Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

You are shaping the future in the mindset of the past CG. It does not work.

Humanity will change greatly, it will face great turmoil, to that there is no longer any doubt.

Regards Tony

If God is going to change humanity and make them what? More spiritual? Then why didn't God do this sooner? Why leave them in a state where God knows that they will go off in the wrong direction, misunderstand his messages, and kill his messengers?

 

[CG Didymus]

I use the same reply CG, but will add a key component in the Baha'i Law is the protection of a minority.

It is up to Baha'i to practice the law and we can not speculate what others outside the faith may choose to implement into law.

Regards Tony

Right now, in many countries they are choosing not to implement laws that forbid homosexuality and are passing laws that allow homosexual marriages. So, what about those hearts? Did those hearts make a change for the worse? And explain who is this minority that is being protected by God forbidding homosexuality?

But let me try again, let's say in Australia, right now, the legislature proposes a law that would forbid homosexuality... Would you and other Baha'is support that proposal? Or... if the government wants to pass a law that denies same sex marriages... would you and other Baha'is support it? If you believe it is God's law, why not just admit it? Baha'is, along with conservatives in other religions, would support the passage of such laws.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If God is going to change humanity and make them what? More spiritual? Then why didn't God do this sooner? Why leave them in a state where God knows that they will go off in the wrong direction, misunderstand his messages, and kill his messengers?

All have the choice now CG and do not consider it as a choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

This graphic is outdated. We are no longer considered a part of anthropoidea, instead we are a part of the haplorhini suborder and the simiiformes infraorder. We're no longer considered monkeys, but instead we are considered simians.

I agree. We are not monkeys, the classification has been changed. But change of classification does not change our ancestral links with them.

"In earlier classification, New World monkeys, Old World monkeys, apes, and humans – collectively known as simians or anthropoids – were grouped under Anthropoidea ('resembling, connected to, etc.'), while the strepsirrhines and tarsiers were grouped under the suborder "Prosimii". Under modern classification, the tarsiers and simians are grouped under the suborder Haplorhini, while the strepsirrhines are placed in suborder Strepsirrhini. Strong genetic evidence for this is that five SINEs are common to all haplorhines whilst absent in strepsirrhines — even one being coincidental between tarsiers and simians would be quite unlikely. Despite this preferred taxonomic division, "prosimian" is still regularly found in textbooks and the academic literature because of familiarity, a condition likened to the use of the metric system in the sciences and the use of customary units elsewhere in the United States. In the Anthropoidea, evidence indicates that the Old World and New World primates went through parallel evolution."
Simian - Wikipedia

 

[Brian2]

The way I think of this is that freewill means that we are capable of choosing, while freedom of choice means that it is possible for us to choose.

Sounds good. It is one of those topics where it can be hard to articulate exactly what we mean and so can argue for ages only to find out we were arguing against what was not intended in the first place. I do that a lot.

 

[Brian2]

 

[CG Didymus]

All have the choice now CG and do not consider it as a choice.

Regards Tony

Lots of people have made all kinds of choices about who they're going to love and what religion is true. Most of the choices, if the Baha'is Faith is correct, are the wrong choices.

 

[Trailblazer]

Lots of people have made all kinds of choices about who they're going to love and what religion is true. Most of the choices, if the Baha'is Faith is correct, are the wrong choices.

Lots of people have made all kinds of choices about who they're going to love and what religion is true. Most of the choices, if Judaism, Christianity, or Islam are correct, are the wrong choices, according to the other religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Lots of people have made all kinds of choices about who they're going to love and what religion is true. Most of the choices, if the Baha'is Faith is correct, are the wrong choices.

Or correct choices, with the requirement of a new frames of references, that include all the correct choices.

IMHO, this is the 'Day of God', the realisation that there is only One God.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Or correct choices, with the requirement of a new frames of references, that include all the correct choices.

IMHO, this is the 'Day of God', the realisation that there is only One God.

Regards Tony

That's the Baha'i choice. For those that have found truth in another religion, again, if the Baha'is Faith is true, they are going to be wrong about something.

And this is the "day" of God? Yes, according to Baha'i beliefs. But again, what were those prophecies that said the Messiah will come, get rejected and thrown in prison, die, and even after almost 200 years, there is no peace in the world? And the great tribulation is still to come? If the Baha'i Faith is true, and Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies, then there should be some that would have prophesied about this. Is there some?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's the Baha'i choice. For those that have found truth in another religion, again, if the Baha'is Faith is true, they are going to be wrong about something.

Thought this was applicable.

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
— Leo Tolstoy

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

IMHO, this is the 'Day of God', the realisation that there is only One God.

There are a whole lot of people who differ with your humble choice.

Thought this was applicable.
“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
— Leo Tolstoy

I do not think that is the answer to CG's question.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I do not think that is the answer to CG's question.

The same questions. So I now choose different answers, some not even on topic, but indirectly applicable.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

The same questions. So I now choose different answers, some not even on topic, but indirectly applicable.

