Homosexuality and Homosexual Marriages: Why do Christians Care?

[ADigitalArtist]

Very well then, since you cannot stop misrepresenting everything I say, will not take back the unjustifiable insults which even if true you have no way what so ever to even know it, and since I see no evidence that even once you run out of insults and misrepresentations you will ever post a meaningful or challenging argument I decline to have a discussion with you about homosexuality. If you ever hope to discuss another subject with me then you ought to stop responding to me and take a nap or something for a while.

Sorry, not going to pussyfoot around that you don't actually care about the homosexual community, you're just looking for a conceit to tell them to stop being homosexual. Even though none of your sources which actually do try to 'better defend the homosexual community' suggest such a thing is appropriate, possible, ethical or in their best interest. Further, you put HIV on an exaggerated and outdated pedestal in order to shame and scare homosexuals which doesn't work and is disingenuous.
If telling you what you already know about what you're doing is an insult then maybe that says something about you. If you want to discuss it sometime maybe find a quiet corner and admit you're looking for a reason to disparage homosexuality because of religious leanings, and are therefore not liking at their actual health concerns critically.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To hate and ridicule others is not in my Bible

Even god himself uses "angry and jealous" to describe himself. It does become hatred when you keep telling people they are going to Hell, and the book that teaches of that Hell says many different sorts of people must die.

The teachins is that homosexuality is a sin. It also teaches that we are all sinners. As I said the teachings is not to hate and ridicule others.

It does say homosexuality is a sin - a sin that must be punished by means of public execution.

Then be obidient and start killing them.

I'm not the one who follows the book that commands it.

Are you qualified to throw the first stone?

I Am without sin.

Right, but those who claim Christians do these unChristian things are doing just that.

Yes, and that is my problem. It is the Christianly thing to do, c

It did not include parts, it omitted some.

It did include many parts, including the parts giving them the belief that society is becoming weak, sinful, and godless because we aren't so strict and harsh.

It is hate when the person is ridiculed.

Ridicule is not the only way of expressing hatred.

The Bible says homosexual acts are sinful. Why is it wrong for us to say it is?

It leads to violence, suicide, drug abuse, depression and anxiety, self-esteem/image problems, and a host of other problems.

I said just the opposite. I said my church would not ridiculle you.

Perhaps ridiculed, but there are other ways to make someone feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.

I also said I would not blame you if you did not want to ever attend church again.

At least you're understanding. It's not often such courtesy is extended.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your brush is still too wide. You can't use a personal experience as a typical example.

I can assure you, my experience was not isolated or rare. Many times they don't even make it out alive.

You attended a church that did not follow the teachings of the Bible.

Yes, they did, including the part where Jesus said not a single word of the law is to be relaxed.

True Christianity is not a bane.

It is a bane when they try to pass laws that allow discrimination, denial of rights, and a myriad of social problems - death for homosexuals would be one of those problems if we truly followed the Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You mean other than the lawsuits?

Lawsuits like those are about past conduct. Someone who has been sued for discriminating against LGBT customers could close their shop tomorrow and never have to deal with another same-sex couple ordering a wedding cake ever again.

Wait.

So the Supreme Court's decision should force these bakery owners to either change their profession or violate their beliefs?

Absolutely. I have no problem with prohibiting discrimination by businesses in the provision of goods and services.

You don't see anything wrong with the Supreme Court forcing people to make that decision?

I don't see anything wrong with it at all.

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Do you not understand how that would hurt their business? What if a third of their sales are for wedding cakes?

There are any number of industries out there where business owners never have to deal with same-sex weddings at all. Some are even more profitable than the wedding cake business.

So, what you are saying is, the Supreme Court's decision forces bakery owners who have religious views regarding homosexuality to either change professions, severely hinder their sales or violate their religious beliefs?

I'm saying that businesses who sell to the public are prohibited from discriminating in the provision of goods and services. If someone feels that they can't participate in their industry without behaving in a discriminatory way, it's up to them to figure out a solution.

You don't see any problem with the Supreme Court forcing people to make this decision?

Absolutely none.

And lose out on a bunch of business.

It's not especially onerous to require businesses to carry on business in a non-discriminatory way.

I have no more sympathy for a baker that refuses to sell a wedding cake to a same-sex couple than I do for a landlord who refuses to rent an apartment to an interracial couple.

Why shouldn't homosexual couples just go to another bakery?

Why should they have to?

