dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
By changing the subject you are conceding the point. Isaiah 62:2 is not talking about Baha'u''lah or the Bab. The "new name" is given in Isaiah 62:4. 2 verses later ... Prophecy Failure.
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Homosexuality and religious.
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
No, I showed how it is fulfilled and what the verse has indicated, IMHO.
It is a minefield and if I put my understanding into the mix, you will only come back with more issues.
So here it goes and let's see the response, this is what I see, there is no official Baha'i interpretations on this.
"....No longer shall "forsaken" be said of you, and "desolate" shall no longer be said of your land,....."
Fulfilled, the Jews have returned, G_d bless them one and all, thus that promise is fulfilled and the door of that promise opened in 1844. Thus Israel will no longer to be forsaken of the promise and desolate of G_d. We have become One People under One God.
"....for you shall be called "My desire is in her," and your land, "inhabited," for the Lord desires you, and your land shall be inhabited..."
The promised Messiah came to the Holy Land and lived in Akka and visited Carmel and established God's Throne in a new 'City of Peace' (a new Jerusalem), the Desire of all Faiths is in Isreal. The law now going out from Zion. It is inhabited by the very promise found in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Much, much more to offer, but I will say little, but to offer my Desire to return to Israel is always present, the Lord calls us all home.
Regards Tony
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The Baha'is have their headquarters in Haifa, and Baha'is tell me it is on Mt. Carmel. But does the law go out of Zion? And what is the connection between the Baha'i Faith and Sharon?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Since Isaiah was saying these things to the people of his time, what would all this mean to them? Was it meant for them? Or was it a prophecy that wouldn't be fulfilled for hundreds of years?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
To theory you own warning's first.
All science machine theists know they get warned. As the concept react is mortally dangerous.
They pretend I implement safety.
So men agreed on science the concept. Yet it was a one of star fall attack.
Baby men.
Your pre conceit a baby yourself holy life was two non baby bodies a magic concept.
Micro cells sperm ovary became a baby. The baby creator magically becomes the adult.
Concepts before science.
You then react and exodus the living support garden nature. Even though God concepts said don't do it's dangerous
All science machine theists know they get warned. As the concept react is mortally dangerous.
They pretend I implement safety.
So men agreed on science the concept. Yet it was a one of star fall attack.
Baby men.
Your pre conceit a baby yourself holy life was two non baby bodies a magic concept.
Micro cells sperm ovary became a baby. The baby creator magically becomes the adult.
Concepts before science.
You then react and exodus the living support garden nature. Even though God concepts said don't do it's dangerous
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The ground nuclear reacted became by your causes bare naked. As nature covered earths body.
Your human sexuality changes.
You are advised it's dangerous to have sex and babies will be badly mutated. Gods identification tells you it's changed.
You become depraved and chemical stimulated by mind changed and had sex.
Other humans however said I'll heed my human advice and remain celibate.
How isn't the advice correct?
As God O mass earth isn't garden body.
As God earth isn't animals bodies.
As God earth isn't human bodies.
No says men looking at the human spirit. Human.
Some say micro ground cells...no human. I won't believe what you quote single cells still are single cells.
Some say alien a spirit body first converts into human by heavens. Must have a body says science to be denoted a type of human. Cannot say human otherwise.
And others taught our parents came direct out of eternal. ....an already present being. Highest was instant.
Creation is less than eternal why we survived yet died.
Pretty basic advice.
Mind says sun attack had stopped.
Cloud mass filled heavens.
> Mass pushed onto eternal | existing separated from heavens ||>>>>>eternal changed within itself.
Clouds go away above ^ so eternal body now pushes back <<<<<.
||<<<<<<<<<<<Spirit.
<<<<<Spirit || crossed over from eternal into earths heavens. Floated first were not grounded.
^ thinning keeps going above.
<<<<<<Spirit goes back ||>>>>>>>
As it could.
First type bodies left behind on earth.
^thinning
<<<<<<<Spirit comes out again || crossed over.
The action continued.
If you ask father why didn't you return into the eternal and go back. He said it's because it's type the body spirit intelligence had changed.
We couldn't go back. Nature's type animal type kept us with it.
The reason science plus time shift machine choice an outcome for a no light atmosphere. By cause men thought it would release life from being on earth.
Exact...light kept us here. They knew...it was why they theoried no light.
Talking we use hand signals to depict the reasons. As only a mind uses symbolism in self Idealised terms. Natural life explained by hand movement why.