With that, you are avoiding a direct answer to his question.

 

[CG Didymus]

Thought this was applicable.

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
— Leo Tolstoy

Regards Tony

When it comes to religion calling something "wrong" is too easily put out there. Did Jesus resurrect? Is it "wrong" that some Christians believe that? Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah is a manifestation of God. Is it "wrong" for them to believe that? These are things that can't be shown to be right or wrong. And belief in either one has led people to become better people. But only because the "believe" and apply the teachings of their religion that causes them to do good rather than evil.

Following Scientology or the Book of Mormon can also cause people to become better, kind and loving people. But are those teachings true? The problem is when some people in some religions start acting as if everybody needs to believe in their religion. Baha'is might not force people to convert, but they sure seem to believe that their religion is the only way to bring about peace in the world. Which makes all the other religions "wrong", since they don't have the new teachings from God and can't accomplish the task of bringing the world together in peace and unity.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not think that is the answer to CG's question.

With that, you are avoiding a direct answer to his question.

I'm still waiting for a direct answer to the question whether Baha'is would support the passage of a law that forbids homosexuality. When can Baha'is say? They can't say "no". But to say "yes"? On this forum? In this thread? The Baha'is would face a lot of criticism.

Another question Baha'is never answer is which of all the religions believed in and practiced today, do Baha'is believe teaches the truth? How can they answer that? We all know that the answer is probably none of them. Yet they say they believe all of them, the ones "revealed" by a manifestation of God, are true. But they don't give a direct answer. And the only thing I'm trying to get them to admit is that they believe they are the only "true" religion at this time... and that they believe all the others have wrong beliefs mixed into them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When it comes to religion calling something "wrong" is too easily put out there. Did Jesus resurrect? Is it "wrong" that some Christians believe that? Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah is a manifestation of God. Is it "wrong" for them to believe that? These are things that can't be shown to be right or wrong. And belief in either one has led people to become better people. But only because the "believe" and apply the teachings of their religion that causes them to do good rather than evil.

Following Scientology or the Book of Mormon can also cause people to become better, kind and loving people. But are those teachings true? The problem is when some people in some religions start acting as if everybody needs to believe in their religion. Baha'is might not force people to convert, but they sure seem to believe that their religion is the only way to bring about peace in the world. Which makes all the other religions "wrong", since they don't have the new teachings from God and can't accomplish the task of bringing the world together in peace and unity.

IMHO, just look for the Light CG, from no matter where it shines, this is a key to the Oneness of God, do not look for the darkness. The Names of God are One CG. Abdul'baha shows us how all names can become one.

"......"Question: Are not all Christians Bahá’ís? Is there any difference?
Answer: When Christians act according to the teachings of Christ, they are called Bahá’ís. For the foundations of Christianity and the religion of Bahá’u’lláh are one. The foundations of all the divine Prophets and Holy Books are one. The difference among them is one of terminology only. Each springtime is identical with the former springtime. The distinction between them is only one of the calendar—1911, 1912 and so on. The difference between a Christian and a Bahá’í, therefore, is this: There was a former springtime, and there is a springtime now. No other difference exists because the foundations are the same. Whoever acts completely in accordance with the teachings of Christ is a Bahá’í. The purpose is the essential meaning of Christian, not the mere word. The purpose is the sun itself and not the dawning points. For though the sun is one sun, its dawning points are many. We must not adore the dawning points but worship the sun. We must adore the reality of religion and not blindly cling to the appellation Christianity. The Sun of Reality must be worshiped and followed. We must seek the fragrance of the rose from whatever bush it is blooming—whether oriental or western. Be seekers of light, no matter from which lantern it shines forth. Be not lovers of the lantern. At one time the light has shone from a lantern in the East, now in the West. If it comes from North, South, from whatever direction it proceeds, follow the light...."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Pages 247-252

So there are many Baha'i out there that are just yet to let go of names and become One under One God. We can all help each other find the Light.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'is might not force people to convert, but they sure seem to believe that their religion is the only way to bring about peace in the world. Which makes all the other religions "wrong", since they don't have the new teachings from God and can't accomplish the task of bringing the world together in peace and unity.

No, it does not make all the other religions wrong, it just makes them old.

 

[CG Didymus]

All have the choice now CG and do not consider it as a choice.

Regards Tony

And what choice are most people going to make as long as they are still in a state of being that prefers their animal nature over their spiritual nature? If it's going to take a change from God, then he can't expect most people to make the right choice right now. He could make us all more spiritual right now, but he doesn't. Why not? To teach us a lesson? That we should have chosen to be more spiritual? Even though most of us didn't have the capacity to be more spiritual?

 

[Vinayaka]

No, it does not make all the other religions wrong, it just makes them old.

Outdated? Regardless of how you put it, it's still insulting to many, especially when that 'old' religion has far more tolerance for things like homosexuality than the 'new' one does.