How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

Actually, let me ask and take your time. Without referring to Bahaullah's (The Bab, etc) teachings, list the "scripture" from Judaism, Buddhist, Christian, and Hindu text of the different prophecies in their order.

So, for example, (edit) since Hinduism came first, give scripture of krishna (and why krishna out of all gods and goddess, avatars, and incarnations) being an educator and prophet (he is an avatar, yes, but you're claiming he is more than that.)

Then continue to Judaism (Moses) came first, list the scripture that he is a prophet and tells (and progresses peace) to The Buddha with sutta support. Since Buddhism has some Hinduism in it. (Not sutras since many Buddhist don't see them as authoritative as the original Buddha's suttas of Pali).

Once you finish giving a couple of suttas from Maitraya predicting the coming of Moses. Then go from Moses to Christ and then Christ to Bahaullah.

Once you finished, connect all of these people in a very specific way in all scriptures (except any Bahai text) that predicts the coming of Bahaullah specifically.

Take your time.

When you're finished, we can look more at Bahaullah's statements and see if they specifically line up with the scriptures you posted. They can't be vague. Most religions want world peace. They can't be based on god. Buddhist don't believe in a creator.

Find a common religious denominator to which all of these scriptures and founders agree.

Also, many orgagnizations are looking for world peace. SGI is a Buddhist organization. It comes from Mahayana Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra is a summary of the Dharma, Pali. So, connect SGI (the Lotus since it has Maitraya in it too-I read it) with Bahaullah.

It will take a long time but to say any of these faiths are connected to Bahaullah takes more than a vague statement of one-truth, god, and one humanity. Each of these faiths are shaped by their traditions, language, and culture. If you do not incorporate them in your one-truth, it is not a one-truth. It causes wars and so forth.

Since that is not your goal, what can you provide above that connects everything together to Bahaullah and connects non-god religions to god.

Wait, there's more. They believe in Muhammad and the Bab. So Jesus has to predict Muhammad, then Muhammad has to predict the "twin" manifestations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Oh, and I forgot Zoroaster.

But sometimes they include Adam, Noah and Abraham. So if they do that why not the founder of Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism and Scientology... Okay maybe not Scientology. But why include so many from Judaism and not from some of these other religions? Were those founders building off another religion? So was Buddha and Jesus. Were they "just" men and not full fledged manifestations? What about Adam and Noah and even Moses? All just men who fell short of being perfect mirrors of God.

So there is a lot, the Baha'is have to sort out here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wait, there's more. They believe in Muhammad and the Bab. So Jesus has to predict Muhammad, then Muhammad has to predict the "twin" manifestations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Oh, and I forgot Zoroaster.

But sometimes they include Adam, Noah and Abraham. So if they do that why not the founder of Taoism, Jainism, Sikhism and Scientology... Okay maybe not Scientology. But why include so many from Judaism and not from some of these other religions? Were those founders building off another religion? So was Buddha and Jesus. Were they "just" men and not full fledged manifestations? What about Adam and Noah and even Moses? All just men who fell short of being perfect mirrors of God.

So there is a lot, the Baha'is have to sort out here.

Forgot about Muhammad. Plus, if there are manifestations of god, then Pagan gods would have to count because they came before the other religions and many religions branched off of and mixed with paganism.

If the abrahamic religions were the only ones revealed, it would kinda sorta make more sense. Though Muhammad didn't think kindly of jesus. Jesus didn't care for Pagans. Hindu and Buddhist have no clue about Judaism and Christianity. Their eras are completely different. Their TLC are completely different making their beliefs different as well. If they were under one god, then that one god wouldn't half the people believe in X and the other half believe in Y today. Plus, the progression in Christianity had only to do with the prophets coming from abraham. The Buddha and Krishna are nowhere in scriptures.

If Bahaullah is in scriptures, he'd have to be explicitly stated since the context of him being there only assumes he was just like all other gentiles and not a prophet that jesus recognized nor an apostle.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Really? Then I wonder how they all got so much wrong? I can't speak for Christians, but certainly any Bahai dogma about Hinduism is either just missing a whole lot, or is really selective, as to what suits them.

