempts I've made to get a sensible discussion on the subject of sex & jing going amongst Taoists online usually go awry, even though jing is one of the three treasures! (jing, chi, shen).

 

[DTrent]

DTrent, It's fine to have your laws, but understand, they are yours. Your interpretation, not others. It would be like you don't believe in wearing tennis shoes to the mall, and telling others they can't either. Live by your laws, but respect others beliefs.

I don't get it. There doesn't seem to be a rational research or open-minded discussion here on homosexuality and God's view of it. I have already given the exact Scriptures with - not MY interpretation of them but GOD's - and no one seems to see this. There may be one person here that understands but the BIGGEST complainers of these words from the Bible are easily seen as those who do not WISH to comply or even TRY to understand God's view.
So be it. He gives us all a choice. You may live with your choice just as I may live with mine. BUT PLEASE DO NOT scream, "YOUR INTERPRETATION"!!
I do not see YOUR 'interpretation' of said words from the Bible. Thus I must conclude that your 'screams' are in lieu of an answer. There's really no way to have an intelligent conversation this way.

- Peace.

 

[godfree1]

I don't get it.

No (*sigh*), apparently you don't.

There doesn't seem to be a rational research or open-minded discussion here on homosexuality and God's view of it.

That's simply because no believed-in god of any religion has ever bothered to open up its tiny god-mouth to rationally research or open-mindedly discuss homosexuality with me (or anyone else). I'm afraid I've got only you and your interpretation of what others who share your religious beliefs wrote a very long time ago--and that's not good enough for me, because beliefs are, … well, nothing more than beliefs. I care about what people know, not what they believe, but I think I've already been over this with you before.

I have already given the exact Scriptures with - not MY interpretation of them but GOD's - and no one seems to see this.

I see that you cannot possibly interpret the words of the god you believe in for me; it will have to do that itself.

There may be one person here that understands but the BIGGEST complainers of these words from the Bible are easily seen as those who do not WISH to comply or even TRY to understand God's view.

You cannot even prove that the god you believe in exists, let alone prove that it has any kind of "view" toward (or against) homosexuality. I do not WISH to comply or even TRY to understand your view. We're here; we're queer; people just like you breed us; get used to it, because I certainly have: two of you bred me, if I'm not mistaken.

So be it. He gives us all a choice.

So be what? Nothing that you believe in has given me any choices to make whatsoever.

You may live with your choice just as I may live with mine.

I happily live with all of the choices I make.

BUT PLEASE DO NOT scream, "YOUR INTERPRETATION"!!

You're a dollar short and a day late. Some truths are harder to swallow than others; what can I say?

I do not see YOUR 'interpretation' of said words from the Bible.

I wouldn't waste a split-second of my precious time in an attempt to interpret the ancient, piecemeal, meaningless scrawl of the Christian bible … because I'm not Christian. :jiggy:

Thus I must conclude that your 'screams' are in lieu of an answer.

I don't answer to a book of lies--or its author(s).

There's really no way to have an intelligent conversation this way.

Then pray to the god you believe in that it might have an intelligent conversation with me instead. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

- Peace.

Religion, god-belief and idol-worship are the roots of all evil. As long as religion is extant, humanity shall never know peace, and you can take that to the bank. (This just in: peace has nothing to do with homophobia.)

 

[Mike182]

Dtrent: here is my interpritaiton of the scriptures you mention

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ead.php?t=17357


if you have any others, feel free to open a debate about them