How are these Great Beings explained?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

We are speaking about real life here not mythological characters only existing in comic books.

... wow. If the level of ignorance displayed here had physical mass it would blot out the stars.

And why is Aesop not in your list as well? His fables have been teaching wisdom for longer than all the others, and continue to teach to this day.

I think we both know why.

The Muslim empires themselves no longer exist, yet the Mohammedan religion lives on, that is part of the difference between Muhammad and Genghis Kahn, the influence of one goes beyond the reach of his military might.

The number of people who follow Tengrism today may not be as big as Islam but it's not an insubstantial number. Over 55,000 in Mongolia alone.

 

[LuisDantas]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

It depends on how you define "ordinary people". This is a mixed lot. Jesus is probably all-out fictional. Muhammad I find to be all too alike several Brazilians I would rather not have learned of.

The others may or may not have existed as literal people; it is hard to tell with any certainty. In any case, the traditions associated with them have greatly overgrown the actual people.

I guess it takes being predisposed to perceive history as shaped by greatly unusual people in order to be in awe of their (often presumed) existence.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

To the small extent that I agree, it is only because I acknowledge that having multitudes of devotees can make quite the difference. There is real strength in the dedication of many people working in mutual cooperation.

 

[Lirille]

My take is that any great figures that walk(ed) the Earth were once plain human beings like you and me. They're just more learned than us. Let's say we're in kindergarten and they are school (or, in some cases, faculty) staff.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

In all honesty I could see Charlie Brown on this list! I learned as much from Peanuts about self-acceptance and keeping a good attitude as I did from any of these...and yes I have ready the Bible and the Koran cover-to-cover, though not as up on the the others...And as far as only considering 'real historical' (lol) figures and not those only in comic books...Isn't the bible and the koran comic books complete with villains and superheros, magic and unearthly beings, etc. etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

I feel we all havd a purpose or calling and these people are not different. The Buddha talks about him coming from his rich living to humble himself among the poor. He himself did not ask for people to bow to him but he gave knowledge others he felt did not have. I have respect for The Buddha because he didnt advocate worship nor did he set himself apart from others. To consider him great is a mark of respect but a person to be revered he spoke against that.

Jesus was no greater in that he placed the greatest as god the father himself. Because of his teachings and the apostles many people have gone into wars. Other people have been indoctrinated unhealthily innthe christian faith. Jesus did not promote anyone to worship him. The way is not the same as the source. Someone claimed jesus god, and jesus sd the only one who is good is the father. If he did not see himself as good why would christians see him as great. He is just like us.

Moses submited to god. He did not place himself more than a human. To see him as a prophet is putting him above others. Where is his place given he is not god? How is he great when even jesus said he was not good.

Mummhamad would Never place himself at a higher position to where he is not Just a prophet. Like jesus he is human and like jesus they believed in one god. Whether he made himself great i dont know.

The general consensus is god is the only great person, prophet, teacher, and creator.

I dont see how they are different than the authors of my favorite books and artists. They are teachers and educators. To me, nothing more.

 

[omega2xx]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

Except for Jesus all you mentioned are sinners. None you mention are a Messiah. If the Bible is truly God;s word they are all false teachers and false prophets, except Jesus and Moses.

It is explained by the parable of the wheat and the tares. One way Satan corrupts all religions is by counterfeiting what God does. Satan has put false Messiahs, false teachers and false prophets among the religions of the world, including Christianity.

Does some of the teachings of those you mention have a moral base? Of course. All cults include some basic moral truth to deceive its followers. Most of all their moral teachings can be found in the Bible. None of them were smart enough to get it exactly the same. For example Some of their teachings say This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you--Hinduism. This is put in a negative context.

Jesus taught to do unto others. This is a positive contest. None of them teach its followers to love the enemies and do go to those who despitefully use you.

What could another teacher teach us that is better than what Jesus taught us?

There is a way that seems right to a man but its end it is the way death---Prov 16:25

 

[Brickjectivity]

...What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?...

Maybe is it love, the strength of community, dissatisfaction with mediocrity, concern for the poor, concern for those not yet born.

 

[Jainarayan]

strictly speaking He did prophesy His return whenever there was a decline in religion so He did fulfill a prophetic role also.

Incorrect. It is Vishnu who incarnates time and again. Krishna is but one of many incarnations of Vishnu.