Perhaps they were guided on what to say, just outright deceptive people, lying about their background, or really uneducated about their own religion. Who knows really? I've never conversed with a Bahi who converted from Hinduism. Stranger stuff has happened, that's for sure.

Of course there are very knowledgeable Hindus who have become Baha'is just as in the other religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course there are very knowledgeable Hindus who have become Baha'is just as in the other religions.

Of course that is what you will be claiming. I wouldn't expect anything else. Searching on line, I did discover 'Bahais who converted from Christianity' and 'Bahais who converted from Islam', but no 'Bahais that converted from Hinduism'. Of course, from an outsider's POV, and believing in ahimsa, those conversions to me, would be a step up, and they sort of make sense in that the paradigms are at least somewhat similar. But from any traditional version of Hinduism, I would have serious doubts about any of it.

Still, this thread is about so called 'manifestations' not about converting to Bahai, although that's always one of the hidden agendas, obviously. You could start a thread on title 'How people are flocking to Bahai!" if you like. From independent non-Bahai sources, there has been little growth in a hundred years, so I'm not very worried about some world domination happening anytime soon.

But there is also a lot of other stuff on line that one could bring up, like a very low retention rate, which seems logical to me, as there are a lot of hidden factors that keep coming up.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Actually, let me ask and take your time. Without referring to Bahaullah's (The Bab, etc) teachings, list the "scripture" from Judaism, Buddhist, Christian, and Hindu text of the different prophecies in their order.

So, for example, (edit) since Hinduism came first, give scripture of krishna (and why krishna out of all gods and goddess, avatars, and incarnations) being an educator and prophet (he is an avatar, yes, but you're claiming he is more than that.)

Then continue to Judaism (Moses) came first, list the scripture that he is a prophet and tells (and progresses peace) to The Buddha with sutta support. Since Buddhism has some Hinduism in it. (Not sutras since many Buddhist don't see them as authoritative as the original Buddha's suttas of Pali).

Once you finish giving a couple of suttas from Maitraya predicting the coming of Moses. Then go from Moses to Christ and then Christ to Bahaullah.

Once you finished, connect all of these people in a very specific way in all scriptures (except any Bahai text) that predicts the coming of Bahaullah specifically.

Take your time.

When you're finished, we can look more at Bahaullah's statements and see if they specifically line up with the scriptures you posted. They can't be vague. Most religions want world peace. They can't be based on god. Buddhist don't believe in a creator.

Find a common religious denominator to which all of these scriptures and founders agree.

Also, many orgagnizations are looking for world peace. SGI is a Buddhist organization. It comes from Mahayana Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra is a summary of the Dharma, Pali. So, connect SGI (the Lotus since it has Maitraya in it too-I read it) with Bahaullah.

It will take a long time but to say any of these faiths are connected to Bahaullah takes more than a vague statement of one-truth, god, and one humanity. Each of these faiths are shaped by their traditions, language, and culture. If you do not incorporate them in your one-truth, it is not a one-truth. It causes wars and so forth.

Since that is not your goal, what can you provide above that connects everything together to Bahaullah and connects non-god religions to god.

This has already been done by some Baha'is and as you can see it would be impossible to post everything here and what is on that site is by no means exhaustive. There are so many that compiling them would take a very long time and some would take up complete volumes of proofs like the Bible.

For instance there is an entire book called Thief in the Night dedicated to just biblical prophecies about Bahaullah.

Then there is a 500 page book Maitreya Amitabha has appeared, a huge book regarding Buddhist prophecies.

Then there is another Book regarding Islamic prophecies called The Great Announcement of the Quran.

They couldn't possibly fit on this forum. This link is just a very scant representation of some prophecies but there are entire books of prophecies on each religion tyst are too large to all include here.So for now I'll just give you this link and you tell me what more you'd like.

Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course that is what you will be claiming. I wouldn't expect anything else. Searching on line, I did discover 'Bahais who converted from Christianity' and 'Bahais who converted from Islam', but no 'Bahais that converted from Hinduism'. Of course, from an outsider's POV, and believing in ahimsa, those conversions to me, would be a step up, and they sort of make sense in that the paradigms are at least somewhat similar. But from any traditional version of Hinduism, I would have serious doubts about any of it.

Still, this thread is about so called 'manifestations' not about converting to Bahai, although that's always one of the hidden agendas, obviously. You could start a thread on title 'How people are flocking to Bahai!" if you like. From independent non-Bahai sources, there has been little growth in a hundred years, so I'm not very worried about some world domination happening anytime soon.

But there is also a lot of other stuff on line that one could bring up, like a very low retention rate, which seems logical to me, as there are a lot of hidden factors that keep coming up.

Scrutiny is welcome. I think it's only fair.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes and no. Looking when Krishna lived was vague. 5000 years ago was what one site said. He will return at the end of the Kaliyug, which is 432000 years. So two problems you can clarify: First, Why doesn't it predict the other manifestations? Second, How do you explain that he won't come until the end of the Kaliyug? I guess there is a third one. How much of Krishna's story is myth and legend and how much is real? Thanks.

The verse where Krishna says He returns 'millennium after millennium' is both a prophecy about future Manifestations as well as a confirmation f the Vincent of progressive Revelation.

Here is another version of the timeline from Hindu scripture.

Bhartiya Baha'i: HINDUISM AND THE BAHÁ’I FAITH

 

[loverofhumanity]

Those who are practitioners that are not bahai and not on surface level agreement?

What do you think people were before they became Baha'is? They were all members of other religions and no religion.

Before a person becomes a Baha'i they belong to some other religion.

One example is George Townsend a Christian Minister.

In 1947, at the age of 70, Townshend renounced his orders to the Anglican Church and wrote a pamphlet to all Christians under the title “The Old Churches and the New World Faith”

You think he was not knowledgeable about the Bible? He preached it!! Yet after open mindedly looking into the message of Baha'u'llah accepted that Christ had returned.

Queen Marie of Roumania also told people of the beauty of the Baha'i Teachings.

She said:

"If ever the name of Bahá’u’lláh or ‘Abdu’l-Bahá comes to your attention, do not put their writings from you. Search out their Books, and let their glorious, peace-bringing, love-creating words and lessons sink into your hearts as they have into mine."

The Bahá'í teaching brings peace and understanding. It is like a wide embrace gathering together all those who have long searched for words of hope. It accepts all great Prophets gone before, it destroys no other creeds and leaves all doors open. Saddened by the continual strife amongst believers of many confessions and wearied of their intolerance towards each other, I discovered in the Bahá'í teaching the real spirit of Christ so often denied and misunderstood: Unity instead of strife, Hope instead of condemnation, Love instead of hate, and a great reassurance for all men." Queen Marie

Marie of Romania - Wikipedia

 

[loverofhumanity]

Faith for Rights March 2017

This is an example of all religions coming together.

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Press/21451/18CommitmentsonFaithforRights.docx

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This has already been done by some Baha'is and as you can see it would be impossible to post everything here and what is on that site is by no means exhaustive. There are so many that compiling them would take a very long time and some would take up complete volumes of proofs like the Bible.

For instance there is an entire book called Thief in the Night dedicated to just biblical prophecies about Bahaullah.

Then there is a 500 page book Maitreya Amitabha has appeared, a huge book regarding Buddhist prophecies.

Then there is another Book regarding Islamic prophecies called The Great Announcement of the Quran.

They couldn't possibly fit on this forum. This link is just a very scant representation of some prophecies but there are entire books of prophecies on each religion tyst are too large to all include here.So for now I'll just give you this link and you tell me what more you'd like.

Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

You would have to summarize it starting with Krishna. Then using the dharma to lead to moses. From moses then to christ. Christ to muhammad. Mummad to bahullah.

