I still say that it is Baha'is that are the ones that should be doing all they can to build bridges and find ways to be at peace with all people, but, because of their religious beliefs, they can't. And it is them that say that if a religion is the cause of division, we are better off without it.
I really believe Atheists have a legitimate complaint about people that put their faith into things they can't prove as true. People have been killed because of religious beliefs that say to kill people that are breaking a law of God. Homosexuals have been one of them. And again, it is Baha'is who say that religious beliefs that can't be supported by science might be, and very well could be, superstitions.
Baha'is have put themselves into this no-win situation. They talk about peace and unity and how to achieve it, but when examined, all they are really saying is, "If you believe our teachings and follow our prophet, we will be able to live in peace and unity." That's something we can all look at and see if it seems true or not. The only thing I can give them is a "maybe".
I still say that it is Baha'is that are the ones that should be doing all they can to build bridges and find ways to be at peace with all people, but, because of their religious beliefs, they can't. And it is them that say that if a religion is the cause of division, we are better off without it.
I really believe Atheists have a legitimate complaint about people that put their faith into things they can't prove as true. People have been killed because of religious beliefs that say to kill people that are breaking a law of God. Homosexuals have been one of them. And again, it is Baha'is who say that religious beliefs that can't be supported by science might be, and very well could be, superstitions.
Baha'is have put themselves into this no-win situation. They talk about peace and unity and how to achieve it, but when examined, all they are really saying is, "If you believe our teachings and follow our prophet, we will be able to live in peace and unity." That's something we can all look at and see if it seems true or not. The only thing I can give them is a "maybe".
Baha'u'llah has explained that in the Kitab-i-iqan CG. As previously offered, that Book explains all the Revelations of God. One has to read the book looking for spiritual connections, not read it looking for a chronological material story, though it does map the progression of religion.
Divines are mentioned 21 times in part 1 - Do a search for the word at this link.
"......Should you acquaint yourself with the indignities heaped upon the Prophets of God, and apprehend the true causes of the objections voiced by their oppressors, you will surely appreciate the significance of their position. Moreover, the more closely you observe the denials of those who have opposed the Manifestations of the divine attributes, the firmer will be your faith in the Cause of God. Accordingly, a brief mention will be made in this Tablet of divers accounts relative to the Prophets of God, that they may demonstrate the truth that throughout all ages and centuries the Manifestations of power and glory have been subjected to such heinous cruelties that no pen dare describe them. Perchance this may enable a few to cease to be perturbed by the clamour and protestations of the divines and the foolish of this age, and cause them to strengthen their confidence and certainty......."
".... Leaders of religion, in every age, have hindered their people from attaining the shores of eternal salvation, inasmuch as they held the reins of authority in their mighty grasp. Some for the lust of leadership, others through want of knowledge and understanding, have been the cause of the deprivation of the people. By their sanction and authority, every Prophet of God hath drunk from the chalice of sacrifice, and winged His flight unto the heights of glory. What unspeakable cruelties they that have occupied the seats of authority and learning have inflicted upon the true Monarchs of the world, those Gems of divine virtue! Content with a transitory dominion, they have deprived themselves of an everlasting sovereignty. Thus, their eyes beheld not the light of the countenance of the Well-Beloved, nor did their ears hearken unto the sweet melodies of the Bird of Desire. For this reason, in all sacred books mention hath been made of the divines of every age. Thus He saith: "O people of the Book! Why disbelieve the signs of God to which ye yourselves have been witnesses?"1 And also He saith: "O people of the Book! Why clothe ye the truth with falsehood? Why wittingly hide the truth?"2 Again, He saith: "Say, O people of the Book! Why repel believers from the way of God?"3 It is evident that by the "people of the Book," who have repelled their fellow-men from the straight path of God, is meant none other than the divines of that age, whose names and character have been revealed in the sacred books, and alluded to in the verses and traditions recorded therein, were you to observe with the eye of God...."
".. Inasmuch as the Christian divines have failed to apprehend the meaning of these words, and did not recognize their object and purpose, and have clung to the literal interpretation of the words of Jesus, they therefore became deprived of the streaming grace of the Muhammadan revelation and its showering bounties...."
".....In another sense, by these terms is intended the divines of the former Dispensation, who live in the days of the subsequent Revelations, and who hold the reins of religion in their grasp. If these divines be illumined by the light of the latter Revelation they will be acceptable unto God, and will shine with a light everlasting. Otherwise, they will be declared as darkened, even though to outward seeming they be leaders of men, inasmuch as belief and unbelief, guidance and error, felicity and misery, light and darkness, are all dependent upon the sanction of Him Who is the Day-star of Truth. Whosoever among the divines of every age receiveth, in the Day of Reckoning, the testimony of faith from the Source of true knowledge, he verily becometh the recipient of learning, of divine favour, and of the light of true understanding. Otherwise, he is branded as guilty of folly, denial, blasphemy, and oppression..."
