Homosexuality and religious.

[Sheldon]

But homosexuality apart from sexual satisfaction, what purpose does it serve?

Why does who a person is have to serve a purpose? Being gay is part of who some people are, so this is a pretty facile question.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Being gay is who a person is, it's not a means to an end.

It’s a sexual activity. You can love another person of the same sex without having sex with them. So it’s all about the sex.

 

[Sheldon]

So my understanding is it’s basically all about sex nothing else.

Well you're not gay, and are clearly prejudiced against gay people, but that aside, what's wrong with sexual pleasure between consenting adults who love each other, or who don't come to that, plenty of straight people enjoy sex for its own sake after all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why does who a person is have to serve a purpose? Being gay is part of who some people are, so this is a pretty facile question.

Im talking about the act. Baha’u’llah condemns the sexual act not strong relationships between people of the same sex which you can have without the sex. It’s all about the sex.

 

[Sheldon]

Im only stating fact that the continued existence of the human race depends upon the union between a man and a woman which is the position of Baha’u’llah.

Nope, men and women can reproduce without conforming to the rigid and puritanical constraints of religions. Even gay people can reproduce. It's also a false dichotomy fallacy again, since it's not a choice between being straight or being gay.

Homosexuality undermines that because they cannot have children.

What a spectacularly stupid claim, the human population is growing exponentially, so that's manifestly untrue. And for the gazzillionth time, gay people can and do have children.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well you're not gay, and are clearly prejudiced against gay people, but that aside, what's wrong with sexual pleasure between consenting adults who love each other, or who don't come to that, plenty of straight people enjoy sex for its own sake after all.

I have good friends who are gay but they know my beliefs and know I am not homophobic or prejudiced because I treat them respectfully. They know me you don’t. So they are in a better position to know if I am prejudiced or not than you are. You are judging me not knowing me at all. They know me.

 

[F1fan]

I have been taught to be loving to all and that’s how I treat people.

None of this addresses my points about tribalism, but since this is your reply...

Why is that something you need to be taught?

And what are they teaching you that love is?

And if you are being taught to love by a religion, how do you reconcile that the doocrine is prejudiced against one class of people?

 

[Sheldon]

It’s a sexual activity.

No it isn't, it's a part of who a person is, though it can involve sex.

You can love another person of the same sex without having sex with them.

So what?

So it’s all about the sex.

Nope, repeating this won't make it any less false, and you're contradicting yourself as well, but can't see it.

 

[Sheldon]

Im talking about the act. Baha’u’llah condemns the sexual act not strong relationships between people of the same sex which you can have without the sex. It’s all about the sex.

Yes we're all too familiar with the prejudice by now, so what?

 

[Sheldon]

I have good friends who are gay but they know my beliefs and know I am not homophobic or prejudiced because I treat them respectfully.

Your position is manifestly prejudiced against people who happen to be gay.

 

[Sheldon]

You are judging me not knowing me at all.

You've admitted to being prejudiced time and again.

 

[F1fan]

I have good friends who are gay but they know my beliefs and know I am not homophobic or prejudiced because I treat them respectfully. They know me you don’t. So they are in a better position to know if I am prejudiced or not than you are. You are judging me not knowing me at all. They know me.

This topic isn't about you and your relationships with gay people. It is asking why you decided to be a member to a religion that is openly prejudiced against gays, and refuses to adjust their doctrine to more progressive and tolerant attitudes.

 

[F1fan]

Im only stating fact that the continued existence of the human race depends upon the union between a man and a woman which is the position of Baha’u’llah. Homosexuality undermines that because they cannot have children.

Umm, reproduction is far from being a problem. If fact there is a growing concern about too many humans on this planet as climate change becomes more of a problem.

This statement of yours, and I guess baha'u'llah, just illustrates the obsolete set of views your religion has. It could be your rigid hold on these ideas may render your religion obsolete in the near future.

Im talking about the act. Baha’u’llah condemns the sexual act not strong relationships between people of the same sex which you can have without the sex. It’s all about the sex.

Yet another obsolete belief in the 21st century. Baha'u'llah seems to be stuck in 18th century religious prohibitions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

None of this addresses my points about tribalism, but since this is your reply...

Why is that something you need to be taught?

And what are they teaching you that love is?

And if you are being taught to love by a religion, how do you reconcile that the doocrine is prejudiced against one class of people?

In this age love in the Baha’i Faith is taught to be universal. Not based on family, race, nationality or religion but universal love for all humanity believer or not.

So today we see hatred between races, religions and nations because they have been taught from early childhood to only love their religion, race or nationality.

Baha’u’llah teaches that we need to learn universal love. So for a Baha’i love is not one race, religion or nation but all of them. We are taught to love all.

Where do you get the idea from that we are to be prejudiced against one group of people? If you believe that you have been grossly misinformed. Nothing could be further from the truth.

This is what we are taught with regards to how to treat homosexuals.