If you know in general about your faith Im sure a summary isnt hard.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You would have to summarize it starting with Krishna. Then using the dharma to lead to moses. From moses then to christ. Christ to muhammad. Mummad to bahullah.

If you know in general about your faith Im sure a summary isnt hard.

It's not hard but it would be a very watered down version that wouldn't do justice to the theme.

I have already presented Krishna and Kalki Avatar. So next will be Buddhism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not hard but it would be a very watered down version that wouldn't do justice to the theme.

I have already presented Krishna and Kalki Avatar. So next will be Buddhism.

Take out Kalki. You said krishna is an avatar and manifestation. Judaism came before Buddhism. So youd have to link krishna to moses. Moses to The Buddha. The Buddha to christ. Christ to bahaullah.

They dont all believe in god so god cant be a common foundation.

So youd have to start with their scriptures then link it to bahaullah.

With no god.

 

[Vinayaka]

The verse where Krishna says He returns 'millennium after millennium' is both a prophecy about future Manifestations as well as a confirmation f the Vincent of progressive Revelation.

Here is another version of the timeline from Hindu scripture.

Bhartiya Baha'i: HINDUISM AND THE BAHÁ’I FAITH

I don't consider Bahai sources as objective. It's just the same stuff as what you say here. nothing at all independent.

Here's the other side: RUHI BOOKS: Deceptive Conversion Techniques

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Pra

What do you think people were before they became Baha'is? They were all members of other religions and no religion.

Before a person becomes a Baha'i they belong to some other religion.

One example is George Townsend a Christian Minister.

In 1947, at the age of 70, Townshend renounced his orders to the Anglican Church and wrote a pamphlet to all Christians under the title “The Old Churches and the New World Faith”

You think he was not knowledgeable about the Bible? He preached it!! Yet after open mindedly looking into the message of Baha'u'llah accepted that Christ had returned.

Queen Marie of Roumania also told people of the beauty of the Baha'i Teachings.

She said:

"If ever the name of Bahá’u’lláh or ‘Abdu’l-Bahá comes to your attention, do not put their writings from you. Search out their Books, and let their glorious, peace-bringing, love-creating words and lessons sink into your hearts as they have into mine."

The Bahá'í teaching brings peace and understanding. It is like a wide embrace gathering together all those who have long searched for words of hope. It accepts all great Prophets gone before, it destroys no other creeds and leaves all doors open. Saddened by the continual strife amongst believers of many confessions and wearied of their intolerance towards each other, I discovered in the Bahá'í teaching the real spirit of Christ so often denied and misunderstood: Unity instead of strife, Hope instead of condemnation, Love instead of hate, and a great reassurance for all men." Queen Marie

Marie of Romania - Wikipedia

Practicing practitioners have a different view than ex ones. When i was catholic I had a more personal view of the sacraments. Now not so much. Bahai cant be mixed in.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This has already been done by some Baha'is and as you can see it would be impossible to post everything here and what is on that site is by no means exhaustive. There are so many that compiling them would take a very long time and some would take up complete volumes of proofs like the Bible.

For instance there is an entire book called Thief in the Night dedicated to just biblical prophecies about Bahaullah.

Then there is a 500 page book Maitreya Amitabha has appeared, a huge book regarding Buddhist prophecies.

Then there is another Book regarding Islamic prophecies called The Great Announcement of the Quran.

They couldn't possibly fit on this forum. This link is just a very scant representation of some prophecies but there are entire books of prophecies on each religion tyst are too large to all include here.So for now I'll just give you this link and you tell me what more you'd like.

Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an

https://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf

The Buddha prophecied many buddhas not just maitreya. Read the Lotus Sutra. That has a ton of buddhas and bodhissatvas predicted to come tp a futue age "to continue and safeguard the dharma."

There is no change in the Dharma. God is still not in the Dharma. They are predicted to protect the Dharma not create a new one.

Bahaullah sounds like someone who wants to keep world peace by taking out the negative things as a result of what people do in the name of their religion.

