Homophobia

[I Am Hugh]

I apologize for being so stupid and so far beneath your oh great and wonderous one.

It, not unlike myself, is very simple. Straight forward. Fair and honest.

 

[Argentbear]

It, not unlike myself, is very simple. Straight forward. Fair and honest.

and oh so handsome, you know you are because your mother told you so

 

[I Am Hugh]

and oh so handsome, you know you are because your mother told you so

My mother told me she wished I was dead when I was 7 but I'm not sure what relevance any of this has on the topic.

 

[Balthazzar]

Why would it be? I've managed to go 58 years and have never been called a homophobe so I am curious as to just how that would be.

I might could help you on this one. I'm sure it has to do with my stance. I'm a truthful man. Deception can be extremely detrimental. 1. Men posing as woman. 2. Men posing as woman in womans restrooms. 3. Men becoming woman, posing as woman as a natural born mn, leading other men on as if they're in it to create anything beyond a hedonist type relationship, whether for one night or multiple which would very likely involve a shocker able to destroy anything it might have been otherwise, if they were only honest from the beginning. This isn't isolated to just these and homophobia. It ventures into the world of real woman, too. With this stated, I'm sure I have offended some people by not being so accepting of deceptive practices. This may be homophobic behavior. The question is: Should this behavior be shunned? Particularly when the same is true for real woman with the shock value tell him later confession that should have been articulated or worked out before entering into a relationship at all.


Edit: So, what we have is a straight male refusing to jizz in a cup for other people to raise a kid from the jizz to be implanted, non child bearers who desire the opportunity to raise kids and people willing to both jizz in a cup and/or enter into a woman for the planting and the growth and birth of a child to be raised by people other than the one contributing the seed, while many of us require more than just ****ing for fun. Who gets left behind? Who gets left out? Who gets to raise the kids and what's left of what some of us grew accustomed to of family units and love and being there ... for better or worse? What does this have to do with homophobia? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It does spark up some hunger, but at my age ...

Consider this, I'm part of a demographic who have known uncountable abuses and from these abuses we have become guarded and demanding, if not cancelled and outcasted as irrelevant. Not much different than what many on the other side of the fence understood for a lifetime. Sometimes, we become what we hate most. In my case it would seem that "Irrelevant" is the operative term, which I've never viewed anyone as ever being, yet I have been hated for being a Christian, a straight male, white, and educated without college degree. No one ever said life was fair though. That's how it goes. I almost forgot, I've been hated for being a white non-racist by both white racists and black, and hated by Christians for being a different type of Christian than they are or were.

I'm ok with the fire at this point, although I would prefer we work this out to our benefit - collectively. We're in it together, anyway. On a personal level. I'm ok. I just don't appreciate the hate I receive for being who and what I am. I'm not happy, but I can now at the least enjoy a good laugh and mean it, whereas before my medication numbed my senses and I was outcasted for being the crazy bipolar guy who never really mingles aside from drug abuse and running away from his own life reality. It's getting both worse and better and it's all insane and twisted up, but I'm not ready to lay my soul to rest. I labor differently than I once did, and I do it in a way that I find meaningful, which is about the best I know to do.

Sorry for the rant ... I mean I "apologize". I'm far from being sorry.

 

[Argentbear]

I might could help you on this one. I'm sure it has to do with my stance. I'm a truthful man. Deception can be extremely detrimental. 1. Men posing as woman. 2. Men posing as woman in womans restrooms. 3. Men becoming woman, posing as woman as a natural born mn, leading other men on as if they're in it to create anything beyond a hedonist type relationship, whether for one night or multiple which would very likely involve a shocker able to destroy anything it might have been otherwise, if they were only honest from the beginning. This isn't isolated to just these and homophobia. It ventures into the world of real woman, too. With this stated, I'm sure I have offended some people by not being so accepting of deceptive practices. This may be homophobic behavior.

Well you are misrepresenting thansgendered people as deceitful when they are being honest. It would be deceitful for a transperson to pretend to be the sex they were assigned at birth. If you talk to trans people you wouldn't here someone say "I am a man" they would say "I am a transgender man." Do you really think trans people look to deceive anyone they are romantically attracted to?

If you are as honest as you are representing yourself you might do well to actually go talk to trans people and have an honest conversation about your preconceived ideas

Edit: So, what we have is a straight male refusing to jizz in a cup for other people to raise a kid from the jizz to be implanted, non child bearers who desire the opportunity to raise kids and people willing to both jizz in a cup and/or enter into a woman for the planting and the growth and birth of a child to be raised by people other than the one contributing the seed, while many of us require more than just ****ing for fun. Who gets left behind? Who gets left out? Who gets to raise the kids and what's left of what some of us grew accustomed to of family units and love and being there ... for better or worse? What does this have to do with homophobia? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It does spark up some hunger, but at my age ...

