How Are Atheists or Secularists Harming You, Your Kids or Your Country?

[ratikala]

namaskaram Dhyana ji

Tell that to ISIS and other religious fundamentalists of any sect, mainly Christian.

unfortunatly there are just as many idiots who inforce their non religious political or nationalistic veiws on others as there are idiots who use religion as a justification to attain their own ends , ....
both are equaly guilty of causeing mahem all over the world , ...

however if you ask the average muslim if he is behind ISIS or fundamentalism the vast majority would say that they are not ! ...infact many moderate Muslims equaly live in fear of the fundamental branch of Islam .

as far as I am concerned fundamentalism in which ever religion it occurs is a corruption of that religion , ....and is a sad reflection of the worst side of human nature , it's ignorance , it's greed and it's heartlesness , ... yet equaly with in each religion one will find a humanity which is built on wisdom and understanding .

If they think what they believe is helping them to live better and happier lives here and now, maybe they should stop sharing if it causes misery to others who don't share their particular mania.

I think you fully understand that this is not the kind of sharing that I was refering to !

 

[Dhyana]

namaskaram Dhyana ji




unfortunatly there are just as many idiots who inforce their non religious political or nationalistic veiws on others as there are idiots who use religion as a justification to attain their own ends , ....
both are equaly guilty of causeing mahem all over the world , ...

Other than Putin, which non religious political or nationalistic organization, or country is currently pushing their views on others via actual violence or threats thereof? Last century yes. Off the top of my head , I can think of various African Countries, but none other currently. Just Zionists, Christianists and especially Islamists.

Atheists do no door to door harassment or street corner shouting, and certainly inflict no violence

However if you ask the average muslim if he is behind ISIS or fundamentalism the vast majority would say that they are not ! ...infact many moderate Muslims equaly live in fear of the fundamental branch of Islam .

I'm certain the same applies to the average Christian, or Jew. But violence and terrorism persist nonetheless. I'll grant them their myths and legends so long as they don't push them in my face or commit violence.

as far as I am concerned fundamentalism in which ever religion it occurs is a corruption of that religion , ....and is a sad reflection of the worst side of human nature , it's ignorance , it's greed and it's heartlesness , ... yet equaly with in each religion one will find a humanity which is built on wisdom and understanding.
I think you fully understand that this is not the kind of sharing that I was refering to !

On these points we agree. But the threats
of religious as well as political fundamentalism persist as two of the worst the world now faces.

 

[ratikala]

Other than Putin, which non religious political or nationalistic organization, or country is currently pushing their views on others via actual violence or threats thereof? Last century yes. Off the top of my head , I can think of various African Countries, but none other currently. Just Zionists, Christianists and especially Islamists.

what about China's occupation of Tibet , ...

• Tibetans killed by the Chinese since 1950: 1,200,000
• Died in prisons and labour camps between 1950 and 1984: up to 260,000
• 1959 Uprising: 430,000 died

that is a lot of peacfull people , and these figures are still rising .
not to mention the supression of Tibetian culture and Continued religious persicution .

in the Chinese cultural revolution Mao even turned on his own people ...

• Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51: 3M by execution, mob or suicide
• Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
• Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
• Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
• Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
• TOTAL under Mao: 70M

Atheists do no door to door harassment or street corner shouting, and certainly inflict no violence

In a crackdown in December 2011, peaceful Tibetans are treated like animals and forced to bow down and taken away by heavily armed Chinese military forces. Photo: TPI/Media File

I'm certain the same applies to the average Christian, or Jew. But violence and terrorism persist nonetheless. I'll grant them their myths and legends so long as they don't push them in my face or commit violence.

the Tibetan people were peacefully minding their own business untill China walked in and forced regimes upon them that they dont want ,

according to Mao religion was poison , ...he then persisted in deliberately starving thousands of nomads and vilagers to death in the name of reform ...and even to this day thousands of tibetans are imprisoned and tortured and peacefull protest is quached by violence .

then you have the Maoist factions in nepal and India
they dont knock on your door preaching they just stick landmines under buses , derail pasenger trains and gun down government oficials ...

and this is just the a few examples ....

On these points we agree. But the threats
of religious as well as political fundamentalism persist as two of the worst the world now faces.

but what we have to look at very carefully is how much of the apperent religiously fueled violence has a hidden political agenda ???

 

[ratikala]

According to a 2013 report from Amnesty International, “China once again executed more people than the rest of the world put together.” The precise figures remain difficult to verify due to such information being deemed a state secret by China’s regime, although the human rights organization has determined that “monitoring continued to indicate death sentences in the thousands.” Source: Amnesty 2013 Report

 

[Dhyana]

what about China's occupation of Tibet , ...

• Tibetans killed by the Chinese since 1950: 1,200,000
• Died in prisons and labour camps between 1950 and 1984: up to 260,000
• 1959 Uprising: 430,000 died

that is a lot of peacfull people , and these figures are still rising .
not to mention the supression of Tibetian culture and Continued religious persicution .

in the Chinese cultural revolution Mao even turned on his own people ...

• Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51: 3M by execution, mob or suicide
• Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
• Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
• Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
• Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
• TOTAL under Mao: 70M

In a crackdown in December 2011, peaceful Tibetans are treated like animals and forced to bow down and taken away by heavily armed Chinese military forces. Photo: TPI/Media File



the Tibetan people were peacefully minding their own business untill China walked in and forced regimes upon them that they dont want ,

according to Mao religion was poison , ...he then persisted in deliberately starving thousands of nomads and vilagers to death in the name of reform ...and even to this day thousands of tibetans are imprisoned and tortured and peacefull protest is quached by violence .

then you have the Maoist factions in nepal and India
they dont knock on your door preaching they just stick landmines under buses , derail pasenger trains and gun down government oficials ...

and this is just the a few examples ....

Oops, overlooked China and for that matter North Korea. My bad. Must agree with you there. Pretty clear and obvious.

but what we have to look at very carefully is how much of the apperent religiously fueled violence has a hidden political agenda ???

Political fundamentalism is equally as abhorrent as religious, whether communist. fascist or some other. When the two are mixed, even scarier: ISIS, Hamas, Tea Party.

 

[icehorse]

If Mao said religion was poison (and I'll accept that), he was playing with words. He was replacing old dogma with new dogma. While atheists are not by definition anti-dogma, in practice I'd say that a common reason why most atheists are atheists is because we don't think dogma is a good idea.

Next we have the idea that people distort religion for their own purposes. Of course, agreed. But I'll claim that the very nature of religion makes that an easy and natural outcome as has been borne out over the centuries. Religion claims to have all the answers, and claims ultimate authority. Once you get people buying into that mindset, they're easier to control, and the nefarious have known and used that fact from day one.