Homosexual is about genetic or hormons, or what ?

[Godobeyer]

hello all

could hormons effect on genetics , or inverse ?

is the hormons had big rule in this issue (homosexual) ?

iF it's about genetic , so if gay birth baby from woman , or lesbien brith baby from man , so definitly their babies will be homosexual too ? (i mean generation)

someone tell me it's about orient from brain , so it's about hormons then ?

for your opinion , why most of religions of world forbid the homosexual , or don't agree with?

 

[Laika]

I think it is (edit: primarily but not solely) to do with Hormones or Psychology. Whilst the defence of LGBTQ Rights is stronger when it appeals to 'genetic' differences because it is an appeal to an unchanging "human nature" as the source of human/natural rights, I am sceptical of how much can be attributed to Genetics. I would say that it is unlikely that it is either hormones or genetics, and that it is probably a combination of the two rather than one or the other. This is more of a Far Left ideological bias against genetics in general as a potentially pseudo-scientific means to defend social inequalities as "natural" or "innate" differences (e.g. 19th and 20th century "Scientific Racism"), rather than specifically to do with sexuality.

However, sexuality is part of our "animal" nature and it is not possible to "cure" homosexuality or bisexuality because it psychologically goes far deeper than the purely rational centres of the brain that can regulate behaviour. Saying "don't be gay" or "don't be bi" is like saying "don't eat"; it is ultimately harmful to a person to coerce them into denying their own sexual needs. For that reason, I'd say that abstiance is unhealthy and along with Sigmund Freud and Wilhelm Reich that sexual repression is a major cause of nuerosis and compulsions.

The assumption that hetrosexuality is the norm, is to do with the socio-economic role of the family as an institution to regulate sexual activity. We concieve of sex as primarily driven by procreation, rather than pleasure and the fulfillment of a psychological drive for intimacy, and so emphasise hetrosexual-procreative relationships as the social norm. The evidence we do have supports a much more fluid interpretation of sexual orientation without clear dividing lines between hetrosexual, bisexual and homosexual. (See Kinsey Scale). Sexual Orientation does change over time as well. I'd say that current definitions of Sexual Orientation refer to who a person is likely to be married to, rather than who they sleep with. Hetrosexuals do have same sex relationships and attraction, but the way our society works they continue to be considered hetrosexual because it fits in the box better.

 

[SomeRandom]

Both?
And I think many religions simply wanted to emphasize progeny in order to have more in their flock to carry on religious traditions. So they put heterosexuality as something to be desired. Or maybe there were just a lot of busy bodies writing the religious laws down, I don't know.

 

[rusra02]

While there may be many contributing factors, I think it is primarily caused by what we think about and allow our minds to dwell on. All sorts of wrong conduct come from our own imperfect and wayward desires (Matthew 15:19) That being the case, people with homosexual tendencies are not doomed to follow that lifestyle, any more than an alcoholic is doomed to be a drunk. Coming to know the true God and how he feels about homosexuality can be a strong motivation to reject such wrong conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

 

[SomeRandom]

While there may be many contributing factors, I think it is primarily caused by what we think about and allow our minds to dwell on. All sorts of wrong conduct come from our own imperfect and wayward desires (Matthew 15:19) That being the case, people with homosexual tendencies are not doomed to follow that lifestyle, any more than an alcoholic is doomed to be a drunk. Coming to know the true God and how he feels about homosexuality can be a strong motivation to reject such wrong conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

Just curious, what exactly do you consider to be "rejecting such wrong conduct" in relation to people with "homosexual tendencies" and further I'd ask do you think that is in keeping with the Golden rule? As in would you prefer someone asked the same of you with such an important and intrinsic aspect of your identity? I mean alcoholics are by definition addicts. That is they are literally addicted to an outside man made substance, for better or worse (ie functioning alcoholics.) Sexual attraction, however, is very much intertwined with one's sexual identity.
I'm not like having a go at you or trying to shout you down or whatever. I'm simply baffled by this mindset and wish to understand it further.

