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Homosexuality

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AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Because it is abhorrent for people of conscinece to have to view sexual perversion.

As long as marriage is a legal recognition of a sexual partnership, no self respecting Christian can approve of it because it would legitimize sin. I wouldn't give anyone a license to steal either.

Whatever innapropriate reactions homosexuals have to straight couples can't determine that appropriate actions by straights are innappropriate.

1. A sexual "perversion" is one that is abnormal. Homsexuality is a natural occurance. Uncommon, certainly, but hardly a "perversion".

2. By your scewed "logic", sterile people should not be permitted to marry. Marriage is a confirmation of love, a public display of a commitment to a life long relationship, and a venue to over a thousand plus rights and privilages.
And since when has this coutnry revovled around your religion's Moral Set?

3. Double standard, anyone?

And some people wonder why I so vehemently fight to return this Nation's original Motto and Pledge.
 

soleil10

Member
"I think that you will agree with me that redesigning such fundamental intitution will redesign our society."
It is estimated that 3-5% of population is homosexuals in the US, many of which of who do not want marriage. Not exactly redesigning society.
Besides making marriage law in the first place was "redesigning our society". Some of you, seem to forgot that this is America: tolerance, equality and liberty is the design that our society is meant to achieve. So, it is not us who is trying to redesign society, it is you; we are only trying to realize the American Dream.

Are you from New Jersey ? The American Dream is the slogan Garden State Equaliry is using to steal marriage there.
Once you redesign the basic unit of society, you affect and destabilize the whole.
Look at the agenda of the "beyond marriage manifesto" below. It is much more than ss "marriage"between 2 people

Beyond Same-Sex Marriage: A New Strategic Vision For All Our Families and Relationships

The time has come to reframe the narrow terms of the marriage debate in the United States. Conservatives are seeking to enshrine discrimination in the U.S. Constitution through the Federal Marriage Amendment. But their opposition to same-sex marriage is only one part of a broader pro-marriage, “family values” agenda that includes abstinence-only sex education, stringent divorce laws, coercive marriage promotion policies directed toward women on welfare, and attacks on reproductive freedom. Moreover, a thirty-year political assault on the social safety net has left households with more burdens and constraints and fewer resources.

Meanwhile, the LGBT movement has recently focused on marriage equality as a stand-alone issue. While this strategy may secure rights and benefits for some LGBT families, it has left us isolated and vulnerable to a virulent backlash. We must respond to the full scope of the conservative marriage agenda by building alliances across issues and constituencies. Our strategies must be visionary, creative, and practical to counter the right's powerful and effective use of marriage as a “wedge” issue that pits one group against another. The struggle for marriage rights should be part of a larger effort to strengthen the stability and security of diverse households and families. To that end, we advocate:
Ø Legal recognition for a wide range of relationships, households and families – regardless of kinship or conjugal status.

Ø Access for all, regardless of marital or citizenship status, to vital government support programs including but not limited to health care, housing, Social Security and pension plans, disaster recovery assistance, unemployment insurance and welfare assistance.

Ø Separation of church and state in all matters, including regulation and recognition of relationships, households and families.

Ø Freedom from state regulation of our sexual lives and gender choices, identities and expression.
Marriage is not the only worthy form of family or relationship, and it should not be legally and economically privileged above all others. A majority of people – whatever their sexual and gender identities – do not live in traditional nuclear families. They stand to gain from alternative forms of household recognition beyond one-size-fits-all marriage. For example:
· Single parent households
· Senior citizens living together and serving as each other’s caregivers (think Golden Girls)
· Blended and extended families
· Children being raised in multiple households or by unmarried parents
· Adult children living with and caring for their parents
· Senior citizens who are the primary caregivers to their grandchildren or other relatives
· Close friends or siblings living in non-conjugal relationships and serving as each other’s primary support and caregivers
· Households in which there is more than one conjugal partner
· Care-giving relationships that provide support to those living with extended illness such as HIV/AIDS.

The current debate over marriage, same-sex and otherwise, ignores the needs and desires of so many in a nation where household diversity is the demographic norm. We seek to reframe this debate. Our call speaks to the widespread hunger for authentic and just community in ways that are both pragmatic and visionary.

It follows in the best tradition of the progressive LGBT movement, which invented alternative legal statuses such as domestic partnership and reciprocal beneficiary. We seek to build on these historic accomplishments by continuing to diversify and democratize partnership and household recognition. We advocate the expansion of existing legal statuses, social services and benefits to support the needs of all our households.

We call on colleagues working in various social justice movements and campaigns to read the full-text of our statement “Beyond Same-Sex Marriage: A New Strategic Vision,” and to join us in our call for government support of all our households.
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
soliel: Shouldn't you be responding to what people are posting here, not tilting at windmills that no one is advocating?
 

McBell

Unbound
Now if someone would be so kind as to teach me how to do this......before he does another hate speech alert.
Click on User CP:
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Click on Edit Ignore List:
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Enter name in box
click on 'Okay'

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soleil10

Member
I don't know exactly what you mean by free spirited, but I think a good marriage would not prevent your free spirit. Certainly many marriages would not be conducive to your version of free spirit, but I don't think marriage itself has to be that way. I don't think mine is.

