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Homosexuality and religion

Sea Monkey

Pickle Juicer!
Sorta. For myself, I'd distinguish between a homosexual, and a homosexual act. But I think I understand your position.



I'm not sure where the 'proud of it' part comes from. People generally have sex with those they are attracted to, so I would generally see those participating in male on male sex as homosexual.

But I think there are exceptions. As I said earlier, my definition would be more around their sense of attraction. You might be revolted by homosexuality, but perform it if it was a way to protect yourself in prison. Or if it was a way to feed yourself.

From what I remember about the Theroux doco, the attitude was much more mercenary. It was more akin to having a neutral attitude towards homosexual acts, and doing it purely for the 'easy' money. I suspect there were some bisexual components to it, to be honest.



Well...sure. I wasn't arguing that someone who chooses to have sex with males of their own volition and for no external reason isn't gay, since I would assume there is a sexual attraction, or at the very least curiosity. I am more of the opinion that it's possible to perform a homosexual act, but not actually be homosexual.
It is possible I believe that would be called being bisexual and or bicurious. I do not have a problem with homosexuality. I believe the hatred of gay's from some religion's stems from a "not accepting difference's” I believe that is were the religion's were created by a few bigot men. I am not religious.
 

RJ50

Active Member
Christian bigots use the Bible as an excuse for their bigotry, but if they weren't religious they would probably still be bigots.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Buddhism has no laws against homosexuality, Hinduism, Sikhism, the ancient Greek and Egyptian religions, pretty much every religion that doesn't worship the "one true god"...
That's not entirely true of Buddhism. Like Christianity, there are a spectrum of opinions.

One aspect of the Noble Eightfold Path is "right action". The Buddhist denominations I've encountered generally consider abstaining from "sexual misconduct" to be part of this. Some Buddhist groups consider homosexual acts to be "misconduct"; others don't.

Like explaining gravity to a chicken... Anyone that has sex with someone of the same sex is not a heterosexual IMO, whatever the reasoning behind it.
Would you say that a gay man who had sex with a woman before he came out is actually bi?
 

Sea Monkey

Pickle Juicer!
That's not entirely true of Buddhism. Like Christianity, there are a spectrum of opinions.

One aspect of the Noble Eightfold Path is "right action". The Buddhist denominations I've encountered generally consider abstaining from "sexual misconduct" to be part of this. Some Buddhist groups consider homosexual acts to be "misconduct"; others don't.


Would you say that a gay man who had sex with a woman before he came out is actually bi?

I would say that man is probably bi and that he does prefer men though.
 

ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
That, however, is only true if we take as a premise that homosexual sex is inherently sinful for some reason.

Sure, there are religious authorities (not only in Catholicism) who hold just such a view. However, I can't help but feel that it is a terrible mistake to even consider such a notion. It betrays some combination of serious ignorance of what homosexuality truly is and serious disrespect for the inherent rights of homosexuals as full-fledged human beings.

It isn't even well supported by a literal Biblical reading.

I have no doubt whatsoever that such a view will eventually be abandoned, say in 20 years from now. And none too soon, either.

LuisDantas, do you believe that the Catholic Church will change their views on homosexual sex within 20 years from now? I personally don't believe they will as I don't believe the Catholic Church has ever changed a doctrine.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
LuisDantas, do you believe that the Catholic Church will change their views on homosexual sex within 20 years from now? I personally don't believe they will as I don't believe the Catholic Church has ever changed a doctrine.

Kinda sorta. They're still officially not fond of schismatics, but the previous Pope set that aside to have cordial meetings with Queen Elizabeth, the head of a "schismatic" church, the Church of England.

I think 20 years is enough time for the Catholic Church's approach to homosexuality to become like their approach to divorce: policing it for their own members but not interfering with non-Catholics (beyond occasional bellyaching about how it's bad without actually doing anything to try to deprive people of legal rights).
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
I've just been waiting to get to the end of this thread, reading through it all, to say something and I get here on the last page and, dammit, 9-10ths Penguin already snuck it in.