 

[Godobeyer]

I think it is (edit: primarily but not solely) to do with Hormones or Psychology. Whilst the defence of LGBTQ Rights is stronger when it appeals to 'genetic' differences because it is an appeal to an unchanging "human nature" as the source of human/natural rights, I am sceptical of how much can be attributed to Genetics. I would say that it is unlikely that it is either hormones or genetics, and that it is probably a combination of the two rather than one or the other. This is more of a Far Left ideological bias against genetics in general as a potentially pseudo-scientific means to defend social inequalities as "natural" or "innate" differences (e.g. 19th and 20th century "Scientific Racism"), rather than specifically to do with sexuality.

However, sexuality is part of our "animal" nature and it is not possible to "cure" homosexuality or bisexuality because it psychologically goes far deeper than the purely rational centres of the brain that can regulate behaviour. Saying "don't be gay" or "don't be bi" is like saying "don't eat"; it is ultimately harmful to a person to coerce them into denying their own sexual needs. For that reason, I'd say that abstiance is unhealthy and along with Sigmund Freud and Wilhelm Reich that sexual repression is a major cause of nuerosis and compulsions.

The assumption that hetrosexuality is the norm, is to do with the socio-economic role of the family as an institution to regulate sexual activity. We concieve of sex as primarily driven by procreation, rather than pleasure and the fulfillment of a psychological drive for intimacy, and so emphasise hetrosexual-procreative relationships as the social norm. The evidence we do have supports a much more fluid interpretation of sexual orientation without clear dividing lines between hetrosexual, bisexual and homosexual. (See Kinsey Scale). Sexual Orientation does change over time as well. I'd say that current definitions of Sexual Orientation refer to who a person is likely to be married to, rather than who they sleep with. Hetrosexuals do have same sex relationships and attraction, but the way our society works they continue to be considered hetrosexual because it fits in the box better.

I know someone "gay" here in RF wanted to straight man , but he did not succeed .

so if it's about just hormons , so why the scientists did not invent medical treatement to hormons for the homosexuals who want to be hetersexual (straight) ?


btw i know two of my friends (men) acts like girls in past ,then they by time (i don't know if they get drugs or treatement) , they become straight

 

[Jainarayan]

I think it is primarily caused by what we think about and allow our minds to dwell on. All sorts of wrong conduct come from our own imperfect and wayward desires (Matthew 15:19)

Bull****. Why, by Thor's ginger beard would I want to be turned on by men if I had no choice? I can no more control my physiologic response to an attractive man than I can exist without breathing. I don't choose to get turned on by men any more than you choose to get turned on by women. It's a reaction and feeling I don't even think about. It has nothing to do with my "own imperfect and wayward desires ".

 

[Jainarayan]

I know someone "gay" here in RF wanted to straight man , but he did not succeed .

Because it's not something you can change. You can choose to be celibate, and you can enter into a sham marriage with a woman, but it won't change the fact that the man is attracted to other men.

 

[Demonslayer]

hello all

could hormons effect on genetics , or inverse ?

is the hormons had big rule in this issue (homosexual) ?

iF it's about genetic , so if gay birth baby from woman , or lesbien brith baby from man , so definitly their babies will be homosexual too ? (i mean generation)

someone tell me it's about orient from brain , so it's about hormons then ?

for your opinion , why most of religions of world forbid the homosexual , or don't agree with?

Ask the same questions about heterosexuality and you'll have your answer.

If you think it's a choice, please describe to me the circumstances around the day you chose to be straight. Was it a difficult, conscious decision? Did you labor over which way to choose?

 

[Parsimony]

I think one of the big factors is epigenetics, though I admittedly am not very read-up on the origins of homosexuality. I think some kind of correlation has been found between the number of male children that a woman has and the likelihood of each child being gay (the older males being less likely to be gay and the younger ones being more likely to be gay). The explanation being that a woman's body produces more female hormones during each pregnancy, affecting the way that the fetus' brain develops. I'm not sure how well-supported that is, though.

 

[Aštra’el]

Every healthy human being is born with the potential to become bisexual or advance towards either end of the grand spectrum of human sexuality (homosexual/ heterosexual). Over time, our choices, our thoughts, social life, surrounding culture... and the quality and nature of our experiences and especially our sexual experiences all contribute towards our sexual orientation. These things have the most impact on us in our teens and twenties, but as humans grow older it seems it becomes more difficult (though not impossible) for humans to alter their sexual orientation. The minds of younger generations are far more impressionable and tend to be more open to exploring and enjoying new things. Younger generations tend to get better sex, and tend to have more opportunities to explore our sexuality and shape our sexual desires.