 

[Watchmen]

The Executive Order.

Duh. Do you know why the order was made?

 

[1robin]

gay teen suicides Christianity - Google Search

That statement was made to another person if I remember correctly. Add to that that you did not say why whatever you linked to was relevant, was true, or what your conclusion is that the information at your link was supposed to demonstrate. Added to your not posting a challenging argument, your occasional unjustified sarcasm, I have to add that your not even putting in more than a token effort. Provide all those things I said you should have provided above or I can not properly evaluate whatever your link leads to.

 

[1robin]

When people can't defend their position, they resort to insulting comments. Keep up the good work

I appreciate the sentiments, your preaching to the quire. What you stated is unfortunately the sad truth. I hope SkepticalThinker posts her arguments for me in the near future, I think my arguments are better but she at least can give me a challenge. I also hope others can view her posts so as to give them some better ideas. Homosexuals are ill served indeed if they must rely on most of those in this thread to defend them.

 

[columbus]

Homosexuals are ill served indeed if they must rely on most of those in this thread to defend them.

Fortunately we don't have to do that. We've got a voting majority and SCOTUS doing that as well.
Tom

 

[1robin]

It is quite coherent indeed. To not see that is to show a grave misunderstanding, or rather, a non-understanding of what homosexuality is and is not.

I am not debating homosexual orientation. I am debating homosexual behavior and every adult knows exactly what that is. Oh, and yes what I responded to was incoherent whether or not I understand homosexual orientation. I has recently dawned on me that you put almost no effort into anything you post. It seems your more troll than defender of homosexuality. I cannot even recall a bad argument you have made lately. However, don't worry. Actions on my part that I say are not long off are sometimes delayed but almost never suspended. So by all means keep this up until I finally do concerning you as I recently have with your fellow troll in this thread.

 

[1robin]

Sounds to me like we need to start actually teaching sex ed in high school, rather than pretend there is a possible way to make teens not have it.

I am not sure how I feel about teaching sex education in schools. It seems to be a modern trend that parents (especially bad ones) try to get the state to raise the children they won't. Liberals are taking away the rolls that parents and the Church should have and giving them to the state of all things. And then they double down on their own stupidity by wondering why everything went so wrong. I will tell you the one thing I know would prevent virtually all of the problems that plague us in this context, obedience to the bible. It is certainly not easy but it always works. However I have not really thought much about sex education in schools. I hope you are not trying to rationalize the apocalyptic devastation homosexual behavior causes by impugning a high school class. You know despite my own self, I think my response here was pretty good.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I will tell you the one thing I know would prevent virtually all of the problems that plague us in this context, obedience to the bible.

That would mean slavery and genocide.

I am not sure how I feel about teaching sex education in schools.

Very few parents teach their children anything about sex, and someone has to teach them accurate and reliable information about it.

I hope you are not trying to rationalize the apocalyptic devastation homosexual behavior causes

"Apocalyptic devastation?"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Absolutely. I have no problem with prohibiting discrimination by businesses in the provision of goods and services.

And the way to do that is to remember something quite simple -- a "business" is not the person providing the goods or services. These are two separate things.

Now, one has to admit that if I don't want to talk to you, I don't have to. But if I set myself up as a business, trying to earn money through my interactions with others, getting a license to operate, paying public taxes on what the business earns (out of which I may take a stipend), something quite fundamental has changed.

 

[1robin]

Sorry, not going to pussyfoot around that you don't actually care about the homosexual community, you're just looking for a conceit to tell them to stop being homosexual. Even though none of your sources which actually do try to 'better defend the homosexual community' suggest such a thing is appropriate, possible, ethical or in their best interest. Further, you put HIV on an exaggerated and outdated pedestal in order to shame and scare homosexuals which doesn't work and is disingenuous.
If telling you what you already know about what you're doing is an insult then maybe that says something about you. If you want to discuss it sometime maybe find a quiet corner and admit you're looking for a reason to disparage homosexuality because of religious leanings, and are therefore not liking at their actual health concerns critically.

Very well, you are ignored. You can keep replying with drivel as I am sure you will, but at least I will not have to see it any longer. Do homosexuals a favor and stop ineffectually defending them.

 

[Jainarayan]

That statement was made to another person if I remember correctly. Add to that that you did not say why whatever you linked to was relevant, was true, or what your conclusion is that the information at your link was supposed to demonstrate. Added to your not posting a challenging argument, your occasional unjustified sarcasm, I have to add that your not even putting in more than a token effort. Provide all those things I said you should have provided above or I can not properly evaluate whatever your link leads to.