Really though, this whole things just sounds stupid to me. You know how many homosexuals have sex with someone of the opposite sex before they come out as gay? It doesn't mean they are heterosexual during that time, nor does it mean that they are definitely bisexual the moment they admit their orientation to the same sex either.

Orientation has to do with who you are attracted to on many levels. Not just sexually, but emotionally and more. We're talking about "clicking" with another person. If a man who is heterosexual, has a wife and kids, has always been attracted to women in his life, numerous relationships with women, never been involved with men and men draw no allure for him, ...ends up having sex with another man in prison during some long stint or something...doesn't mean he's suddenly gay or always has been. May just mean he's disturbed and desperate. He may never have imagined what he's just done, he may always be haunted by it. It may be one of those things that he may never want to think about again in his life. But the act itself doesn't make him a homosexual any more than a gay man sleeping with a "girlfriend" at 16y/o made him a heterosexual.

Now, as to pedophilia, there are those in psychological fields that actually contend that it, itself, is an orientation of sorts, separate of hetero or homosexuality. That it is driven more on the age of the child, rather than on the gender. So, it isn't that the person perpetrating the act against the victim is homosexual or heterosexual as much as they are looking for a particular age and the sex of the child happens just to be what it is.

That said, when you are looking at things in a church, now think for a moment, do you have more male priests or female? Do you have more male altar boys or female? On the chances you are going to get a pedophile in the ranks, it just stands to reason that the sex of the most available child is going to be male while the perpetrator is going to be...male.

Now, perhaps there is some draw for some of these guys to go into the church because they do feel "different". Perhaps they do think that by going to "God" that they will be closer to "Him" and "He" will take away these feelings and urges or whatever they are dealing with. Obviously...it doesn't seem to work for some of them huh?

Though, either way, whether you view it from the first perspective of a same sex act itself doesn't make a person a homosexual, or the second where pedophilia may be it's very own thing, it really doesn't necessarily make the perpetrator gay if it is a man who touches a boy.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
LuisDantas, do you believe that the Catholic Church will change their views on homosexual sex within 20 years from now? I personally don't believe they will as I don't believe the Catholic Church has ever changed a doctrine.
Pope John Paul II said "evolution is no longer a hypothesis". The Catholic Church was officially against evolution before that. Sounds like a change in doctrine to me.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Pope John Paul II said "evolution is no longer a hypothesis". The Catholic Church was officially against evolution before that. Sounds like a change in doctrine to me.

Nope. It's not. Thing is,the word 'doctrine' has a specific meaning within the Catholic Church. You're thinking about doctrine in a more generic sense.
I've made the same mistake previously, which is how I know this...!
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
No. It isn't. It's only discrimination if a right is violated. No has the "right" to be married in the eyes of the church. Marriage is a call -- a vocation. People don't just "decide" to get married. God has to call a couple to marriage. Not even heterosexuals have the right to be married.

Civic law is another matter, however.

Actually people do "just decide to get married."

Marrying has nothing to do with a church. Marrying in a church just means an added blessing from that religion.

Gay people have been marrying for many thousands of years, in Egypt, China, several Roman Emperors, American natives, etc.

*
 

dgirl1986

Big Queer Chesticles!
Actually people do "just decide to get married."

Marrying has nothing to do with a church. Marrying in a church just means an added blessing from that religion.

Gay people have been marrying for many thousands of years, in Egypt, China, several Roman Emperors, American natives, etc.

*

Wasnt marriage more of a business transaction in the old days?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
Actually people do "just decide to get married."

Marrying has nothing to do with a church. Marrying in a church just means an added blessing from that religion.

Gay people have been marrying for many thousands of years, in Egypt, China, several Roman Emperors, American natives, etc.

Wasnt marriage more of a business transaction in the old days?

Yes, and somewhere along the line those with religions started adding a religious ceremony/blessing.

*
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Actually people do "just decide to get married."

Marrying has nothing to do with a church. Marrying in a church just means an added blessing from that religion.

Gay people have been marrying for many thousands of years, in Egypt, China, several Roman Emperors, American natives, etc.

*
We were talking about marriage within the context of the church.
 
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