Homosexuality & Religion

[Autodidact]

when its a lifestyle choice, how is choosing a different path 'ruining lives'? I know more men who's lives were ruined because of the homosexual lifestyle.

But why is it so hard to believe that some homosexuals can choose a different course for the sake of God? God is real to many people...even homosexuals and I really admire those who are willing to make such a sacrifice for God.

Because it's a lie. And why should we? To make you comfortable? If you for some bizarre reason think it's wrong to have sex with another woman, then don't do it. Please leave me out of your odd taboos.

 

[Autodidact]

I agree that religious people should not get involved. The problem comes when homosexuals want to get involved with religion...then it kind of forces the issue.

The JW standpoint is that homosexuals can attend our meetings and they will be welcome, they can also have their own personal bible study. But if they want to become a JW and get baptized, then they have to be willing to adhere to the bibles standard before that can happen. But that goes for hetrosexuals too...singles cant be having sex outside of marriage...there is no difference in the requirement in that regard.

Yet another reason to turn those JWs away from my door.

 

[Autodidact]

homosexuality is still an enigma...there is no conclusive or absolute explanation for the behavior yet, ie, no gene that is the 'gay gene' so its not easy to simply assume that its natural behavior

its natural for a man and woman to have sex...the evidence is seen both physically and mentally

but homosexuality does not produce children, its not a learned behavior passed on from ones parents...it doesnt benefit the individual in terms of evolution...so what is its purpose? This is why it is mostly believed to be a choice.

Actually, I think it does benefit the individual woman in terms of evolution, and will explain how if you're interested.

The point is, it harms no one. Lesbians don't go around knocking on your door asking whether you want to talk about your love life.

 

[Autodidact]

yes, i agree

which is why it is considered to be a 'choice' for them

Hermaphrodites do not have a choice in the matter because they are physically both sexes.

Considered by whom? Ignorant straight people? Here's an idea, let's ask the homosexuals in this thread whether they chose to be gay.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what I, or anyone else, thinks about it is irrelevant...if what you want to know is what 'God' thinks about it, then the answer is simple

God opposes homosexuality because, among other things, it does not benefit the individual. This fact is expressed in the apostle Paul’s letter to Christians where he said:

“That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female..."

Umm... that passage doesn't actually say that God opposes homosexuality. In fact, it says (if you take "natural" to mean "heterosexual", which is actually something you should defend on its own merits) that God deliberately caused homosexuality at least in this case.

A plain-text reading of this passage gives a different message: homosexuality (at least in this case) is ordained by God, and Paul doesn't like it.

 

[Storm]

Considered by whom? Ignorant straight people? Here's an idea, let's ask the homosexuals in this thread whether they chose to be gay.

Don't forget us bis!

I know I had nothing resembling a choice in my attraction to women OR men.

 

[Autodidact]

Do you have a biological reason for being attracted to (fill in the blank with a characteristic of what you're attracted to)?

I have evidence that there's probably something biological going on simply by the fact that I had lesbian inclinations since as early as I could remember. When my friends first started talking about how cute boys were I didn't understand, because I thought my friends were cute. It was a long and painful process of hiding how I really felt and even dating a few boys to try to prove to others (and myself) that I was "normal."

It wasn't a choice, I didn't just think "Gee I think I'll become one of the most hated people by everyone around me in this redneck Missouri town and by many folks in general." Who on earth "chooses" that? How can you possibly think that people would choose that?

Speaking for myself, I find being a lesbian a delightful and fulfilling way of life, and I recommend it to any woman who has the capacity for it.

 

[Storm]

when its a lifestyle choice, how is choosing a different path 'ruining lives'?

1) It's not a "lifestyle choice." It's an integral part of one's identity, majority or otherwise. Why is it that we queers have to settle for "lifestyles," while straight just have "lives."

2) Living a lie is BAD FOR YOU. Whether a given minority is programmed to hate their ethnicity, orientation, or faith. If you can't grasp that, I don't think I can explain it.

I know more men who's lives were ruined because of the homosexual lifestyle.

And what would that "lifestyle" be?

But why is it so hard to believe that some homosexuals can choose a different course for the sake of God?

Not everyone is cut out for celibacy, and NO ONE can change their native orientation. Disagree? Prove me wrong and become a happy lesbian.

God is real to many people...even homosexuals and I really admire those who are willing to make such a sacrifice for God.

God is real to me, too. Homophobes don't have a monopoly on faith.

 

[Looncall]

Yet the nt speaks often of the flesh, it says those that belong to Christ have crucified the the flesh of its passions and desires. And while your description of me being against homosexual activity, is some what accurate, the Word of God plays a much bigger role in my life style. I dont like your spinach analogy, would it have been any different if you would have used dog crap instead.