Native father puts hand out says we came from just here. Explaining where we came from.
I know my brother uses ^ symbol in science.
Yet ^ reactive science of men isn't the physical reason how movement caused spirit to come out of the eternal.
Symbolism hence lied. Man's first idea explaining multiple conditions yet nor owning any mass reason. First.
How human mind sexuality type human is known by sex body genitalia.
As there is no term a human base body as you are either or.
Reason homosexuality was science caused heavens body removed.
Your human sexuality changes.
You are advised it's dangerous to have sex and babies will be badly mutated. Gods identification tells you it's changed.
You become depraved and chemical stimulated by mind changed and had sex.
Other humans however said I'll heed my human advice and remain celibate.
How isn't the advice correct?
As God O mass earth isn't garden body.
As God earth isn't animals bodies.
As God earth isn't human bodies.
No says men looking at the human spirit. Human.
Some say micro ground cells...no human. I won't believe what you quote single cells still are single cells.
Some say alien a spirit body first converts into human by heavens. Must have a body says science to be denoted a type of human. Cannot say human otherwise.
And others taught our parents came direct out of eternal. ....an already present being. Highest was instant.
Creation is less than eternal why we survived yet died.
Pretty basic advice.
Mind says sun attack had stopped.
Cloud mass filled heavens.
> Mass pushed onto eternal | existing separated from heavens ||>>>>>eternal changed within itself.
Clouds go away above ^ so eternal body now pushes back <<<<<.
||<<<<<<<<<<<Spirit.
<<<<<Spirit || crossed over from eternal into earths heavens. Floated first were not grounded.
^ thinning keeps going above.
<<<<<<Spirit goes back ||>>>>>>>
As it could.
First type bodies left behind on earth.
^thinning
<<<<<<<Spirit comes out again || crossed over.
The action continued.
If you ask father why didn't you return into the eternal and go back. He said it's because it's type the body spirit intelligence had changed.
We couldn't go back. Nature's type animal type kept us with it.
The reason science plus time shift machine choice an outcome for a no light atmosphere. By cause men thought it would release life from being on earth.
Exact...light kept us here. They knew...it was why they theoried no light.
Talking we use hand signals to depict the reasons. As only a mind uses symbolism in self Idealised terms. Natural life explained by hand movement why.
Native father puts hand out says we came from just here. Explaining where we came from.
I know my brother uses ^ symbol in science.
Yet ^ reactive science of men isn't the physical reason how movement caused spirit to come out of the eternal.
Symbolism hence lied. Man's first idea explaining multiple conditions yet nor owning any mass reason. First.
How human mind sexuality type human is known by sex body genitalia.
As there is no term a human base body as you are either or.
Reason homosexuality was science caused heavens body removed.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
God is lots of bodies same one in each mass. Unified as term a mass.
If God the typified thesis one type of created you...your body and mind would never change. As gods creation belonged to God the type.
Our human science teaching.
Thinking conscious human concept ∆.
Symbolism only.
____ground I stand on.
Father human son human.
∆ above holy spirit only.
A thought concept.
As heavens surround us.
Heavens above is not the same heavens below unless you claim only water is beneath our feet. As God the rock isn't the type a heavens body.
In explanation human to human.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
This is completely disconnected from Isaiah 62:2. Please, focus on what you claimed on Isaiah 62:2. It is not fufilled by the Bab and Baha'u'llah because in Isaiah 62:4 the "new name" is given. Whatever you're talking about here is irrelevent to that.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Men always said legal human governing involves no science. Or its history.
As brothers built civilisation governed falsely as king's and lords. Built technology as king's lords to get earths God powers. Already rich by mining gold jewels trade.
Their science high priest king governing was evil. No legal human rights. Not abiding gods earth natural laws.
Uses gods terms as it was said by human theist science brother before him. Chosen choice...I'll contest them.
Native humanity said honour life with nature. Never involved.
Why scientific religion governing was said it was a known evil as it still victimised by edicts to its own family.
So humans agreed.
I will build buildings of healing.
I won't make it a temple as it was science of man.
I won't make it a Church as they abused us in governing also.
I'll remind humanity family not slave humans built buildings. Not lying. As we don't accept titles given by evil greedy men.
Buildings are for family United to gather...once owning a beautiful garden lost in many earth places eradicated decimated. By man's god sciences.
Come and see how it feels to be honoured. In a lovely garden.
