HOMOSEXUALITY: What the Bible Does & Does Not Say

[wmam]

While I agree that love is definately way far more than sex (but sex is still a way of showing love to your significant someone - and is only part of what constitutes love in a homosexual or heterosexual relationship), I'm kind of having difficulty determining what is meant by some of your statements. Are you equating homosexual sex (or just sex in general

General.........

- heterosexual and homosexual) with rape

Both...........

and/or animals in heat? What do you mean by some of these statements?

I'm glad you asked and didn't, as some would, take it out of context.

Dog in heat?..........

It was my sad attempt at a generalization of how some act when it comes to sex. If you can't control yourself then I would say get help for that. There is such a problem as addiction with almost everything.

 

[standing_alone]

It was my sad attempt at a generalization of how some act when it comes to sex. If you can't control yourself then I would say get help for that. There is such a problem as addiction with almost everything.

Yes, some do act quite like animals when it comes to sex, but I think there is a difference between someone having sex for animalistic urges and having sex with their partner because they are in love. So, if homosexuals partake in loving, bonding sex with their partner, what's the difference from heterosexual couples? Is that sex just bad because it's homosexual? Or is the same type of heterosexual sex animalistic as well?

 

[wmam]

Yes, some do act quite like animals when it comes to sex, but I think there is a difference between someone having sex for animalistic urges and having sex with their partner because they are in love. So, if homosexuals partake in loving, bonding sex with their partner, what's the difference from heterosexual couples? Is that sex just bad because it's homosexual? Or is the same type of heterosexual sex animalistic as well?

The difference is that of transgression of YAH's law. Whether one deems it bad or not isn't the issue. Whether it's homosexual or heterosexual, isn't the issue. If it transgresses the law of YAH then it is sin. What one personally thinks and feels about it is irrelevant to the will of YAH. This is of course if you are one that cares about the will of YAH and are wanting to be one with YAH. YAH is not going to allow someone to be one with Him that picks and chooses what is or isn't His wishes. He has made known, full well, what His wishes are and man continues to try and distort them. See, when one chooses not to obey YAH, and does not His will, then He leaves them to their own devices. He gives them over to a reprobate mind. They just can't see the truth even if it fell like a ton of bricks out of the sky and hit them right on the head. They still would deny the truth because the only thing they have ever known was what was forced fed them for their entire life. And if it isn't the truth, then it must be a lie.

In my belief and the way I look at things.......... You either will or you won't or you'll do or you don't . The choice is completely up to you.

 

[standing_alone]

The difference is that of transgression of YAH's law. Whether one deems it bad or not isn't the issue. Whether it's homosexual or heterosexual, isn't the issue. If it transgresses the law of YAH then it is sin. What one personally thinks and feels about it is irrelevant to the will of YAH. This is of course if you are one that cares about the will of YAH and are wanting to be one with YAH. YAH is not going to allow someone to be one with Him that picks and chooses what is or isn't His wishes. He has made known, full well, what His wishes are and man continues to try and distort them. See, when one chooses not to obey YAH, and does not His will, then He leaves them to their own devices. He gives them over to a reprobate mind. They just can't see the truth even if it fell like a ton of bricks out of the sky and hit them right on the head. They still would deny the truth because the only thing they have ever known was what was forced fed them for their entire life. And if it isn't the truth, then it must be a lie.

So let me see if I got this right:

SEX = SIN (unless Yah states so otherwise)

 

[wmam]

So let me see if I got this right:

SEX = SIN (unless Yah states so otherwise)

You got that from what I posted?

I never said "sex=sin". I did, however, state that if, and I mean "IF", it transgresses the law of YAH, then it is sin.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

how can sex be a sin....without it we obviously woudnt be here..

 

[standing_alone]

I did, however, state that if, and I mean "IF", it transgresses the law of YAH, then it is sin.

So what types of sex transgress the law of Yah. All acts that aren't for the sole purpose of procreation? AND I MEAN that that is the only reason for the act? If a couple is having sex not for the purpose of conceiving a child, is that a sin?

 

[nutshell]

So what types of sex transgress the law of Yah. All acts that aren't for the sole purpose of procreation? AND I MEAN that that is the only reason for the act? If a couple is having sex not for the purpose of conceiving a child, is that a sin?

I believe sex is for pleasure as well as long as it is within the bonds of marriage.

 

[standing_alone]

I believe sex is for pleasure as well as long as it is within the bonds of marriage.

I disagree with you that sex for pleasure outside of marriage is wrong, but from what I understand of your religious beliefs, I can accept and respect your view on that. I definately agree that sex for merely pleasure inside marriage is plenty fine as well. Just as I think there is nothing wrong with remaining a virgin until marriage. But I don't think one religious school of thought should determine what should be done by others. I should have the ability to marry a woman and/or have sex with a woman, you and/or others can hate me for that, but if your god does turn out to be the supreme judge, he can deal with me then. But right now in a "secular" nation, I think I should have the right to marry a woman and/or have sex with a woman (without being condemned by certain groups of people), if she is who I am in love with and want to devote myself to.

 

[nutshell]

you and/or others can hate me for that

I don't hate you.

I'm not judging you.

I don't even know you.

 

[standing_alone]

I don't hate you.

I'm not judging you.

I don't even know you.