The New York Times is working on redefining marriage as part of their ss "marriage" propaganda. Open ss"marriage" may save marriage according to them. Multi conjugal marriage is what they really want to promote once they hijack marriage. SS "marriage" is the trojan horse.

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret

By SCOTT JAMES
Published: January 28, 2010

When Rio and Ray married in 2008, the Bay Area women omitted two words from their wedding vows: fidelity and monogamy.
“I take it as a gift that someone will be that open and honest and sharing with me,” said Rio, using the word “open” to describe their marriage.

Love brought the middle-age couple together — they wed during California’s brief legal window for same-sex marriage. But they knew from the beginning that their bond would be forged on their own terms, including what they call “play” with other women.
As the trial phase of the constitutional battle to overturn the Proposition 8 ban on same-sex marriage concludes in federal court, gay nuptials are portrayed by opponents as an effort to rewrite the traditional rules of matrimony. Quietly, outside of the news media and courtroom spotlight, many gay couples are doing just that, according to groundbreaking new research.

A study to be released next month is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many. Some gay men and lesbians argue that, as a result, they have stronger, longer-lasting and more honest relationships. And while that may sound counterintuitive, some experts say boundary-challenging gay relationships represent an evolution in marriage — one that might point the way for the survival of the institution.

New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years — about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

The study also found open gay couples just as happy in their relationships as pairs in sexually exclusive unions, Dr. Hoff said. A different study, published in 1985, concluded that open gay relationships actually lasted longer.

None of this is news in the gay community, but few will speak publicly about it. Of the dozen people in open relationships contacted for this column, no one would agree to use his or her full name, citing privacy concerns. They also worried that discussing the subject could undermine the legal fight for same-sex marriage.
According to the research, open relationships almost always have rules.

That is how it works for Chris and James. Over drinks upstairs at the venerable Twin Peaks Tavern in the Castro neighborhood of San Francisco, they beamed as they recalled the day in June 2008 that they donned black suits and wed at City Hall, stunned by the outpouring of affection from complete strangers. “Even homeless people and bike messengers were congratulating us,” said Chris, 42.

A couple since 2002, they opened their relationship a year ago after concluding that they were not fully meeting each other’s needs. But they have rules: complete disclosure, honesty about all encounters, advance approval of partners, and no sex with strangers — they must both know the other men first. “We check in with each other on this an awful lot,” said James, 37.

That transparency can make relationships stronger, said Joe Quirk, author of the best-selling relationship book “It’s Not You, It’s Biology.”
“The combination of freedom and mutual understanding can foster a unique level of trust,” Mr. Quirk, of Oakland, said.

“The traditional American marriage is in crisis, and we need insight,” he said, citing the fresh perspective gay couples bring to matrimony. “If innovation in marriage is going to occur, it will be spearheaded by homosexual marriages.”
Open relationships are not exclusively a gay domain, of course. Deb and Marius are heterosexual, live in the East Bay and have an open marriage. She belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and maintained her virginity until her wedding day at 34. But a few years later, when the relationship sputtered, both she and her husband, who does not belong to the church, began liaisons with others.
“Our relationship got better,” she said. “I slept better at night. My blood pressure went down.”

Deb and Marius also have rules, including restrictions on extramarital intercourse. “To us,” Marius said, “cheating would be breaking the agreement we have with each other. We define our relationship, not a religious group.”

So while the legal fight over same-sex marriage plays out, couples say the real battle is making relationships last — and their answers defy the prevailing definition of marriage.

“In 1900, the average life span for a U.S. citizen was 47,” Mr. Quirk said. “Now we’re living so much longer, ‘until death do us part’ is twice as challenging.”
Scott James is an Emmy-winning television journalist and novelist who lives in San Francisco.
 
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AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Are you from New Jersey ? The American Dream is the slogan Garden State Equaliry is using to steal marriage there.
Once you redesign the basic unit of society, you affect and destabilize the whole.
Look at the agenda of the "beyond marriage am ifesto" below. It is much more than ss "marriage"between 2 people.

Polygamy is a matter for future debate. Try and stay focused.

And the empirical evidence offered by those States and Nations that have embraced the 21st Century completely dismantles your "basic unit of society" fallacy.

The New York Times is working on redefining marriage as part of their ss "marriage" propaganda. Open ss"marriage" may save marriageaccording to them. Multi conjugal marriage is what they really want to promote once they hijack marriage. SS "marriage" is the trojan horse.

Mass, the first state to drop the medieval, draconian mentality you support, and to fully understand Equality, has THE lowest divorce rate in the nation, go figure.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Well 60% of American husbands cheat, so I do think honesty and consent is a better model than lying and cheating.
 

soleil10

Member
Polygamy is a matter for future debate. Try and stay focused. And the empirical evidence offered by those States and Nations that have embraced the 21st Century completely dismantles your "basic unit of society" fallacy.
I am very focused. Read the New York Times article.