What the **** are you talking about?

Consider this, I'm part of a demographic who have known uncountable abuses and from these abuses we have become guarded and demanding, if not cancelled and outcasted as irrelevant. Not much different than what many on the other side of the fence understood for a lifetime. Sometimes, we become what we hate most. In my case it would seem that "Irrelevant" is the operative term, which I've never viewed anyone as ever being, yet I have been hated for being a Christian, a straight male, white, and educated without college degree. No one ever said life was fair though. That's how it goes. I almost forgot, I've been hated for being a white non-racist by both white racists and black, and hated by Christians for being a different type of Christian than they are or were.

what team?

I'm ok with the fire at this point, although I would prefer we work this out to our benefit - collectively. We're in it together, anyway. On a personal level. I'm ok. I just don't appreciate the hate I receive for being who and what I am. I'm not happy, but I can now at the least enjoy a good laugh and mean it, whereas before my medication numbed my senses and I was outcasted for being the crazy bipolar guy who never really mingles aside from drug abuse and running away from his own life reality. It's getting both worse and better and it's all insane and twisted up, but I'm not ready to lay my soul to rest. I labor differently than I once did, and I do it in a way that I find meaningful, which is about the best I know to do.

Sorry for the rant ... I mean I "apologize". I'm far from being sorry.

...right

 

[Jimmy]

To each their own.

 

[Balthazzar]

Well you are misrepresenting thansgendered people as deceitful when they are being honest. It would be deceitful for a transperson to pretend to be the sex they were assigned at birth. If you talk to trans people you wouldn't here someone say "I am a man" they would say "I am a transgender man." Do you really think trans people look to deceive anyone they are romantically attracted to?

Lets get real, ok? It happens. You are unable nor are you ever going to be qualified to speak for every transgender anyone. Period. Period. Ok? I am friends with many people on that team. Yes, I said that team. That team equates to non-straight people. Period. Ok?

If you are as honest as you are representing yourself you might do well to actually go talk to trans people and have an honest conversation about your preconceived ideas

See above. I don't need to have that conversation. We're already friends. I'm certainly not friends with all of them. I'm not friends with all white people either, or all Christians, or all blacks, or Hispanics, etc. or even every member in my own family. We mostly get along. The doesn't equate to friendship. I don't hate anyone. I get pissed about the mis-treatment and broad brushing. It effects every aspect of my life to the point that trust is such a valuable commodity that I couldn't allow myself to lie to anyone anymore about anything, which is another reason I typically stay out of the way. You really want to screw me over, ask me something about somebody I love and expect me to tell the truth about - it if risks their well being, two people would not make it out on that day. I suggest don't ask.

What the **** are you talking about?

what team?

...right

What am talking about?

I'm going to hell like every one else and as a Christian, and I know it. We're in this together. Period.

Wait, I know ... hell doesn't exist.

We're in it together, anyway.

 

[Argentbear]

By having at least one discussion with you.



No, you insist on playing silly games, you just refuse to acknowledge your games are silly, even while they prevent you from doing what you propose they are doing. But also when they are advantageous. You can't play a real game on a level playing field. You make the rules. You can't adapt outside the home court. Why argue the obvious issues of homosexuality when you can just label anyone that doesn't subscribe to your ideology, even a homosexual, as homophobic?

What are the obvious issues of homosexuality?


BUMP

 

[Balthazzar]

Hell doesn't exist? Ok, so that's not entirely true.

On that day, if it ever happens and I have reason to resist telling the truth about it for someone I love, I would very likely bleed myself in front of my inquisitor as they stand there knowing why, leaving them to ponder why they ever chose to cross that line at all.

That's hell my friend and I'm not entirely opposed to it. So, with your bump, I offer my own.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Try again without quote mining. I do not even bother to read such improper debating.

It's not really quote mining in itself. It actually even used to be the norm here (and where I learned it, and still do it even though some have told me it's wierd).

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's not really quote mining in itself. It actually even used to be the norm here (and where I learned it, and still do it even though some have told me it's wierd).

It is an attempt to interrupt a discussion. I am tempted some days to break it down to the word level in response. But I have better things to do.

 

[Balthazzar]

The truth is, I have nothing to lie about. This may or may not be due to me choosing to stay out of the way.

 

[Pawpatrol]

My mother told me she wished I was dead when I was 7

I can't imagine the guilt she probably feels to this day, assuming she's a normal human being. Children can really push a person to the edge.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Also, how many terrorist acts have been committed in the name of homosexuality?????

Hmm..let me check.

Russia has added LGBT activists to the list of terrorists and extremists.

That's all I found for now. What did you find?

