Homosexuality and religious.

[loverofhumanity]

Is that a fact or your opinion? If opinion then you don't talk for humanity and should stop talking for humanity.

I said ‘I believe’ so it’s my belief. Of course I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It’s the same with any of our laws. They are not just beliefs but laws that govern our community. There’s no point in becoming a Baha’i if one doesn’t agree with our laws.

But that is an opinion of how to do those laws. Between science and God, you could do it differently. That is my problem. You claim that you can do both in coherence, but you can't. You alway weigh one higher than the other.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I said ‘I believe’ so it’s my belief. Of course I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

Then stop speaking for humanity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Or rule out that God doesn't exist. Both are reasonable.
So you don't speak for all humans. You only speak based on how you reason.

I can only speak for myself. But I believe my conclusion is not based on human reasoning alone. But as human reasoning it is agreed is fallible, it is not a perfect method for acquiring certainty as it can err. But the Holy Spirit does not err and conveys perfect knowledge.

I believe that the Writings of Baha’u’llah have the Holy Spirit embedded in them and this is what the Holy Spirit does to the soul.

The Holy Spirit gives the true method of comprehension which is infallible and indubitable. This is through the help of the Holy Spirit which comes to man, and this is the condition in which certainty can alone be attained.
'Abdu'l-Bahá,

THOU hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.

 

[Vinayaka]

I said ‘I believe’ so it’s my belief. Of course I don’t speak for anyone but myself.

But it takes constant reminding for you to be able to say this. Three years back in our long discussions, this topic came up, and you'd repeatedly said you wouldn't do it any more, but then, a few days later, resort right back to it. It's the nature of the subconscious mind to resort back to what it's comfortable with, but with this one, it's be nice to see a permanent change, not just the occasional apology for it. Regardless, I have low expectations for older people stuck in their ways to be able to change.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Have you considered that all claims about what objective reality really is, are all fallacious?

Are you meaning God? If so I believe God can never be fully understood by the finite human mind but we can know He exists through His Prophets and Messengers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can only speak for myself. But I believe my conclusion is not based on human reasoning alone. But as human reasoning it is agreed is fallible, it is not a perfect method for acquiring certainty as it can err. But the Holy Spirit does not err and conveys perfect knowledge.

I believe that the Writings of Baha’u’llah have the Holy Spirit embedded in them and this is what the Holy Spirit does to the soul.

The Holy Spirit gives the true method of comprehension which is infallible and indubitable. This is through the help of the Holy Spirit which comes to man, and this is the condition in which certainty can alone be attained.
'Abdu'l-Bahá,

THOU hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.

But that applies to us all. There are in effect no reasonable argument for all of humanity, because we reason differently. You reason that you in a certain way and include your beliefs. I reason differently with different beliefs. That is so for us both.
All human understand is so far not fully in the strong sense objectively rational. That applies to us all and thus none of us can speak for all humans. How do I know? Because that is what is going on also in our exchange.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But that is an opinion of how to do those laws. Between science and God, you could do it differently. That is my problem. You claim that you can do both in coherence, but you can't. You alway weigh one higher than the other.

I’m not sure what you mean here can you elaborate thanks?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are you meaning God? If so I believe God can never be fully understood by the finite human mind but we can know He exists through His Prophets and Messengers.

Stop using a "we". You are doing it again. Here is no "we" for the everyday world. You are switching between individual and universal and you don't acknowledge that. That is your doublespeak and that is a part of how the world works. I accept that you do, but I still do it differently as me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’m not sure what you mean here can you elaborate thanks?

With science it can be show that your rules of homosexuality can harm people. It already has been posted in this thread.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So now, if you're not a Baha'i, you're turning against God? Wow.

No not at all. I believe humanity by not turning to Baha’u’llah is depriving itself. But that is my belief.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No not at all. I believe humanity by not turning to Baha’u’llah is depriving itself. But that is my belief.

Yeah, and that idea can cause harm in other people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Stop using a "we". You are doing it again. Here is no "we" for the everyday world. You are switching between individual and universal and you don't acknowledge that. That is your doublespeak and that is a part of how the world works. I accept that you do, but I still do it differently as me.

Ok. Sorry. In that sentence I meant to say that I believe people can learn about God from the Messengers. I always appreciate any corrections but I apologise in advance because my posts are not well written. Bad habits!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Ok. Sorry. In that sentence I meant to say that I believe people can learn about God from the Messengers. I always appreciate any corrections but I apologise in advance because my posts are not well written. Bad habits!

Yeah, and I believe that it is not the only way.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, and that idea can cause harm in other people.

Well if Baha’u’llah is calling for religions to reconcile their differences or for black and white to be as one how is that harmful?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well if Baha’u’llah is calling for religions to reconcile their differences or for black and white to be as one how is that harmful?

Because of your behaviour towards active homosexuals in your community. That is where it ends.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With science it can be show that your rules of homosexuality can harm people. It already has been posted in this thread.

I agree it can be a severe test for a homosexual wanting to be a Baha’i.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, and I believe that it is not the only way.

Im interested in which other ways do you mean?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree it can be a severe test for a homosexual wanting to be a Baha’i.

It is supposed to be a hard test

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Im interested in which other ways do you mean?

Try believing God loves homosexuals and don't consider them wrong.