Because it can't be proven, it leaves some reasonable doubt. The Christians I was around all believed the Bible extremely literally and they had no doubt. There was no doubt the God created the Earth and Universe a few thousand years ago. That evolution was false. That Satan and hell were real. That Jesus was God and the only way to salvation. By believing the Bible that literally also meant that they believe that God did reveal himself. He sent fire from heaven. Knocked down the walls of Jericho. Spoke from heaven. Wrote on a wall. Parted seas. Then there's the things that Jesus did like raise the dead and cast out demons and walk on water and that he also came back to life after being dead.
Baha'is don't necessarily believe that those Bible stories were literally true. So, all the Bible proofs of God disappear. Creation? Gone. Satan and hell? Gone. The parting of the seas? Gone. Jesus' resurrection? Gone. God speaking from heaven? Gone. Baha'is probably agree more with Atheists than Christians on these things.
The problem is the certainty that some Christians and Baha'is have about their beliefs. But those literal-believing Christians and the Baha'is have contradicting beliefs, so one or both of them is wrong about what they are so certain about.
I was there. I believed both, first the Baha'is, then the Christians. I believed God was real and that he sent different manifestations at different times to guide people. Then, after reading the Bible and the NT for myself, I agreed the Christian interpretation, that Jesus had to die to pay for the sins of the world. And, as I've said before, what I learned was that it didn't matter what I believed, as long as I believed it was true and applied the teachings and beliefs to my life. And both the Baha'i and Christian beliefs worked. Problem is... once I stopped believing they stopped working.
Another problem is that some religions demand a complete and total commitment to believing everything that the religion teaches. Some Christians have committed themselves to a very literal belief in the Bible and NT. And Baha'is aren't that much different... But they've committed themselves to believing everything that the Baha'i Faith teaches as the absolute truth. Ironically, the Baha'i truth doesn't take the Bible and NT literally... but usually Baha'is take it symbolically.
But it all comes down to what can you prove is real about your beliefs and what can't you prove? And what most Christians believe doesn't match with what Baha'is believe. So, I think it's important to look at what are the "unprovable" beliefs in both religions? The unprovable things are the foundation of each religion, and again, too many of those beliefs in each religion contradict.
The humanists, I think, is a reasonable solution. Leave off those unprovable things like an invisible God and what are the good and useful things that can be taken from religions? Anyway, I hope this opens up some more questions that we can discuss. And why is it that you and I can discuss these things, but we can't with Baha'is? Is it us or them?
If you wish too CG, I quote what Baha'u'llah offered.
It is also a key understanding as to why Baha'i's are not against other religions, Baha'u'llah has confirmed by using Divines, that they had a high calling, which is acceptable of God.
It is the misuse of that station that is the object of discussion.
As long as there are groups who discriminate against people base on sexual orientation or gender, (or anything else that has no basis in logic), there will be people who stand and speak against it. When such discrimination happens, it would be against morality NOT to speak up.
If you wish too CG, I quote what Baha'u'llah offered.
It is also a key understanding as to why Baha'i's are not against other religions, Baha'u'llah has confirmed by using Divines, that they had a high calling, which is acceptable of God.
It is the misuse of that station that is the object of discussion.
I have a difficult time distinguishing being against a religion, and just claiming it is no longer valid for this age, or proselytising at members of another religion with the intent of changing them. Is the difference only in matters of degrees, as in you're not using the sword to kill the infidels?
It certainly sounds like you're against other religions to me.
I have a difficult time distinguishing being against a religion, and just claiming it is no longer valid for this age, or proselytising at members of another religion with the intent of changing them. Is the difference only in matters of degrees, as in you're not using the sword to kill the infidels?
It certainly sounds like you're against other religions to me.
The it was told to me when I first met Baha'is is that leaders of all the former religions messed up the original teachings that had been revealed by their manifestation. They added in things and misinterpreted things, and eventually the original teachings were lost. If that's correct, then Baha'is can't say that any of the other religions are true. All they can say is that the mysterious, nowhere to be found, original message from the manifestation was true. But then the Scriptures of most all religions weren't even written by the manifestation. So, the followers could have and probably did get the things they put in the Scriptures wrong.
Then we get into who were the manifestations that first brought those original teaching that started the different religions? And I don't know if they even have an official manifestation that revealed your beliefs. As we've talked about that before, they make Krishna the manifestation for all of Hinduism. But even with that, they don't believe the accepted teachings of Krishna. Those teachings are included in the ones that the followers messed up and misinterpreted. So really, all that's left that is reliable and true, is the Baha'i Faith. For them to say they believe in all the other religions, to me, is meaningless.
In the past, there have been may contradictions in this topic. Baha'ispeak is similar to Doublespeak. I've very rarely read any words of yours at all with regard to any other religions besides Baha'i, so I'm not sure if you know enough about any of them to even make any judgement as to liking or not. A 'I love all religions' seems like some vague nicety without substance.