You are very wrong about this (not surprised)

The vote to remove homosexuality from the DSM was a unanimous vote and based on the complete lack of evidence that homosexuality was a mental illness.

In early 1973 several petitions for the removal of homosexuality from the DSM were presented to the American Psychiatric Association (APA) nomenclature committee based on the simple fact that the current DSM classification was not based on any evidence and that homosexuality does not even meet the base definition of a mental disorder.

The APA's Nomenclature Committee went through an 11-month process by preparing a report recommending the change in DSM-II. This process was open to any APA member and in the course of the 11 months 78 different experts were called on to present evidence and research. The committee specifically invited most vocal opponents of the change, Charles Socarides, Irving Bieber, and Robert McDevitt, to present research and evidence. While all three attended meetings they presented no research. Instead they chose to complain how the this was a political move not a scientific one. At the end of this process the APA's Council on Research and Development unanimously recommended to the APA board for the deletion of homosexuality from DSM.

Then the APA Board of Trustees again invited , Charles Socarides, Irving Bieber, and Robert McDevitt, to present their case a third time on December 10, 1973. Bieber restated the old theories without presenting data to support them. Socarides and McDevitt complained that the change in classification was motivated by politics, not by scientific studies. Socarides and McDevitt were asked once again to present scientific studies supporting their view of homosexuality as a pathology. They could not produce any. The Board voted to approve the removal of homosexuality from DSM

Socarides and Bieber found a provision in the APA by laws designed to provide some democratic control over the association's corporate life, and then forced a petition demanding a referendum of the Association's membership to vote out the APA's board . Amazingly, those who accused the APA of capitulating to political pressure were now themselves forcing a political maneuver and using a loophole in a provision for non-scientific matters to accomplish their end.

Most of the APA membership thought the referendum was some sort of bad joke and refused to even vote in the proceedings. the vote you are talking about was this vote

Do you have a source other than "trust me bro"?

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members at its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with ‘sexual orientation disturbance’ for those people ‘in conflict with’ their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM." Source

 

[Eddi]

Hmm..let me check.

Russia has added LGBT activists to the list of terrorists and extremists.

That's all I found for now. What did you find?

Russia doing that is an example of gay people being persecuted, not of gay people being terrorists

 

[Argentbear]

Hmm..let me check.

Russia has added LGBT activists to the list of terrorists and extremists.

That's all I found for now. What did you find?

So you found zero. what a surprise

Do you have a source other than "trust me bro"?

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members at its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with ‘sexual orientation disturbance’ for those people ‘in conflict with’ their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM." Source

If you were actually interested in the facts you could start with the people who were actually there and who participated in the committee meetings

American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History by Jack Dresher and Joseph Merlino
Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis by Ronald Bayer
Changing American Psychiatry A Personal Perspective Melvin Sabshin
Out of DSM: Depathologizing Homosexuality by Jack Drescher

Do I think for even a moment you will actually read what happened from the people who were there. Nope.

The person in your link also wrote The History of Gay Liberation where he cites Bayer and correctly states: "In December 1973, the APA board voted unanimously (with two abstentions) to remove homosexuality from the DSM. But psychoanalysts who objected to that move forced the APA to hold a referendum on the removal of the APA board and the election of a new board."

 

[Pawpatrol]

Wait, do you think it's based on their personal opinions rather than a thorough analysis of the available facts

If the latter was devoid of opinion, there wouldn't be a vote, or even a discussion like this.

LOL No, that's not how it's done. Do you think doctors glean their data on mental health issues via "media wars" and "brainwashing?" That's absurdly wrong.

Let me ask you instead, what made doctors previously consider homosexuality a mental health issue?

You're still flattering yourself. Who do you think you are to be giving me unsolicited, condescending advice?

Does one need a certificate to do that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If the latter was devoid of opinion, there wouldn't be a vote, or even a discussion like this.

Let me ask you instead, what made doctors previously consider homosexuality a mental health issue?

It was probably the Bible that inspired that . There is no psychological evidence of it being a mental health issue.

Does one need a certificate to do that?

It is a foolish act to take when you are so easily shown to be wrong.

 

[Argentbear]

If the latter was devoid of opinion, there wouldn't be a vote, or even a discussion like this.

Let me ask you instead, what made doctors previously consider homosexuality a mental health issue?

It was cultural and lacked any supporting evidence. That was the main reason for the protests in the APA. and when the nomenclature committee went hunting for evidence that homosexuality was a mental pathology they couldn't find any.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It was cultural and lacked any supporting evidence. That was the main reason for the protests in the APA. and when the nomenclature committee went hunting for evidence that homosexuality was a mental pathology they couldn't find any.

Yup. Even Freud, for all his crackpot ideas, didn't even see anything wrong with it. The APA couldn't find any real reason to include in the DSM and no reason to consider it an illness so it was removed.