To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings. (Baha’i Teachings)

to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith.

Therefore, no one should glorify himself over another; no one should manifest pride or superiority toward another; no one should look upon another with scorn and contempt; and no one should deprive or oppress a fellow creature.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This topic isn't about you and your relationships with gay people. It is asking why you decided to be a member to a religion that is openly prejudiced against gays, and refuses to adjust their doctrine to more progressive and tolerant attitudes.

I believe that view is fallacious and that Baha’u’llah’s view that homosexuality is immoral is correct.

 

[dybmh]

homosexual relationship is inconsequential and of no importance to the perpetuation of our species.

That doesn't make the desire evil or immoral.

But homosexuality apart from sexual satisfaction, what purpose does it serve? Sex is not required in order for men or women to have loving relationships. So my understanding is it’s basically all about sex nothing else.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Sex can be a deeply spiritual and useful bonding activity that increases the stability and longevity of the relationship. Stable relationships, in general, in my opinion, support a stable society. Do you disagree?

 

[loverofhumanity]

That doesn't make the desire evil or immoral.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Sex can be a deeply spiritual and useful bonding activity that increases the stability and longevity of the relationship. Stable relationships, in general, in my opinion, support a stable society. Do you disagree?

I think a lot more depends on the spiritual relationship because the sex impulse doesn’t last forever. In its proper use I think it can bring forth beautiful children.

He is indeed a saint who is a saint in youth.

Who is not a saint when ebbing passions faint.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It’s a crucial point because without a man and a woman humanity cannot perpetuate. Whether you believe in homosexuality or not, for the very survival of our race and procreation, the opposite sexes must bond. But homosexuality does not further procreation so it is not essential or a necessity.

There may be sterile couples but homosexuals are 100% infertile permanently. The continuation of humanity depends upon both male and female bonding and homosexual relationship is inconsequential and of no importance to the perpetuation of our species.

I wish you would think just a little bit more deeply. First, to continue the species, is it necessary that EVERYBODY reproduce? I mean, if somebody dies before they get to the years of fertility, is this an affront to God, and likely to doom the species? If somebody is sterile, are they a waste of resources, so that we shouldn't feed them, or let them breathe our air? Certainly, we shouldn't let them engage in sexual activity, according to the views you are espousing, as could it could have no desirable or beneficial outcome. (Since you repeat the "it's all about the sex" line so frequently, we can only presume you think that sex with dropping a litter every time is a waste of time and energy. Surprisingly few people are of your opinion, by the way.)

Now, as to homosexual sex not being a "necessity," most psychologists wouid disagree with you. They would tell you that healthy loving relationship need to include the physical aspects, and that heterosexual couples only had sex at carefully timed intervals when conception is almost assured would usually not last very long. Human sociality is very highly connected to sexuality, and this is most assuredly an evolved trait. Look at sexuality in bonobos (our nearest living relative on earth) for example. Much social behaviour is explicitly sexual, often homosexual, and generally used to maintain peaceful relations within the group.

Just one question. What purpose does homosexuality serve? What does it do for humanity? Marriage between a man and a woman as Baha’u’llah laid down serves the purpose of perpetuating the human race.

But homosexuality apart from sexual satisfaction, what purpose does it serve? Sex is not required in order for men or women to have loving relationships. So my understanding is it’s basically all about sex nothing else.

Now, here, quite a considerable amount of work has been done. I mentioned sociality, above, and here, I will link to a paper by two recognized experts (from Australia and the U.S.) on the subject of
Prosociality and a Sociosexual Hypothesis for the Evolution of Same-Sex Attraction in Humans

But really, you need consider a couple of things that should stop you in your tracks: first is same-sex attraction is clearly biological -- it is widespread (occurring at about the same rate in every culture, relgion, race or demographic you'd care to name around the world), and has a strong additive genetic basis. Second, it occurs more frequently in younger siblings. Men with older brothers are considerably more likely to be gay than men with no older brothers. That clearly indicates some biological reason, whether you can understand what that is or not.

 

[dybmh]

I think a lot more depends on the spiritual relationship because the sex impulse doesn’t last forever. In its proper use I think it can bring forth beautiful children.

Your claim was that homosexual intimacy is all about sex. I propose that's not always true. It sounds like you agree at least that there are outliers. Even if "more depends on the spiritual relationship" that does not exclude sex as an influence to stabilize a relationship.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Im only stating fact that the continued existence of the human race depends upon the union between a man and a woman which is the position of Baha’u’llah. Homosexuality undermines that because they cannot have children.

If that were the only condition, homosexual unions should be respected as much as those where the partners, straight, gay or bi, cannot or choose not to have children. As well as unions where the couple decides to adopt, have a surrogate, use ivf or otherwise.

We're never going to be in a place where homosexual unions endanger continuance of life on earth, for multiple reasons. Primary among them that gay people don't stop straight people from breeding.