Mass, the first state to drop the medieval, draconian mentality you support, and to fully understand Equality, has The lowest divorce rate in the nation, go figure.

Actually, you are not correct. The average marriage age in Mass is now 29/30 years old. People marry later

If you compare demographic, ethnicity and income level, this story about Mass is just bogus.

For instance in Alabama/Mississipi , the marriage age is 23/24 years old. There are more poor people and less people going to college

You need to compare correctly. It is the same with Europe. Some countries with ss marriage are now down to only 35% of people being married and over 60% out of wedlock births.

Anyone can make a claim that they do not have a lot of divorce, without mentioning that they are facing marriage dissolution.

I can see through the propaganda miles away.

There is little honesty in all this ss "marriage' business.

As you say go figure. Actually I do
 
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MSizer

MSizer
...about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”....

What a load of BS! If the partner knows about it and approves, it's not cheating! It's when you do something behind your partner's back on purpose, that is cheating! Oh, and by the way, it's estimated that somewhere between 50-70% of married people have cheated on thier spouse. You can mainly thank traditional married couples for that lovely stat.

My wife and I have an open marriage, and we're very happy with it. We have certain rules that we established up front about it, but we're not monogamous, only because we know that monogamy would be bad for our marriage.

You have not made even a consistent case let alone substantiated one that traditional marriage in america should be practiced by all.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
The why even marry ? :confused:

It's up the the individuals--not my choice, or most lesbians, but for those who choose it, I'd guess that there's much more to marriage than sexual exclusivity. Just guessing, really. In any case, it's much better than all that heterosexual cheating.
 

soleil10

Member
What a load of BS! If the partner knows about it and approves, it's not cheating! It's when you do something behind your partner's back on purpose, that is cheating! Oh, and by the way, it's estimated that somewhere between 50-70% of married people have cheated on thier spouse. You can mainly thank traditional married couples for that lovely stat.

Wow !!! Very good bogus justification. Blame it on somebody else. That is a mature way of living. There are also studies that cheating is good for marriage, if this can help.

My wife and I have an open marriage, and we're very happy with it. We have certain rules that we established up front about it, but we're not monogamous, only because we know that monogamy would be bad for our marriage.
I knew that. That why I responded to your post

You have not made even a consistent case let alone substantiated one that traditional marriage in america should be practiced by all.
I would not even try MSizer. It is a bitte late to try
 

stiletto

Naughty But Nice
What I meant is, straight people cannot even understand what being gay is like. They have no idea what it is to be attracted to someone of the same sex, and not the opposite sex. They don't understand anything about it, and you know what they say about speaking about things of which you have no knowledge.

I'm straight. I imagine being gay as loving and being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I imagine it to be the same as when I love or am sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Please explain how I am wrong and cannot even understand what being gay is like.

BTW, I also assume that being gay is not a choice because I don't remember waking up one day and choosing to be straight.
 

MSizer

MSizer
I'm straight. I imagine being gay as loving and being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I imagine it to be the same as when I love or am sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Please explain how I am wrong and cannot even understand what being gay is like.

BTW, I also assume that being gay is not a choice because I don't remember waking up one day and choosing to be straight.

I was wondering the same thing. I expect there are probably little annoyances (or maybe even big ones) resulting from being treated differently than straights by intolerant people, but gayness itself I don't expect is much different than straightness (which I think is what stiletto is implying too).
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I'm straight. I imagine being gay as loving and being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I imagine it to be the same as when I love or am sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Please explain how I am wrong and cannot even understand what being gay is like.

BTW, I also assume that being gay is not a choice because I don't remember waking up one day and choosing to be straight.

I am addressing people who believe that homosexuality is a choice, and such. They don't even know what sexuality is, or they'd know one cannot choose who they're attracted to. I'm saying they don't understand, but they don't even understand sexuality period obviously.
 

stiletto

Naughty But Nice
I was wondering the same thing. I expect there are probably little annoyances (or maybe even big ones) resulting from being treated differently than straights by intolerant people, but gayness itself I don't expect is much different than straightness (which I think is what stiletto is implying too).

And by being treated different and discriminated against by intolerant bigots, I think this could actually help a gay couple make their relationships stronger, through supporting each other, forming stronger bonds, and helping each other stand up against discrimination. A complete guess on my part though.
 

stiletto

Naughty But Nice
I am addressing people who believe that homosexuality is a choice, and such. They don't even know what sexuality is, or they'd know one cannot choose who they're attracted to. I'm saying they don't understand, but they don't even understand sexuality period obviously.

Okay... so I think we are agreeing... homophobes don't understand sexuality. Perhaps it's a side-effect of the inbreeding. :D
 

MSizer

MSizer
I am addressing people who believe that homosexuality is a choice...

OK well that's different then - you said straight people originally in the post. I'm not just trying to be picky for the sake of being annoying, just that wording matters so much in order to avoid misinterpretation.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Yes I often post responses to quickly and put my foot in my mouth. It happens to us all? Yes?
 
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