His goal is not the issue. Its his method and theology thats the problem.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Take out Kalki. You said krishna is an avatar and manifestation. Judaism came before Buddhism. So youd have to link krishna to moses. Moses to The Buddha. The Buddha to christ. Christ to bahaullah.

They dont all believe in god so god cant be a common foundation.

So youd have to start with their scriptures then link it to bahaullah.

With no god.

In the Bhagavad-Gita progressive Revelation linking all the Manifestations is already mentioned.

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself."

"In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to re-establish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium." [BG 4.7-8]

Krishna does not say He returns once but many times, millennium after millennium thus fully supporting the concept that Manifestations are sent from time to time.

This 'advent of Krishna' 'millennium after millennium' prophecies Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That is a major link. You can find similar statements in the Bible and Quran as well as Buddhist Scritures that there are many Buddhas etc.

There is nothing more clear in all the religions than that Messengers are sent in each age.

Note that Krishna does not say that every time He manifest Hinself He is known as Krishna. Actually the Ten Avatars are all known by a different name so it is expected that the different names such as Moses and Buddha are all known by different names yet they are all One and the same Person.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bahaullah sounds like someone who wants to keep world peace by taking out the negative things as a result of what people do in the name of their religion.

One of many. .Art of Living Global. The key difference here, though, is most other world wide organisations work cooperatively, not insisting their version is the best or only way.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Buddha prophecied many buddhas not just maitreya. Read the Lotus Sutra. That has a ton of buddhas and bodhissatvas predicted to come tp a futue age "to continue and safeguard the dharma."

There is no change in the Dharma. God is still not in the Dharma. They are predicted to protect the Dharma not create a new one.

Bahaullah sounds like someone who wants to keep world peace by taking out the negative things as a result of what people do in the name of their religion.

His goal is not the issue. Its his method and theology thats the problem.

That was the point I just raised in another post. That there is not one Buddha or Manifestation but many, indicating that Buddha supported the concept of a Messenger or Teacher appearing from time to time just like Krishna did as you will also find in other Holy Books such as the Bible and Quran.

That's Two Teachers that support progressive Revelation. The others have scriptures stating exactly the same.

They all speak of Teachers and Messengers appearing regularly to guide people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

One of many. .Art of Living Global. The key difference here, though, is most other world wide organisations work cooperatively, not insisting their version is the best or only way.

We are working with groups like this through the UN. Of course they have their own version too just as we do. Faiths for Rights is a UN project where the FAITHS work together to protect human rights.

But I think their way is wonderful as education is the way to go. We need to all spiritually mature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In the Bhagavad-Gita progressive Revelation linking all the Manifestations is already mentioned.

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself."

"In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to re-establish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium." [BG 4.7-8]

Krishna does not say He returns once but many times, millennium after millennium thus fully supporting the concept that Manifestations are sent from time to time.

This 'advent of Krishna' 'millennium after millennium' prophecies Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That is a major link. You can find similar statements in the Bible and Quran as well as Buddhist Scritures that there are many Buddhas etc.

There is nothing more clear in all the religions than that Messengers are sent in each age.

Note that Krishna does not say that every time He manifest Hinself He is known as Krishna. Actually the Ten Avatars are all known by a different name so it is expected that the different names such as Moses and Buddha are all known by different names yet they are all One and the same Person.

No avatar of hinduism can be a abrahamic prophet (not manifestation). Kridhna has nothing to do with moses.

Moses was not prophecied by god. He had a regular geneology just as christ (first book and page of john). He did not have the same role as christ. Christ is not at all the same belief as hindu belief of krishna.

You have five human beings and a incarnation as manifestations.

Start with scripture since I know that better.

Where in scripture does god of abraham give bahaullah any authority as he does the prophets in the bible?

No outside resources. Just scripture. It must be specific.

Oh I wish a JW (@Deeje) was here. JW know more scripture than me. But I dont know if they can tie it to bahaullah since the age, location, and beliefs are different.

But you disregard the TLC as mere expressions. So how can you give these religions their truth if you disregard what makes them different than each other?