The Baha'i teaching.
I can teach government but I don't rule government. Exact reason.
As brothers built civilisation governed falsely as king's and lords. Built technology as king's lords to get earths God powers. Already rich by mining gold jewels trade.
Their science high priest king governing was evil. No legal human rights. Not abiding gods earth natural laws.
Uses gods terms as it was said by human theist science brother before him. Chosen choice...I'll contest them.
Native humanity said honour life with nature. Never involved.
Why scientific religion governing was said it was a known evil as it still victimised by edicts to its own family.
So humans agreed.
I will build buildings of healing.
I won't make it a temple as it was science of man.
I won't make it a Church as they abused us in governing also.
I'll remind humanity family not slave humans built buildings. Not lying. As we don't accept titles given by evil greedy men.
Buildings are for family United to gather...once owning a beautiful garden lost in many earth places eradicated decimated. By man's god sciences.
Come and see how it feels to be honoured. In a lovely garden.
The Baha'i teaching.
I can teach government but I don't rule government. Exact reason.
I see the word of God as timeless and has many meanings that drive our reality.
Thus there was meaning then, meanings that had unfolded in the past and meanings for this future and the future yet to come.
For God, it is all known. Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Okay, maybe... But are there prophecies that say that the Messiah will be Persian? Or do they say that he will be Jewish? Then... Are there prophecies that make Carmel the new Jerusalem and doesn't have the Messiah even go to the city of Jerusalem? And is the law going out of Zion? Baha'is say their laws are only for Baha'is. So, are you now saying the Baha'i laws are for the whole world and will one day be the law for the whole world?
But are particular verses taken out of context timeless? Again, the example of Jesus and Isaiah 7:14. The writer of Matthew, whoever that was, takes that verse and ignores the context of the rest of chapter seven and makes it a prophecy about Jesus being born of a virgin. How did he know? Who else backs up his story of the virgin birth? Luke? The Quran? No, they both contradict his story.
Could it be a myth, a made-up story? I think it could be. Who at that time would know the difference? After all, other "gods" of the time had miraculous births. I would think the Baha'is would interpret the virgin birth the same way they interpret the resurrection and say it was "symbolic". But if that was true, and the verses Baha'i use from Isaiah true, then the real reason and purpose of Isaiah saying those things was not what the people of Isaiah's time thought they meant... it was what people centuries later thought they meant. But still, it is only what one verse meant... not the whole chapter. Claim them if you must. It worked for Christians. But like with Christians and the verses they cherry picked, it is only meaningful to Baha'is, but it gives non-Baha'is a reason to doubt how honest Baha'is are being.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's true, the Word of God has many meanings, and the meanings are all known to God.
The meanings were also known to Baha'u'llah since He was God's Representative on Earth.
“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Our one first only parent. Two.
Two humans equal on Gods earths as nature gardens laws. Laws created by God said humans.
Never said law created my life.
Two parents both virgins. Stated.
Mutual.
Taught as science brother life mind sacrificed self idolated. False preached machine temple pyramid science...who said only his life a baby man was special. Virgin birth.
Proof his conscious mind gone. Two parents of human baby both of virgin sex birth.
The truth testimony. Proof why.
Two parents both virgins of sex. Not just one.
So you realise it's just a legal testimony to make governing new choices now as legal mutual human rights...no man is God. Now just as before in realisation why.
Science man with machine pretended he was God. Behaviour still exhibited today the theist human.
Now man and woman the warning both doing it. As if woman's mind became the man of science. Thinks she's a man in sexuality our proof. A warning. Many types of advice the warning.
Near to our heavens mass destruction. As body mass above our gas spirit is sacrificed. As suns mass should not enter our gas heavens. Protection voiding womb.
The warning sexual change your warning in cities built designed by God man. The place. Technology re emerges machines will destroy you all.
Men of science taught Satan in heavens holy life was support light...God cold. God cold doesn't support bio life it protects it law.
Without Satan god doesn't exist without God Satan doesn't exist. Change neither.
The warning meaning of holy in science.
Two humans equal on Gods earths as nature gardens laws. Laws created by God said humans.
Never said law created my life.
Two parents both virgins. Stated.
Mutual.
Taught as science brother life mind sacrificed self idolated. False preached machine temple pyramid science...who said only his life a baby man was special. Virgin birth.
Proof his conscious mind gone. Two parents of human baby both of virgin sex birth.
The truth testimony. Proof why.