Sexual orientation is not determined at birth, and it is not some single choice that a human makes along its journey of life. It is the result of a grand combination of things.​

 

[jonathan180iq]

While there may be many contributing factors, I think it is primarily caused by what we think about and allow our minds to dwell on. All sorts of wrong conduct come from our own imperfect and wayward desires (Matthew 15:19) That being the case, people with homosexual tendencies are not doomed to follow that lifestyle, any more than an alcoholic is doomed to be a drunk. Coming to know the true God and how he feels about homosexuality can be a strong motivation to reject such wrong conduct. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

Isn't the origin of that wrong conduct something that was bestowed upon us by an omniscient being allowing his first fruits to become soiled with knowledge of good and evil? (Genesis 3:6)

Aren't we all ultimately doomed to follow our sinful lifestyles? (Romans 3:23)

Since even angry thoughts equate to murder before the eyes of god, and since everyone sins in this manner, doesn't that mean you're just as much of a sinner as the alcoholic homosexual who eats pork every night?

(1 John 3:15)
(Ephesians 5:18)
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
(Deuteronomy 14:8)

Given the hypocrisy of the arguments you're making, do you really have the authority to pass judgement on the social or cultural behavior of anyone, seeing as you yourself are a sinner before the God of Judgement?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

hello all

could hormons effect on genetics , or inverse ?

is the hormons had big rule in this issue (homosexual) ?

iF it's about genetic , so if gay birth baby from woman , or lesbien brith baby from man , so definitly their babies will be homosexual too ? (i mean generation)

someone tell me it's about orient from brain , so it's about hormons then ?

for your opinion , why most of religions of world forbid the homosexual , or don't agree with?

Best to explain it. My mother and father are straight. I am lesbian. My ex is lesbian. Her two natually born children are straight. I know a mother from PLAG support groupnI go to sometimes. She just found out almost twenty years later her son was not only gay, in our part of the world but straight as in he is transgender.

None have anything to do with the genetics of our parents. I didnt have a preposition to be lesbian. And so on.

I do believe it is biological when it comes to physiological and mental feelings. I also think its environmental because our identity is shaped by how we are raised etc. For example, I used to practice ASLwith Deaf (not deaf) individuals. Some people said they identified first with their Deaf community and then second as a philipino, chinese, african american.

Same way with the gay community. Environment has a lot of influence on how we see ourselves and That is part of our sexual orientation.

There are a lot of factors involved in any persons identity and physical and mental characterics that make it up whether one is straight, gay, Deaf, deaf, tall, short, whatever.

Also.

Why do religions see it wrong? They dont. It is the culture. For example, UU and SGI are religions but they dont see anything wrong with differences in sexual orientation. However, one person may be from India and another from down south Georgia, and because of their worldview and ubringing, that, inturn, influences how they see others.

I mean, in my faith, everyone is a Buddha. Everyone is by being a Bodhisattva of the Earth. Yet, in the Buddha's sutras, in "his culture", only men received the highest spiritual wisdom. Its the same in Christianity, only men seem to inherit the rights to another persons spiritual growth regardless the denomni. I assume in the Quran is the same? Belief in God isnt "depended" on thr Haijib one wears but its in the culture and practice to where it based on the reasons in the Quran. Many religions have that.

Anyway, its cultural and traditon. No religious text I read says that homosexuality (having GBLTQ sexual orientation) is wrong. They knew nothing about it. They saw sexual impurity based on lust and not the love of God and they were punished for that. Has nothing to donwith sexual orientation.

Nam.

 

[Laika]

so if it's about just hormons , so why the scientists did not invent medical treatement to hormons for the homosexuals who want to be hetersexual (straight) ?

Sadly, they have tried. it wasn't until the 1970's that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental disorder. A mother wrote to Freud in 1935 concerning her son's homosexuality and he replied with this letter;

I gather from your letter that your son is a homosexual. I am most impressed by the fact that you do not mention this term yourself in your information about him. May I question you why you avoid it? Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime –and a cruelty, too. If you do not believe me, read the books of Havelock Ellis.