Those were a lot of words that say nothing. It doesn't matter whom your comments were addressed to. This is an open forum for all to participate in. You don't get to say who can respond to whom.

You know damn well what those links are. Stop playing games. If you can't see that those links answer your assertion that Christianity has never had a detrimental effect on gays, then I can't help you. I'm not playing your word games.

 

[Jainarayan]

I am debating homosexual behavior

There's nothing to debate.

And do you really want to call another member a troll?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Very well, you are ignored. You can keep replying with drivel as I am sure you will, but at least I will not have to see it any longer. Do homosexuals a favor and stop ineffectually defending them.

Considering you're already woefully behind the times in a vanishingly small outdated viewpoint I'm not too concerned about not convincing you, or how well I effectively defend them. Since you were just going to pretend that any argument wasn't enough to be compelling because you're lying to yourself about why you're making those arguments. So, nothing of value is really lost by you not interacting with me. For me anyway.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

homosexual life spans are significantly lower than heterosexual life spans, nothing wrong with the higher rates of sexual assault, nothing wrong with massively higher rates of promiscuity, higher rates of unsafe sex, and higher rates of adultery within the homosexual community, etc

My point

Straight people do this just as much as LGBT community. Homosexuality has nothing to do with behavior.

Why single out the homosexual community?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And the way to do that is to remember something quite simple -- a "business" is not the person providing the goods or services. These are two separate things.

I don't agree with that. A business can be a sole proprietorship where the business is literally the owner. Regardless, the distinction shouldn't matter with something so basic as "don't discriminate."

Now, one has to admit that if I don't want to talk to you, I don't have to. But if I set myself up as a business, trying to earn money through my interactions with others, getting a license to operate, paying public taxes on what the business earns (out of which I may take a stipend), something quite fundamental has changed.

Indeed.

Something stuck with me from a prep course I took before my professional practice and ethics exam for my engineering licence: the instructor pointed out that people who are in licensed professions benefit by artificial scarcity. By keeping unlicensed people from practicing engineering, regulators allow licensed engineers to charge higher fees.

In exchange, licensed engineers have responsibilities and duties above and beyond those of just anybody. They have a duty to uphold higher ethical standards and to safeguard public welfare.

I take a similar attitude toward any licensed profession or business. Even if we're only talking about a business license, there's still a societal obligation that goes with it.

 

[omega2xx]

Even god himself uses "angry and jealous" to describe himself. It does become hatred when you keep telling people they are going to Hell, and the book that teaches of that Hell says many different sorts of people must die.

Since it is the truth, it is the loving thing to do.

It does say homosexuality is a sin - a sin that must be punished by means of public execution.

Punishment is never mandatory. this is clearly seen when Jesus did not demand the woman caught in adultery not be stoned. God put limits on what man could do. They could not take 2 eyes for one eye.

I'm not the one who follows the book that commands it.

Have you ever seen a Christian demand a homosexual be stoned?

I Am without sin.

How do you know tht?

Yes, and that is my problem. It is the Christianly thing to do, c

It did include many parts, including the parts giving them the belief that society is becoming weak, sinful, and godless because we aren't so strict and harsh.

Ridicule is not the only way of expressing hatred.

It leads to violence, suicide, drug abuse, depression and anxiety, self-esteem/image problems, and a host of other problems.

Perhaps ridiculed, but there are other ways to make someone feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.

At least you're understanding. It's not often such courtesy is extended.

In over 40 years in conservative churches I have never heard a sermon condemning homosexuals. It is mentioned occasionally that God considers it a sin. That is what the Bible says, that is what we consider the truth and Christians should always be concerned about the truth. So how do you know homosexual acts are not a sin? To be properly educated, children need to hear both sides and in our public school system, which is a disgrace, will only hear one side.

 

[omega2xx]

I can assure you, my experience was not isolated or rare. Many times they don't even make it out alive.

That is not typical and you know it.

Yes, they did, including the part where Jesus said not a single word of the law is to be relaxed.

Where did He say that?

It is a bane when they try to pass laws that allow discrimination, denial of rights, and a myriad of social problems - death for homosexuals would be one of those problems if we truly followed the Bible.

[/QUOTE]

It is not bane unless it is put into law and just the opposite has happened.