Homosexuality and religious.

[F1fan]

I believe that view is fallacious and that Baha’u’llah’s view that homosexuality is immoral is correct.

Why? Giv us facts and a coherent explanation of the facts as to why you believe homosexuality is immoral. I expect more than "I'm just following dogma". You are still making your own judgment, even if that means you surrender any thoughful consideration and are a blind follower.

 

[Vinayaka]

I's far better for society at large to have children raised by loving gay couples (or singles) than by homophobes. Yes certain people can't have children, but probably 10 times as many probably shouldn't be having children. Kids don't need to be indoctrinated with hate.

 

[F1fan]

In this age love in the Baha’i Faith is taught to be universal. Not based on family, race, nationality or religion but universal love for all humanity believer or not.

Notice you ignore sexual orientation. And we know why you ignore this natural trait in humans. So your faith ISN'T universal, it is limited. Your Bahai faith teaches that homosexuality is immoral, and you have adopted this view. You might know gays and engage with them, but you still harbour a prejudical attitude towards them.

So today we see hatred between races, religions and nations because they have been taught from early childhood to only love their religion, race or nationality.

And Bahai is one of these religions who teach to only love heterosexuals. You might push back on this and claim you love all people, but you clearly have admitted to a prejudice against a class of people, and that is judgment. That is conditional love. Your condemnation is used against this class of people. You might insist the prohibition only applies to your members, but you are missing the influence of a global religion's condemnation of gays as supporting other groups and people who are also homophobic. It ends up being passive support for more bigotry.

Baha’u’llah teaches that we need to learn universal love. So for a Baha’i love is not one race, religion or nation but all of them. We are taught to love all.

Universal love does not work when you prejudice against a class of people. The claim is hypocritical and meaningless. If baha'u'llah really thought that, then he was wrong. If your God really has this attitude, then your God is wrong. If you agree with an immoral and intolerant attitude, and make claims of universal love as you prejudice against a class of people, then you are wrong simply because your claims are inconsistent.

Where do you get the idea from that we are to be prejudiced against one group of people? If you believe that you have been grossly misinformed. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I get the idea from you Bahai. I am hearing you Bahai repeat consistently that you condemn gays. You have no choice (after chosing to belong to the religion). You refuse to change the law, claiming you all can't do that (even though you can). None of you have denied that there is a condemnation against gays. If your law was that blue-eyed people could not have sex you all would go along with that law.

This is what we are taught with regards to how to treat homosexuals.

And that you willfully go along with it is your decision. So the prejudice is yours.

To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings. (Baha’i Teachings)

to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith.

Therefore, no one should glorify himself over another; no one should manifest pride or superiority toward another; no one should look upon another with scorn and contempt; and no one should deprive or oppress a fellow creature.

Yet you Bahai are being prejudiced against gays.

Being prejudiced against gays, and then saying you aren't prejucied, is a way to attempt saving face. That this disclaimer exists suggests Baha'u'llah knew this was prejudiced and would be criticized.

It's as if you were in a military unit and you were ordered to kill a grou of civilians, and you were also told that it isn't murder. Why? Because that is what we are saying. That's it. No test in reality. So you murderd the civilans and are brought up on war crimes. You defedn yourself saying you were just following orders, and was told it wasn't murder. But in court this doesn't work because courts hold individuals responsible for their thinking and their acts. You're no different even though you want to hide behind the authority you assume your religion has.

 

[Trailblazer]

Im glad I suffered and all my tests and difficulties eventually led me to find Baha’u’llah. I suffered child sex abuse, was rejected employment because I had epilepsy and have never been able to drive a car because of my disability. Also, at an early age my father rejected and abandoned me saying I was not his son.

All these sufferings became so unbearable I tried to commit suicide 6 times, the last taking 50 sleeping pills. I decided that I didn’t want to live in such a cruel world. Then I found Baha’u’llah. My suffering led me to the Blessed Beauty and for the last 45 years I have been living in joy, happiness and inner peace that none can find.

Now I look back and thank God for that suffering and would welcome it a thousand times again to find Baha’u’llah. I was on death’s door and God raised me up from the dead to a station of such certitude that my faith is unshakeable by any and all and my inner contentment and inner peace what all the treasures in the universe cannot buy.

I could never amply show my gratitude even though it were every second of everyday for centuries, aeons or eternity for the blessing of knowing Baha’u’llah.

And if it took suffering to wake me up from my deep sleep of ignorance then it was worth every atom of pain. Don’t forget birth is suffering to and so is the dying of self and being born in God. Both are very painful but immensely rewarding.

I have also endured untold suffering but most of it came upon me after I became a Baha'i when I was 17 years old, not before. Although I suffered in childhood I don't think I was aware of my suffering. Then after I became a Baha'i I had to deal with the repercussions of my childhood traumas and that took many years of counseling and 12 step programs and homeopathic treatment. Only after that did I start to get more involved in the Faith and realize what I had, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. That did not really start happening until 2013 and I have never looked back once, I just keep moving forward, in spite of the ongoing tests.