By asking me if I can help [your son], you mean, I suppose, if I can abolish homosexuality and make normal heterosexuality take its place. The answer is, in a general way we cannot promise to achieve it. In a certain number of cases we succeed in developing the blighted germs of heterosexual tendencies, which are present in every homosexual; in the majority of cases it is no more possible. It is a question of the quality and the age of the individual. The result of treatment cannot be predicted.

What analysis can do for your son runs in a different line. If he is unhappy, neurotic, torn by conflicts, inhibited in his social life, analysis may bring him harmony, peace of mind, full efficiency, whether he remains homosexual or gets changed.

The honest truth is that I don't think we really know, but psychartric practice has shown that it doesn't work because it is so deeply root in our psyche. it therefore both very rare that it can be changed and it causes immense harm. This is without touching the question as to whether we should actually try to convert homosexuals and bisexuals into hetrosexuals. It is incredably divisive because it is so intimate about who we can and cannot love.

Edit: there was actually an example recently where a Christian gay conversion clinic closed down because they admitted they were wrong. there was also an apology;

"I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn't change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents. I am sorry that there were times I didn't stand up to people publicly 'on my side' who called you names like sodomite — or worse. I am sorry that I, knowing some of you so well, failed to share publicly that the gay and lesbian people I know were every bit as capable of being amazing parents as the straight people that I know."

 

[Father Heathen]

Give it a few months, and the same people will ask the same rhetorical questions or make the same inane assertions regarding the topic. Nonetheless, it's still important to inform and educate for the sake of others who might have a genuine interest in learning and understanding.

 

[rusra02]

Just curious, what exactly do you consider to be "rejecting such wrong conduct" in relation to people with "homosexual tendencies" and further I'd ask do you think that is in keeping with the Golden rule? As in would you prefer someone asked the same of you with such an important and intrinsic aspect of your identity? I mean alcoholics are by definition addicts. That is they are literally addicted to an outside man made substance, for better or worse (ie functioning alcoholics.) Sexual attraction, however, is very much intertwined with one's sexual identity.
I'm not like having a go at you or trying to shout you down or whatever. I'm simply baffled by this mindset and wish to understand it further.

I think rejecting wrong conduct is simply that; abstaining from wrong conduct. I would prefer someone showed me what the Creator's feelings are about some conduct I may find pleasurable but that displeases God, rather than tell me what I may want to hear but is false. I believe we all desire things that we should not because we are sinful and imperfect. (Romans 5:12) Rather than dwell on those wrong desires, I believe we should change our thinking to accept God's standards. (1 Peter 1:14-16) This applies not just to homosexual acts but to all types of immoral conduct, including fornication and adultery.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I think rejecting wrong conduct is simply that; abstaining from wrong conduct. I would prefer someone showed me what the Creator's feelings are about some conduct I may find pleasurable but that displeases God, rather than tell me what I may want to hear but is false. I believe we all desire things that we should not because we are sinful and imperfect. (Romans 5:12) Rather than dwell on those wrong desires, I believe we should change our thinking to accept God's standards. (1 Peter 1:14-16) This applies not just to homosexual acts but to all types of immoral conduct, including fornication and adultery.

What makes certain types of conduct or desire wrong? What is the standard for right and wrong?

Is it your god just because you say it's your god?

I say that Vishnu is the standard for right and wrong - now what?

 

[rusra02]

What makes certain types of conduct or desire wrong? What is the standard for right and wrong?

Is it your god just because you say it's your god?

I say that Vishnu is the standard for right and wrong - now what?

So the matter does rest on the question; "Who is the true God?" Jehovah challenges the false gods to prove their godship. Jehovah proves he is the true God by foretelling what he will do and then bringing about what he prophesies. (Isaiah 46:9,10 and 43:9) None of the false gods can prove their godship.

 

[suncowiam]

I never cared what its about.

If its genetics, ok, so what?
If its a choice, ok, so what?

(X) Don't give a squat.

 

[Revoltingest]

I voted for <genetics> because even though I'm only speculating, this option allowed uncertainty with its "I think" prefix.
It could also be due to fetal development.
The one thing I'm confident of is that orientation is an inherent condition, but somewhat mutable by environment.