How about we defund UNRWA ?

[icehorse]

Just to clarify, I didn’t answer your question.
I said yes I read the article.

I dont know much how and what exactly the UN accepted from UNWRA but I am open to learn.

Human development en stopped being refugees.
So you are saying these 2 things UNWRA is not doing anymore.

So human development, don’t know the details but it seems like they have projects in play.. or is there something specific you like to adres because it’s a very broad field?

https://www.unrwa.org/resources/strategy-policy/unrwa-and-sustainable-development-goals-sdgs

Is UNWRA job to stop refugees considered to be refugees. Last time I checked the UN assumed this was a temporary solution for the refugee problem until a 2 state solution is made?

Yes, in general organizations like UNRWA are meant to settle refugees one way or another, in a timely manner.

As I understand it, there was a similar organization after the Korean War, UNKRA, and within a few years UNKRA settled over 3 million refugees. Far more than UNRWA has done after 75 years!

So what exactly has UNRWA been doing for 75 years to settle the refugees in its care?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Yes, in general organizations like UNRWA are meant to settle refugees one way or another, in a timely manner.

As I understand it, there was a similar organization after the Korean War, UNKRA, and within a few years UNKRA settled over 3 million refugees. Far more than UNRWA has done after 75 years!

So what exactly has UNRWA been doing for 75 years to settle the refugees in its care?

Settle the refugees where?

I don’t know much about Korea but i would say sure the organization looks the same but the situation itself if the conflict is different. A state invading a other state?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For the sake of discussion, let's take your definition of Palestine, and say Israel is the rest of where Israelis live.

So how does my proposal "literally" constitute ethnic cleansing?

Because they're refugees in the first place due to ethnic cleansing from their homeland and the illegal occupation of their land. You're asking them to give up any claim to that land or hope of returning. That's really gross. I shouldn't have to spell everything out to you.

 

[icehorse]

Because they're refugees in the first place due to ethnic cleansing from their homeland and the illegal occupation of their land. You're asking them to give up any claim to that land or hope of returning. That's really gross. I shouldn't have to spell everything out to you.

In the last 100 years, 10s of millions of people have become refugees because of all the wars humans have had. Other than Palestinians, all of those other refugees have been settled and are no longer refugees.

I shouldn't have to spell everything out for you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In the last 100 years, 10s of millions of people have become refugees because of all the wars humans have had. Other than Palestinians, all of those other refugees have been settled and are no longer refugees.

I shouldn't have to spell everything out for you.

This isn't a war where people are fleeing temporary violence, and the situation is not settled. They were thrown off of their land and that land is now illegally occupied. They didn't voluntarily leave like refugees generally do. The Israelis are literally stealing people's homes. Those people have a legal right to their property. Many of them still have the deeds to their homes and land.

 

[icehorse]

This isn't a war where people are fleeing temporary violence, and the situation is not settled. They were thrown off of their land and that land is now illegally occupied. They didn't voluntarily leave like refugees generally do. The Israelis are literally stealing people's homes. Those people have a legal right to their property. Many of them still have the deeds to their homes and land.

How was the 1948 war different than other wars and how are the perpetual Palestinian refugees different than all the other millions of refugees in the world? You seem to be telling us what's true of all wars and all refugees, correct?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How was the 1948 war different than other wars and how are the perpetual Palestinian refugees different than all the other millions of refugees in the world? You seem to be telling us what's true of all wars and all refugees, correct?

If you had bothered to read my post you are replying to, you'd see that it answers those questions. Now go and read it before responding again, please.

 

[icehorse]

This isn't a war where people are fleeing temporary violence, and the situation is not settled. They were thrown off of their land and that land is now illegally occupied. They didn't voluntarily leave like refugees generally do. The Israelis are literally stealing people's homes. Those people have a legal right to their property. Many of them still have the deeds to their homes and land.

What you're contending here is what you could contend about every war. There are winners and losers in war and the losers are frequently displaced. In the last 100 years there have been 10s of millions of people "thrown off their land" due to war. What part of the horrible reality of all wars are you finding confusing?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What you're contending here is what you could contend about every war. There are winners and losers in war and the losers are frequently displaced. In the last 100 years there have been 10s of millions of people "thrown off their land" due to war. What part of the horrible reality of all wars are you finding confusing?

Name one war that shares the same characteristics to what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. Since you think it's all the same (which it isn't but I'll humor you), I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of examples.

 

[oldbadger]

Recently @oldbadger asked how we could end the conflict in Israel and Gaza?

Here's an interesting take:

- Eliminate UNRWA, since it's really not doing what it was supposed to be doing.
- Provide aid ONLY for those Palestinians who relinquish their refugee status and declare they will not pursue a "right of return".

You want some food, drink?
Yes! Were starving and thirsty!
Are you refugees?
Yes! We've been running for a while year!
Oh well........no help for you!

As a bit of history, Palestinians have now claimed to be "refugees" for 75 years! Across the globe, 10s of millions of refugees from other conflicts have moved to a new home and dropped their refugee status. Why not the Palestinians? Well, UNRWA has been using its funds to help keep the violent "right of return" dream alive.

Refugees need to run to safety, but many also want to go back home when it is safer.

Would you like all your refugees to go back home when it's safer? Yes?

 

[sayak83]

And what exactly constitutes Palestine?

The entire land including all of Israel.

 

[sayak83]

Recently @oldbadger asked how we could end the conflict in Israel and Gaza?

Here's an interesting take:

- Eliminate UNRWA, since it's really not doing what it was supposed to be doing.
- Provide aid ONLY for those Palestinians who relinquish their refugee status and declare they will not pursue a "right of return".