Two parents both virgins of sex. Not just one.
So you realise it's just a legal testimony to make governing new choices now as legal mutual human rights...no man is God. Now just as before in realisation why.
Science man with machine pretended he was God. Behaviour still exhibited today the theist human.
Now man and woman the warning both doing it. As if woman's mind became the man of science. Thinks she's a man in sexuality our proof. A warning. Many types of advice the warning.
Near to our heavens mass destruction. As body mass above our gas spirit is sacrificed. As suns mass should not enter our gas heavens. Protection voiding womb.
The warning sexual change your warning in cities built designed by God man. The place. Technology re emerges machines will destroy you all.
Men of science taught Satan in heavens holy life was support light...God cold. God cold doesn't support bio life it protects it law.
Without Satan god doesn't exist without God Satan doesn't exist. Change neither.
The warning meaning of holy in science.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Having "many" meanings also can make it meaningless. Especially when people just pull one verse out and make it mean something that they want it to mean.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Okay, it's your interpretation. So, how do you interpret.... "4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married." Are those "new" names or not?
Depends what you are seeking CG.
Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye. shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh. findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened"
O SON OF BEING! Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee. — The Hidden Words, Arabic no. 11
O SON OF SPIRIT! I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting. — The Hidden Words, Arabic no. 13
Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The story says when humans become as our God science brothers beginnings. Rich abuser. Technology. Sacrificed health mind consciousness.
Ignoring the seen witnessed sacrificed life body of family. Continuing as if it's meaningless.
We'll be living like a poor king. Which society exhibits in all of its behaviours.
Not poor in fact but a king type lifestyle. What only the rich were once allowed.
Is one of our warning's about greed and gluttony out of balance with families mutual equal needs.
The holy life within us...what does a cloud man give us? Water life's subsistence. It is within as it is without.
Meant to be balanced. Now it's not.
The reason the sun is taking it away from earth as men destroy take away body of gods flesh...mass.
So the sun leaving it's holy satanic light takes our water life also to leave.
So as men generate energy as we humans survive only by eating food the source of biologies energy. Generations leave earth.
The history garden nature animal humans bio genesis living by sex only.
As babies die unable to be healthy to live. And babies die. The holy baby human life is leaving.
It's why you see baby humans in clouds also a warning. Leaving.
Babies living by sex only not by genesis lying science theist man.
You ask did man in cloud save life.
No. Life was genesis sacrificed.
Extra cloud mass above saved us...attack ended.
Father said it didn't carry forward or Carry on. Once only.
Any new occurrence is new only.
Ignoring the seen witnessed sacrificed life body of family. Continuing as if it's meaningless.
We'll be living like a poor king. Which society exhibits in all of its behaviours.
Not poor in fact but a king type lifestyle. What only the rich were once allowed.
Is one of our warning's about greed and gluttony out of balance with families mutual equal needs.
The holy life within us...what does a cloud man give us? Water life's subsistence. It is within as it is without.
Meant to be balanced. Now it's not.
The reason the sun is taking it away from earth as men destroy take away body of gods flesh...mass.
So the sun leaving it's holy satanic light takes our water life also to leave.
So as men generate energy as we humans survive only by eating food the source of biologies energy. Generations leave earth.
The history garden nature animal humans bio genesis living by sex only.
As babies die unable to be healthy to live. And babies die. The holy baby human life is leaving.
It's why you see baby humans in clouds also a warning. Leaving.
Babies living by sex only not by genesis lying science theist man.
You ask did man in cloud save life.
No. Life was genesis sacrificed.
Extra cloud mass above saved us...attack ended.
Father said it didn't carry forward or Carry on. Once only.
Any new occurrence is new only.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Did men make clay moulds to build graven images from gold...statues in image humans?
Yes.
Did men use clay pots to store grape juice acidic for battery storage temple pyramid?
Yes.
Agreed. I go further. Failing to successfully rebut a plausible argument is conceding its conclusion. It's the same standard used in a court of law: the last plausible, unrebutted argument prevails. Who made it? The defense? If so, one must vote not guilty if he is on a jury and acting in good faith. Was it the prosecution? Did the prosecutor present an airtight case that is plausible and could not be successfully rebutted by the defense? Then your duty is to vote guilty. That's dialectic - the method used in academia to decide matters between cooperating critical thinkers. This is the same, although some participants may not understand that when they fail to successfully rebut, that the debate is over, and their argument or claim was defeated.
