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Homosexuality Research: Can or Can't Change

tomato1236

Ninja Master
Here are two youtube videos about this subject:

[youtube]jnxYQOyLvly[/youtube]
[youtube]jnxYQOyLvIy[/youtube]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnxYQOyLvIy What Makes People Gay?

[youtube]DNpzqNbcN10[/youtube]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNpzqNbcN10&feature=related Aren't we designed for heterosexuality?

Hm. This isn't exactly what I was looking for. The first vid didn't work (isn't available) and the second video is a guy's opinion, no different from what I read on this forum. Your opinion and my opinion carry just as much weight as this guy's. I'm looking for studies.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Here are some more papers to consider:
* A June 2006 Canadian study published in the journal, “Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,” said that nature, instead of nurture, explains the origins of homosexuality. The study’ author, Prof. Anthony F. Bogaert, at Brock University in Ontario, explored the causes behind what is known as the fraternal birth order. The research showed a correlation between the number of biological older brothers a man has and his sexual orientation. Dividing his sample of more than 900 heterosexual and homosexual men into four groups, Bogaert examined the impact of all types of older brothers, including step and adopted siblings, and the amount of time brothers spent together while growing up.His research found that only the number of biological brothers had an impact on sexuality, regardless of whether the boys were raised together.
- Bogaert, A.F. 2006. Biological versus nonbiological older brothers and men’s sexual orientation. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 103 July 11 2006.
* A study released in May 2006 by Swedish scientists demonstrates that biology plays a key role in determining a person’ sexuality. The research shows that the portion of the brain that helps regulate sexuality — the hypothalamus – reacted the exact same way in straight women and gay men when exposed to male pheromones, which are chemicals designed to provoke a behavior, such as sexual arousal. The same area of the brain only became stimulated in heterosexual men when introduced to female pheromones.
- by Ivanka Savic article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, (PNAS) “Brain Response To Putative Pheromones In Homosexual Men,” (Vol. 102 No. 19) May 10, 2005.
* In 2005, Dr. Brian Mustanski of the University of Illinois at Chicago published a study in the esteemed biomedical journal Human Genetics, claiming he identified three chromosomal regions linked to sexual orientation in men: 7q36, 8p12 and 10q26.
- “A Genomewide Scan of Male Sexual Orientation”, Human Genetics, Vol. 116, No. 4, pp. 272-278, 2005.
* In 2003, University of Texas psychoacoustics specialist Dennis McFadden found that when measuring the way the brain reacts to sound, lesbians fell in between heterosexual men and straight women, suggesting they might be exposed to higher than normal levels of male hormone in utero.
- Loehlin, John C.; McFadden, David. “Otoacoustic emissions, auditory evoked potentials, and traits related to sex and sexual orientation”. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 1 April 2003.
* In 2003, University of Liverpool biologist John T. Manning found that the lesbians whom he studied have a hand pattern that resembles a man’ more than a straight female’. Manning concluded from his study that this “strongly tells us that female homosexuals have had higher levels of exposure to testosterone before birth.”
- Neave, N., Laing, S., Fink, B., Manning, J.T (2003) Second to fourth digit ratio, testosterone, and perceived male dominance. Proceedings of the Royal Society B (Lond), 270, 2167-2172.
* A 1991 study by Dr. Simon LeVay found that a specific region of the hypothalamus is twice as large in heterosexual men as it is in women or gay men. This strongly points the role of biology in sexual orientation.
- Levay, Simon “A difference in hypothalamic structure between homosexual and heterosexual men” Science. 1991 Volume 253, Issue 5023, pp. 1034-1037.
* Another 1991 study by scientists Richard Pillard and John M. Baily studied homosexuality among brothers and found that 53 percent of identical twins were both gay. In adoptive brothers, 11 percent were both homosexual. Of non-twin biological siblings, 9 percent were gay. Again, this points to solid evidence that homosexuality is a matter of nature.
- Bailey JM, Pillard RC (1991). A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, 1089-1096.
* The JUN/JUL 2006 issue of Seed Magazine points out that at least 450 vertebrate species engage in homosexual behavior.
- Lehrer, Jonah. “The Gay Animal kingdom” Seed Magazine. Jun/Jul 2006.
From: Truth Wins Out - Biological Research

And more about the problems with "ex-gay therapy"
Healing homosexuals: A psychologist's journey through the ex-gay movement and the pseudo-science of reparative therapy - Journal of Gay & Lesbian Mental Health
http://drdoughaldeman.com/doc/GayRightsPatientRights.pdf
The Politics of Masculinity and the Ex-Gay Movement — Gender & Society
http://gas.sagepub.com/content/21/5/650
wa:do
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Pending the provision of sources, will you give your perspective, auto?