You are being conned. Religions use this kind of thing to make people morbidly guilty so that pews and collection plates stay full.

A side effect is mindless bigotry.

 

[Pegg]

A homosexual person isn't a mix of male and female; he or she is fully male or fully female (as the case may be), just attracted to the same sex.

im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.

 

[Pegg]

That is because those people are what we call bisexual. These are people who are attracted to both men and women. Homosexuals are only attracted to the same sex.

I have heard many homosexuals including Meow Mix, the homosexual in the video in post #147 talk about how they state that they really have no sexual attraction to women. You on the other hand who does not know anything about how it is like to be homosexual claim that they actually are heterosexual instinctively.

that may be true...im sure they wouldnt do it if they were not attracted to the same sex

but the question that I was originally answering was 'why does God have a problem with that'. I dont want to get into an argument against homosexuals and im not going to do that.

 

[painted wolf]

im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.

Actually there is plenty of research to show a biological cause.

Here is just one paper:
Sexual characteristics of adult female mice are correlated with their blood testosterone levels during prenatal development -- vom Saal and Bronson 208 (4444): 597 -- Science

wa:do

 

[Meow Mix]

im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.

Ok, let's pretend for a second that it's not a choice and that all the people that die every year from bigots and "corrective rapes" and so on aren't just "choosing" to get themselves killed just for the hell of it.

Does God still dislike the homosexuals even if they were born that way, or are they just expected to be celibate their whole lives?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

im not saying that homosexuals are like hermaphrodites

Im saying that hermaphrodites have 'no choice' because of their biology....homosexuals on the other hand have no biological reason (that we know of) to be attracted to the same sex therefore it is a choice.

I'm confused - so how exactly did you think that hermaphrodites were relevant to the discussion?

And your argument here is an argument from ignorance: you don't know how it could be biological, so you conclude that it couldn't have been biological. This just doesn't work logically.

 

[Smoke]

1. Simply put, it's not what He authorized. The "harm" done is disobedience.

I don't have much patience with your religion or its prohibition of homosexuality, but I have to give you credit for having the integrity to simply present it as the religious prohibition it is, rather than trying to push a bunch dishonest and ignorant pseudo-scientific, pseudo-philosophical arguments as so many believers do.

 

[Pegg]

Ok, let's pretend for a second that it's not a choice and that all the people that die every year from bigots and "corrective rapes" and so on aren't just "choosing" to get themselves killed just for the hell of it.

Does God still dislike the homosexuals even if they were born that way, or are they just expected to be celibate their whole lives?

God does not 'dislike' homosexuals.... just because he does not like the sort of sex they practice does not mean that he does not like 'them'

he sets the same standards for all people no matter what their beliefs, orientation, nationality, likes, dislikes....he has had the same standards he always had and his door is open to any who can make room for him.

 

[Meow Mix]

God does not 'dislike' homosexuals.... just because he does not like the sort of sex they practice does not mean that he does not like 'them'

he sets the same standards for all people no matter what their beliefs, orientation, nationality, likes, dislikes....he has had the same standards he always had and his door is open to any who can make room for him.

Why would he create some people who can never experience love for another person then, since doing so would be a "sin?"

Why would God care how someone has sex anyway?

 

[Pegg]

Why would he create some people who can never experience love for another person then, since doing so would be a "sin?"

Why would God care how someone has sex anyway?

He does not create things that go against his own ideals. He is a God of law, order & purpose and everything he makes has its proper place.

You mentioned rapists earlier... they might claim that they are just having sex, but in reality they are using sex as a tool of terror and domination....that is sex taken to an extreme and far from its intended purpose. Then there are those who use sex as a punishment, then there are those who have sex with children and the list goes on. God is rightly concerned when sex is taken out of its right context because sex has a higher purpose then mere gratification.

 

[Smoke]

God is rightly concerned when sex is taken out of its right context because sex has a higher purpose then mere gratification.

If God's purpose for sex was to allow the morally retarded to reveal themselves by making up a lot of ridiculous rules about it, he has achieved his purpose magnificently.

 

[TEXASBULL]

I have a gay brother in law who is in his late 30's. I remember him saying to me one time

" imagine if everyone told you you had to like men and desire men. How would you feel if they told you being attracted to a girl was wrong and try to set you up with a man? That is how I feel when I think about myself with a girl."

That really floored me and got me to start thinking. This man really feels this way, for whatever reason. Why should I or anyone else force him not to pursue what is natural to him.

I would flip out if I have to date and kiss another man. It is totally gross to me. You see? Thats what My brother in law feels like in this society.

Also , if you look at pictures of him when he was like 6 years old, you could already see he was gay. He had a feminine mannerisms all his life. Are you trying to say it was a " choice " for him? at 6 years old to act like a girl???!!!

A little common sense an realize some people are just born this way and get over it!