The very same evidence that allows me to reject his claims and those made about him. I see mundane words and a mundane life. I realize that it is blasphemy to you, but I know many people who can write that kind of language, and who have lived more exemplary lives than a preacher that isn't also King or Tutu possibly can - men who distinguished themselves the way distinguished humanists do. The same is true with Jesus, who is also offered as a moral standard to be aimed for. Really? Same answer.
I still get email from my former pastor from 40 years ago, a gifted and charismatic man full of joy and boundless energy. This guy certainly equals Jesus and Baha'u'llah morally:
November 10, 2022
Greetings *****,
I am traveling in Texas today, thankful for the opportunity to teach leaders. Several days ago, it struck me how suddenly the Covid 19 lockdowns came upon us, and for me how fast they lifted. The last three months have been full! New York, Maryland, West Virginia, Mexico, South Africa, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, England and Michigan. I am rejoicing, thankful to be working with our Lord, for His favor, protection and provision.
Many meanings? That's not good, not in the context of instructions from on high. You're probably aware of what distinguishes prose from poetry. Prose informs, and should be specific, as with directions somewhere, or a PhD thesis, or a last will and testament. Poetry is art, and is deliberately nonspecific, so that the reader can project himself into its meaning. Here's a verse from Dylan's Desolation Row:
Dr. Filth, he keeps his world inside of a leather cup
But all his sexless patients, they're trying to blow it up
Now his nurse, some local loser, she's in charge of the cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read, "Have Mercy on His Soul"
They all play on the penny whistles, you can hear them blow
If you lean your head out far enough from Desolation Row
But all his sexless patients, they're trying to blow it up
Now his nurse, some local loser, she's in charge of the cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read, "Have Mercy on His Soul"
They all play on the penny whistles, you can hear them blow
If you lean your head out far enough from Desolation Row
What does that say? Nothing specific. It means whatever one wants it to mean. As you say, it is timeless and has many meanings. What do you see there? What's being criticized when you read it? Probably not the same as me. Is that Jeffrey and Ghislane? Trump and Melania? Johnny and Amber? Probably not, since you're not American. You're more likely to be thinking of Australians. For me, it brings to mind a specific physician I worked with.
Many meanings: good in poetry, bad in prose.
Agreed, and I think I made that point - there is no test possible to distinguish between free will and the illusion of free will.
Yes, we have volition, but is it determined by the state of the universe at the moment the choice is revealed, or is the volitional agent unconstrained to make his choice. As I said, the hardest part of this subject for most is to see that those are very different things, both called free will.
I have a dog - a pug - who spins in counterclockwise circles and begins whimpering whenever he sees me preparing his bowl. Every time. Is that free will or only the illusion of free will? Maybe this will help: other pug owners report the same behavior in their pugs, but not their other breeds.
I say that he has no choice in the matter. He recognizes it's feeding time and a message is sent to his consciousness to spin counterclockwise, which he dutifully obeys without question or further consideration. Could he choose to not spin? It's physically possible, obviously, since other dogs don't spin, including his terrier sister. But I say that he has no choice. He has a will, but I say that it is not free to choose to not spin, or to spin in the other direction.
That's easy to see, because his repertoire of responses is limited to one. But what if he sometimes behaved differently, like you and I do when we know food is being prepared? Would that mean our wills are free? The argument is that we couldn't tell even if we had a time machine and could visit the moment and act again, although I think being able to predict somebody's choice before they act as with a PET scan would go a long way toward demonstrating that the feeling that one could have chosen otherwise might be illusion.
I would agree with that, but don't think you do, which is why I think you mistyped. You probably meant atheists. And I wouldn't disagree with that either, because most atheists have trouble with this idea as well - making a distinction between the illusion of free will - having a desire and executing it without any feeling of being constrained to make that choice - and having an indeterministic will that actually could have chosen otherwise.
This tells me that I haven't gotten through to you yet. And that is exactly why I call this the most misunderstood aspect of this subject.
And, of course, this is the basis of the claim that the coexistence of omniscience and indeterministic free will are incompatible. As alluded, if we could predict what an individual will do in any specified situation as an omniscient god is said to be able to do, we cannot call his will free, just his ability to execute it, and maybe not even that.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Too many 'eths', too many 'yes'. People just do not speak like this any more. Jesus speaks to us now just as we speak to each other, in the 'language of the market place'. This is 2022, not 1611.
Ask, Search, Knock
“Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. NRSV