 

[Sheldon]

In this age love in the Baha’i Faith is taught to be universal. Not based on family, race, nationality or religion but universal love for all humanity believer or not.

As long as gay people are happy to be discriminated against, that's not love or universal love, that's homophobia. No amount of fake platitudes will change that fact.

 

[Sheldon]

Baha’u’llah teaches that we need to learn universal love. So for a Baha’i love is not one race, religion or nation but all of them. We are taught to love all.

But not gay people, unless they do as your religion's homophobic doctrine demands, and deny who they are.

 

[Sheldon]

To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Bahá'í Teachings. (Baha’i Teachings)

to regard those with a homosexual orientation with prejudice or disdain would be against the spirit of the Faith.

This thread is littered with Baha’i's peddling homophobic prejudice, pretending you're not treating them with disdain when Bahai's have called them evil, immoral sexual aberrations, that should be purged, is fooling no one. No matter how many facile and false platitudes you quote with the word love in them.

 

[Sheldon]

I believe that view is fallacious and that Baha’u’llah’s view that homosexuality is immoral is correct.

Which principle of logic are you claiming was violated, and how?

The principles of logic have nothing to do with your subjective beliefs, and the last part is proof positive that your religion and you espouse homophobic prejudice, you are both denying it, and confirming it, but fail to see the contradiction. FYI, making contradictory claims is fallacious, as it violates the law of non contradiction.

 

[Trailblazer]

I will no longer be discussing this particular issue

I think that s a good idea because there is nothing more to say that has not already been said.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, the irony!

There is absolutely no irony because I never claimed that my beliefs or personal opinions are facts.
In fact, many times I have said they are not facts.

 

[Sheldon]

I am heterosexual, and have never had children, by some Bahai's reasoning this makes my heterosexuality a danger to future of the species.

 

[Sheldon]

There is absolutely no irony because I never claimed that my beliefs or personal opinions are facts.
In fact, many times I have said they are not facts.

Yes you have.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is manifestly untrue, as religions and their adherents have found out to their cost, when they break society's laws by openly discriminating against people who happen to be gay.

What happens to the religious who break society's laws has nothing to do with what is moral.

 

[Sheldon]

What happens to the religious who break society's laws has nothing to do with what is moral.

Of course it does, you clearly don't know what the word means. Societies make laws predicated on what we consider to be right and wrong behaviours and actions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nonsense, I am happy for straight people to be treated equally with gay, the prejudice is yours, I'm simply opposing it.

You are so single-focused that you cannot even understand what I meant by prejudice.
I was not referring to gay vs straight. I was referring to your preconceived opinions about those who hold a different view than you. You are prejudiced against them.

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience
prejudice meaning - Google Search

 

[Trailblazer]

Whereas many decent societies base their laws on what those societies deem moral,

societies decide what is moral, and pass laws accordingly.

Societies only pass laws according to what they think is moral and most laws originated from religion.
Ever heard if the Ten Commandments?

 

[Trailblazer]

The deity people imagine to be real can and often does reflect all manner of their own prejudices.

Do you mean like you reflect your own prejudices?

 

[Trailblazer]

I came across Baha’u’llah accidentally.

Me too. I was not searching for God or a religion when I stumbled upon it.

I never deserved this blessing and never will be worthy of it. Oceans of gratitude could never adequately thank God for enabling me to recognise Him.

I feel the same way.

 

[Sheldon]

You are the pot calling the kettle black since you have your own prejudices, just in the opposite direction.

Nonsense, I am happy for straight people to be treated equally with gay, the prejudice is yours, I'm simply opposing it.

You are so single-focused that you cannot even understand what I meant by prejudice.

I don't care about your duplicitous semantics, prejudice is amply defined in any dictionary, and the poster I responded to has espoused prejudice against gay people, as have you, as does your religion.

I was not referring to gay vs straight.

Then your response was absurdly irrelevant to my post obviously, as that was precisely the context of it.

I was referring to your preconceived opinions about those who hold a different view than you. You are prejudiced against them.

Well if that's the way you want to spin it, then yes I am prejudiced against pernicious homophobic bigotry, though why you'd feel the need to state something this trivially obvious at this point is utterly baffling? Your religion and many of its adherents posting here though are prejudiced against gay people, just so that point is not lost in all your semantics.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you mean like you reflect your own prejudices?

No, as that is just senseless gibberish. Why don't you try for once addressing what is said, rather then using the same tired old whataboutism you think is a compelling response.

The deity people imagine to be real can and often does reflect all manner of their own prejudices. This is manifestly true, take your so called prophet projecting his own homophobic prejudice onto the deity he want's to imagine is using him as a conduit to spread that prejudice, the irony is a little too obvious and on the nose to ignore.