Sacrificed bio attacked human holy life is a huge personal suffering and still is. Unnatural early age death.
Mother father human a human in nature is whole one species and healthy. The law with God.
Science says highest healthiest living body by two owns living with its biology at its side a mutated version. God teaching about technology Satanists.
Which science says proves it should not occur. Biology reviewed.
Thesis is then asked. The claim single celled microbiology in holy waters destroyed removed by phenomena fall out above. In our past.
Science activated sun Satan mass fall above destroyed earths holy cloud angel mass. Above us. Only sky.
Pretty basic real teaching.
So living kind caring loving meek non destructive humans can be informed by hateful advice. Is told the theme it is agreed advice. So can hate you and want you not to exist. By reason.
As science asked how can so called loving humans think such wrong thoughts. Most about science scientists.
Your fault studier of consciousness now again. Your proof human evil choices only. In AI mind contact mind control studies viewing human behaviours changed by man with machine.
So we are not wrong. You are and still dare to abuse humanity as if we are ignorant.
Knowing ourselves no homosexual life should even exist.
It however was caused. Medically by healer we were told why. Law human parents sex produced by law the same human sex. Babies changed mind and biology. Inherited but are innocent.
Known technology temple had murdered biology health and consciousness. Stated exact.
As earths conscious heavens mass body conscious supported was sacrificed by body and removed. Told why.
Angels could not yet overcome the devil above .....I was shown in vision. Tail of beast wasn't angel caught. Meant cloud mass burning not enough cold. Heavens no longer cold enough our beast warning's.
Baby life sacrificed no longer born inside a stable beast heavens. Angel cloud mass missing technology caused fallout.
By men who don't honour the lizard type is now a miniature body that owns cold blood like the giant dead living dinosaurs had.
Science thesis is about when no life existed first microbes goes to giant tree dinosaur living. Not our life. That all died in huge atmospheric star attack.
The very reason legal said no dead theorising allowed.
Science thesis dead dinosaurs as if their biology is alive now. Bible said legally no thesis about returning from dead body our life is holy. Our heavens mass with ice body holy...saviour.
Don't give God a name means no scientific naming thesis allowed.
Pretty exact warning. Shut book. No one read the testimony after.
New star fell arrived...human brain mind human behaviour deviates in a no technology review. Same result. Homosexual and very strange ideas emerged dark ages proven before.
Men realise.... oh our brothers mind changed when the star returned. It wasn't his fault first...then it was his fault in technology constant. Sun mass above.
Why more and more humans are non genitalia aware today. As UFO fall above is larger.
Reason humans are consciously angered about homosexuality is a natural response. It's about our natural life being destroyed.
In the past, there have been may contradictions in this topic. Baha'ispeak is similar to Doublespeak. I've very rarely read any words of yours at all with regard to any other religions besides Baha'i, so I'm not sure if you know enough about any of them to even make any judgement as to liking or not. A 'I love all religions' seems like some vague nicety without substance.
Since we know that Baha'is don't believe the things that the other religions believe, it's probably like how they feel about gays... They say, "We love them". They just believe their sexual behaviors are wrong.
Since we know that Baha'is don't believe the things that the other religions believe, it's probably like how they feel about gays... They say, "We love them". They just believe their sexual behaviors are wrong.
In the past, there have been may contradictions in this topic. Baha'ispeak is similar to Doublespeak. I've very rarely read any words of yours at all with regard to any other religions besides Baha'i, so I'm not sure if you know enough about any of them to even make any judgement as to liking or not. A 'I love all religions' seems like some vague nicety without substance.
I see the Bab and Baha'u'llah did ask all of humanity, and that is still applicable, it is still current. The Bab prepared us and I quote below.
With our spiritually, it is up to us to choose how to react when we hear.
Baha'u'llah has offered, "never before has a Message been so openly proclaimed".
As people of the world, this was asked of us from the Bab.
"O PEOPLES of the earth! Verily the resplendent Light of God hath appeared in your midst, invested with this unerring Book, that ye may be guided aright to the ways of peace and, by the leave of God, step out of the darkness into the light and onto this far-extended Path of Truth......
God hath, out of sheer nothingness and through the potency of His command, created the heavens and the earth and whatever lieth between them. He is single and peerless in His eternal unity with none to join partner with His holy Essence, nor is there any soul, except His Own Self, who can befittingly comprehend Him…
O peoples of the earth! Verily His Remembrance is come to you from God after an interval during which there were no Messengers, that He may purge and purify you from uncleanliness in anticipation of the Day of the One true God; therefore seek ye whole-heartedly divine blessings from Him, inasmuch as We have, in truth, chosen Him to be the Witness and the Source of wisdom unto all that dwell on earth… Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 61-62
If you chose to read them, notice the last one where it says "...O peoples of the earth! Verily His Remembrance is come to you from God after an interval during which there were no Messengers..." This was preparation for the comming of Baha’u’llah.