As a bit of history, Palestinians have now claimed to be "refugees" for 75 years! Across the globe, 10s of millions of refugees from other conflicts have moved to a new home and dropped their refugee status. Why not the Palestinians? Well, UNRWA has been using its funds to help keep the violent "right of return" dream alive.

If Zionist Jews did not drop their refugee status for 2000 years after Romans drove them out of their holy land, why would Palestine drop it in a mere 100 years?

 

[sayak83]

Recently @oldbadger asked how we could end the conflict in Israel and Gaza?

Here's an interesting take:

- Eliminate UNRWA, since it's really not doing what it was supposed to be doing.
- Provide aid ONLY for those Palestinians who relinquish their refugee status and declare they will not pursue a "right of return".

As a bit of history, Palestinians have now claimed to be "refugees" for 75 years! Across the globe, 10s of millions of refugees from other conflicts have moved to a new home and dropped their refugee status. Why not the Palestinians? Well, UNRWA has been using its funds to help keep the violent "right of return" dream alive.

If Zionist Jews did not drop their refugee status for 2000 years after Romans drove them out of their holy land, why would Palestine drop it in a mere 100 years?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Would you accept this as a good description of what they're supposed to be doing?:

UNRWA - Wikipedia

Its known that the UNRWA textbooks teach children to become Jew haters. I posted about it well before Israel made these allegations at the UN. In 2021 Biden renewed the (canceled) contract with UNRWA on the basis of the Framework for Cooperation document which would require UNRWA in future:

"to implement various reforms, including combating incitement and antisemitism in its educational curriculum, requiring the neutrality of its staff, and ensuring UNRWA facilities are not used by terrorist organizations and its staff are not affiliated with them..." according to the 2021 article in Foreign Policy. Link here: "https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/05/unrwa-palestine-israel-refugees-united-states-funding-corruption-education/"​

I notice that the article gives a false impression. "The allegations" Israel makes about textbooks are not recent, not new and are only made by Israel. They are facts, so the article misleads about them.

Here's an interesting take:

- Eliminate UNRWA, since it's really not doing what it was supposed to be doing.
- Provide aid ONLY for those Palestinians who relinquish their refugee status and declare they will not pursue a "right of return".

As a bit of history, Palestinians have now claimed to be "refugees" for 75 years! Across the globe, 10s of millions of refugees from other conflicts have moved to a new home and dropped their refugee status. Why not the Palestinians? Well, UNRWA has been using its funds to help keep the violent "right of return" dream alive.

I don't know about a sudden change.

If the framework and its 2021 form is enforced (which I don't have any way of knowing if it is) then its really too little too late anyway. All of this time the UNRWA funding has been teaching children to hate their neighboring country. Pulling funding now may be the wrong move. May be. It could be the right move if you have something to replace it. Simply cutting the funding without some kind of other framework might be a bad idea, however I do not trust the UNRWA which is at least partly responsible for the current war.

 

[icehorse]

Its known that the UNRWA textbooks teach children to become Jew haters. I posted about it well before Israel made these allegations at the UN. In 2021 Biden renewed the (canceled) contract with UNRWA on the basis of the Framework for Cooperation document which would require UNRWA in future:
"to implement various reforms, including combating incitement and antisemitism in its educational curriculum, requiring the neutrality of its staff, and ensuring UNRWA facilities are not used by terrorist organizations and its staff are not affiliated with them..." according to the 2021 article in Foreign Policy. Link here: "https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/05/unrwa-palestine-israel-refugees-united-states-funding-corruption-education/"
I notice that the article gives a false impression. "The allegations" Israel makes about textbooks are not recent, not new and are only made by Israel. They are facts, so the article misleads about them.

I wasn't aware of the "Framework for Cooperation" document, that's a positive sign.

I don't know about a sudden change.

If the framework and its 2021 form is enforced (which I don't have any way of knowing if it is) then its really too little too late anyway. All of this time the UNRWA funding has been teaching children to hate their neighboring country. Pulling funding now may be the wrong move. May be. It could be the right move if you have something to replace it. Simply cutting the funding without some kind of other framework might be a bad idea, however I do not trust the UNRWA which is at least partly responsible for the current war.

I wasn't suggesting a sudden change. But as I said, we should provide aid only to those Palestinians who relinquish their "refugee" status, and of course I'm not suggesting that such a change happen overnight.

But it seems clear that many people (even some on this forum), are keeping the dream of a violent return alive. That seems like a good recipe for disaster.

 

[icehorse]

The entire land including all of Israel.

yikes!

 

[Jedster]

yikes!

Also Jordan(btw).

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I wasn't aware of the "Framework for Cooperation" document, that's a positive sign.



I wasn't suggesting a sudden change. But as I said, we should provide aid only to those Palestinians who relinquish their "refugee" status, and of course I'm not suggesting that such a change happen overnight.

But it seems clear that many people (even some on this forum), are keeping the dream of a violent return alive. That seems like a good recipe for disaster

Why are you avoiding my question?

Where do you wanna settle thé palastinians and them not having a refugee status would imply that they would become a citizen of a state? Which state?

 

[Kathryn]

As a woman, the thing that stood out to me is that only MALE descendants of refugees are given the same status, NOT FEMALES.

 

[Kathryn]

Also, in 2018 the US did not provide funding and in 2019 several other countries from the EU did not provide funding, citing an ethics report that alleged mismanagement, corruption, and discrimination among the agency's leadership. And finally, UNRWA is not just active in Palestine, or against Jewish aggression, but it's largest project is actually in Lebanon and is in response to fighting between Fatah Al-Islam militants and the Lebanese Armed Forces.