Oh sorry. I didn't mean to say that I think you hate me or would hate me. I'm basically saying "Someone can have a problem with how I live my life or disagree with aspects of it, but they shouldn't force me to change or make laws to discriminate against me because of their religious beliefs. If their god exists, he or she will deal with me as fit." I guess I should be more clear on things. I'm having a problem with that lately. :bonk:

 

[gnostic]

Where does it say anywhere in gospels or other part of New Testament, to persecute gays or lesbians?

It seemed that Christians still like to single out minority.

The biggest irony is the Christianity were once a minority group. It is unfortunate that many Christians haven't learnt the lessons of early persecuted Christians. Even today, they are persecuting others.

 

[wmam]

So what types of sex transgress the law of Yah. All acts that aren't for the sole purpose of procreation? AND I MEAN that that is the only reason for the act? If a couple is having sex not for the purpose of conceiving a child, is that a sin?

KJV........

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
Lev 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
Lev 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

I'm sure there are other verses but I haven't the time........

I don't believe having sex with your wife for other than procreation is a sin, in and of itself. I could think of a number of reasons where it might be considered sin but that would entail mischief. I only stated that I, personally, believe that sex is a poor way to choose to show you love your wife. There are many other ways of showing love that doesn't include taking off clothing that would mean more and have more of a lasting effect than that of the simple act of sex. Don't get me wrong......... I enjoy sex. I just don't live for it.

 

[wmam]

I couldn't find right off where in the NT that it said that others were to persecute the homosexual although what I did find doesn't sound pretty...........


Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of Elohim into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. So be it.
Rom 1:26 For this cause Elohim gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain Elohim in their knowledge, Elohim gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of Elohim, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of Elohim, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[gnostic]

I don't like Paul, anyway. Jesus told everyone he taught not to judge or persecute others, so I don't really care what Paul say; he was not among the original apostles. Jesus didn't incite his followers to take up arms in rebellion or become unruly mobs. Something that Christians ignored when they gained political powers in Rome and Constantiople. He asked people to the sheep, not wolves.

I may not be a Christian, and I may not know as much about the bible as others, but I have read enough to understand Jesus' teaching about peace and compassionate, and know enough of history of what Christians have done in God's name and Jesus', and those are often not pleasant.

Do your quotes from the Romans, gives you and other Christians the "green light" persecute others?

 

[Flappycat]

Not really... I don't think it's for another thread as such. i'd like to know your view on it as i think that homosexual relations in general are outside of marriage and therefore would constitute adultery or fornication.

Think this through. Marriage isn't something that is doled out by the state. The state never has and never will have much part in who is and is not married, nor can any religious institution. Marriage is strictly defined by the behavior of two people. It is a joining together of two lives into one, and this can occur without a religion and without a state. I don't know when people came to be so shallow as to equate marriage with the obtaining of a marriage license or a formal wedding, but it's probably one of the main reasons for the high divorce rate in this country. The legal and ritual aspects need to be left as secondary to what it really means to be married. It's a joining of lives and a joining of families.

Also, the point is not that conservative interpretations are outdated. The point is that they were false to begin with. This is an uncontrovertible fact.

 

[Flappycat]

I'd also like to point out that the laws in leviticus were meant specifically for the people they were spoken to. They meant nothing to anyone else in any other culture of that time or any other.

 

[wmam]

I don't like Paul, anyway. Jesus told everyone he taught not to judge or persecute others, so I don't really care what Paul say; he was among the original apostles. Jesus didn't incite his followers to take up arms in rebellion or become unruly mobs. Something that Christians ignored when they gained political powers in Rome and Constantiople. He asked people to the sheep, not wolves.

I may not be a Christian, and I may not know as much about the bible as others, but I have read enough to understand Jesus' teaching about peace and compassionate, and know enough of history of what Christians have done in God's name and Jesus', and those are often not pleasant.

Do your quotes from the Romans, gives you and other Christians the "green light" persecute others?

Ummmmmmmm...............
Your question was..........

Where does it say anywhere in gospels or other part of New Testament, to persecute gays or lesbians?

And my answer was............

I couldn't find right off where in the NT that it said that others were to persecute the homosexual although what I did find doesn't sound pretty...........
Rom 1:25-32

And you end your reply with...........

Do your quotes from the Romans, gives you and other Christians the "green light" persecute others?

But I started my answer with.............

I couldn't find right off where in the NT that it said that others were to persecute the homosexual although what I did find doesn't sound pretty...........

And no, I do not believe that these particular verses give permission t anyone to persecute anyone.
I just thought it was good reading and offered it up.

Anyway, Why do you falsely accuse me?

 

[wmam]

I'd also like to point out that the laws in leviticus were meant specifically for the people they were spoken to. They meant nothing to anyone else in any other culture of that time or any other.

So you agree that the One who gave the law is the One who created all?

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Homosexuality is rarely mentioned in the bible.

So if you base your theism solely on the bible then you would conclude that it is not considered a major problem by anyone but maybe a few.

Jesus I doubt was much concerned about homosexuality as a sin.
Some people simply are gay, they hardly choose their preference they just are, they will actually fall in love with same sex partners.

Other people are simply sexually promiscuous and dont mind having sex with members of the same gender if sexual gratification is the end result.

Its the second type of homosexual occurence that perhaps people subconciously dissaprove of.
Maybe its seems to the people then as it does to us a bit greedy.