My perspective. btw I am a middle-aged lesbian and have spent my life talking to other lesbians, former lesbians, and lesbians who are former heterosexuals. My collaborator-in-life was heterosexual until the age of 46. I have read dozens of books on the subject, including many statistical studies on both sexes.

First, twister is completely, totally and utterly wrong.

Second, and this is important, the different between men and women is sex. Therefore it would be surprising if the answer to this question was the same for men and women, and it does not appear to be.

Third, and this is key, it should not inform our policy in any way. The issue is not whether being gay is inborn or immutable, but whether it is right or wrong. It is right, therefore this discussion is irrelevant. If you believe it is wrong, I challenge you to provide a reason other than your religious superstition for saying so.

Fourth, and this is obvious, none of us choose our desires, we all choose our actions.

Fifth, it's complicated, especially for women, and when I have more time I'll share my thoughts about your question.

Sixth, there is a huge difference between asking whether something is inborn and whether it's mutable. My love of coffee is not inborn, but it is immutable. And by the same token, the decision whether to drink coffee is under my control.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Forgot to mention , that most gay men have lacked a powerful, inspiring and affectionate male figure in their lives ( a missing father or a highly unpleasant one etc). Offcorse , different people have different stories.
source?

AND the aspect of psychology which deals with ' reinforcement of negative behaviours as acceptable by some communities' hereby dictating a said , unusual pattern of seeking satisfaction where it is unexplored before, out of sheer curiosity.

Pornograhpy highly playing the defining role of influencing people's personal sexual preferences . Most people refer to 'newer ways of sexual activity' (homosexuality) out of sheer curiosity, becoming addicted to it later on as is the pattern with all said 'religiously or cuturally prohibited behaviours and substances'.
source?

Sex addiction, and homosexuality have been observed to have arisen from the same roots, both hint massively at the sexual nature of these behaviours than anything else, and (most cases) are highly linked to pyschological disorders, (of some sorts) why is that so?

Baloney. What have you been reading, NARTH? Don't you know it's filled with notorious liars, several of whom have been kicked out of their professional organizations for faking research?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I am interested in sources for these claims.

The only one repeated in the things I've read so far is the theory that an emotionally distant father is a common thread among gay men in their childhood. My brother fits this category, but then, so do I. Our father is not very emotionally expressive or affectionate, and was frequently away from the home for work and other activities.

This is false.
 

tomato1236

Ninja Master
My perspective. btw I am a middle-aged lesbian and have spent my life talking to other lesbians, former lesbians, and lesbians who are former heterosexuals. My collaborator-in-life was heterosexual until the age of 46. I have read dozens of books on the subject, including many statistical studies on both sexes.

First, twister is completely, totally and utterly wrong.

Second, and this is important, the different between men and women is sex. Therefore it would be surprising if the answer to this question was the same for men and women, and it does not appear to be.

Third, and this is key, it should not inform our policy in any way. The issue is not whether being gay is inborn or immutable, but whether it is right or wrong. It is right, therefore this discussion is irrelevant. If you believe it is wrong, I challenge you to provide a reason other than your religious superstition for saying so.

Fourth, and this is obvious, none of us choose our desires, we all choose our actions.

Fifth, it's complicated, especially for women, and when I have more time I'll share my thoughts about your question.

Sixth, there is a huge difference between asking whether something is inborn and whether it's mutable. My love of coffee is not inborn, but it is immutable. And by the same token, the decision whether to drink coffee is under my control.

Thanks. I appreciate you sharing your own experience.
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
My question is that why does the past and current lifestyle of most gay people constitute of heavy drinking, drug abuse and in some cases the men actually are well known womanizers before they move on to men for pleasure. Could it be de-sensitization with women? teamed with a liberal overdose of the normal phenomenon and increasing exposure to newer ideas of satisfaction , no matter where they led to?

Yeah I'm sure drinking heavily and womanizing is what leads them to be gay and not just an attempt to cover up the fact that their lying to themselves :rolleyes:
 

tomato1236

Ninja Master
Yeah I'm sure drinking heavily and womanizing is what leads them to be gay and not just an attempt to cover up the fact that their lying to themselves :rolleyes:

If that were the case, (that it was caused by drinking and womanizing), there would be a whole lot more gay people in this world.
 

gerobbins

What's your point?
One in Ten people in the world are gay. That means 700,000,000 people in the world are gay as far as stats go.
That is almost 3 times the population of the United States.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
One in Ten people in the world are gay. That means 700,000,000 people in the world are gay as far as stats go.
That is almost 3 times the population of the United States.

Actually, no. A lot of research has been done since Kinsey, and while there are many difficulties in getting good statistics, it looks more like something like maybe 5% of men and 2-3% of women. Here's an article.
 

gerobbins

What's your point?
Actually, no. A lot of research has been done since Kinsey, and while there are many difficulties in getting good statistics, it looks more like something like maybe 5% of men and 2-3% of women. Here's an article.

Yea, but my point is Homosexuality is just as normal for them as being a Heterosexual is to the rest of us.

Its not a choice, its just genetics.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Fourth, and this is obvious, none of us choose our desires, we all choose our actions.
Many desires come from self created resistance but that is a debate for another thread.
Playing hard to get has worked for some using someone's resistance against them.
Whether sexual preference manifests itself consciously I do not know but many desires do manifest themselves consciously.
many people spend there life not being true to themselves and are more subconsciously driven to not be like mom or dad.
Point being, what you hold onto consciously and subconsciously effects desire to a great degree.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Hi.

I've been doing some research, and I would like some help from others who may have already found better sources than I have. I'm looking for specific examples of individuals who have, to one degree or another, become legitimately heterosexual after identifying themselves as homosexual. I am also interested in studies that conclusively illustrate that homosexuality is inborn, or that those attracted to the same sex cannot change.

I thought it would be terrific if those who contribute could post studies/examples illustrating results opposite their viewpoint (ie. those who feel homosexuality is created by environmental factors, or choice posting studies that indicate it is genetic or unchangeable, and those who feel it is inborn post studies indicating that some have had success changing their orientation, or that it is environmental/choice.), though I understand if you can't handle doing so. Either way, I would like some evidence on both sides, if it is available.

Thanks,

Tomato

I see that several people have looked at this and passed it by. Too dangerous? Don't want to be the first? Ok. I'll help.
No, not too dangerous. There are no legitimate studies of people truly changing their orientation. Just like there are no legitimate studies of people genuinely changing their hair color. Dye it all you want, the roots keep coming back.
 

gerobbins

What's your point?
No, not too dangerous. There are no legitimate studies of people truly changing their orientation. Just like there are no legitimate studies of people genuinely changing their hair color. Dye it all you want, the roots keep coming back.


My question is alway this to those who think homosexuality is a choice.

Do they choose to be Heterosexual? I did not choose to be Heterosexual, I was born that way. Its the way I am. I have no inclinations to being gay and never will. The same goes for Gay people.

b2twa.jpg
 
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England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Hi.

I've been doing some research, and I would like some help from others who may have already found better sources than I have. I'm looking for specific examples of individuals who have, to one degree or another, become legitimately heterosexual after identifying themselves as homosexual. I am also interested in studies that conclusively illustrate that homosexuality is inborn, or that those attracted to the same sex cannot change.

I thought it would be terrific if those who contribute could post studies/examples illustrating results opposite their viewpoint (ie. those who feel homosexuality is created by environmental factors, or choice posting studies that indicate it is genetic or unchangeable, and those who feel it is inborn post studies indicating that some have had success changing their orientation, or that it is environmental/choice.), though I understand if you can't handle doing so. Either way, I would like some evidence on both sides, if it is available.

Thanks,

Tomato

I'll give an example of how you are what you are,a freind of mine who was raised a Catholic was born Gay although all his life he fought against it.

He was tormented by his sexualty and this came to a head when he Married a very nice Woman(all ways amazed me how Women were drawn to him) anyway the Marriage was miserable for both of them and he took to the Bottle which made him even more miserable because he not only had the dilema of not being able to divorce because of the RFC,there was also the fact that he was Gay.

He once said to me over a Pint "once a Catholic always a Catholic" this is what tortured him,anyway he "comes out" so to speak and had a loving relationship with another Man,he was happy but at the back of his mind he was still fighting those religious no no's so he took to the bottle which caused a split in his relationship.

This is how it continued,he eventually gave up because he could not be happy with a Woman but his Demons wouldn't let him be with a Man,in the end he drank himself to death,very sad,he was so talented at his profession and a great Guy.
 
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