 

[Quintessence]

Odin is from Norse culture, not comic books, but thank you for showing your ignorance. You also cannot prove that any of the figures you mentioned are not mythological characters.

And why is Aesop not in your list as well? His fables have been teaching wisdom for longer than all the others, and continue to teach to this day.

Just re-quoting this since it hasn't been answered yet. I'm feeling some explanations are needed after that backhand slap against Paganisms.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm still struggling to figure out how Krishna - who, it seems, if he existed as a real person at all, was the tribal leader of an ancient Indian culture that was famed most in Hindu literature for its flagrant displays of overt materialistic splendor and bloodthirsty warfare - was a "spiritual educator".

The ignorance of the subject is strong in that post. Read the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata.

The Kurukshetra War was not a war of conquest, or even a punitive war. It was a war to right a wrong. Krishna tried several times to broker peace and correct the injustice without war.

 

[Jainarayan]

Hmmm! So Gandhi took the opposite road to the one recommended by Krishna to Arjuna.,.in my book that makes Gandhi a greater teacher than Krishna - Gandhari would agree too - she wondered why Krishna (as a manifestation of the supreme deity and the "Protector") had allowed the bloodshed to happen at all - and Krishna had no satisfactory answer.

You again miss the point: Krishna instructed Arjuna (and the rest of us) to not be afraid of, or shirk our appointed duties and responsibilities.

Arjuna was of the warrior class. It was his karma and dharma to be a warrior. Though he knew that, he was afraid to perform his duty because of his emotions. Gandhari also let her passions and emotions blind her, literally and figuratively. No answer Krishna might have given her would satisfy her and assuage her grief.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I suggest you read some Joseph Campbell if you'd like to learn how myths and mythological figures develop and propagate.

 

[Valjean]

The ignorance of the subject is strong in that post. Read the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata.

The Kurukshetra War was not a war of conquest, or even a punitive war. It was a war to right a wrong. Krishna tried several times to broker peace and correct the injustice without war.

It's a poem; verse concocted by a poet at his writing desk. It's not history.
But it does illustrate just how easily a pleasant myth can become reality in the mind of the public.

 

[Vinayaka]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

Spin doctoring. They all had great PR agents.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think I would "explain" from a few angles:

Exaggeration: In the days before ease of travel and communication, stories were passed from one man to the next. A game of "telephone" in which wise and good deeds could eventually become supernatural and grand.
Superstition: People were far more gullible in times past, because there hadn't been the width and breadth of deceit having gone on and been communicated/relayed to others to watch out for. And I mean this in relation to people buying into stories that may have been grander than reality. Not that these grand personages did anything deceitful necessarily.
It's all been done: What is anyone in today's day and age going to say or impart that is bigger/better than previous wisdom, or doesn't seem to almost directly plagiarize the "greats" that have passed in some way? What "revelation" is there left to impress the masses with?
Mass profusion: There are simply too many people to have to impress anymore. We can't all huddle around a fire in the middle of a field and have a good bonding session.

In other words, I don't know that it is necessarily possible to have such a rallying point in modern society, and some of the above factors probably played a part in allowing those figures you mention to reach the status they did.

 

[Jainarayan]

It's not history.

I never said it is or is not history. Even if it is fiction (though I tend to think there are some historical elements) it's no less valuable.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The teachings of Zoroaster had an enormous effect on Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Didn't one of you Balha'ians try that before, and weren't able to show anything for it?

 

[Prestor John]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

Probably something to do with magnets.

 

[siti]

The ignorance of the subject is strong in that post. Read the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata.

No - the ignorance of history is strong in the Bhagavad Gita and Mahabharata - that's my point. As literary epics I have no problem with them at all. As spiritual guidance, I have no problem with them (as my comments about Gandhi's interpretation at least hint at). But the OP was suggesting that Krishna was a real manifestation of some great teacher - he was not. And the real history of the period that is described in the Mahabharata was one of bloodshed and turmoil that resulted in the establishment of the dharma of the Kuru Kingdom - a monarchy on a scale previously unimaginable in south Asia - that ruled over a vast territory of northern India. These stories were their religious and cultural heritage - not the sayings of a supernaturally empowered "great being". If Krishna existed at all as a real person (and he probably did), as you read the Gita and the Mahabharata he comes across as a wise but complex man - who enjoyed the carnal pleasures of fleshly life and had as much trouble reconciling duty, necessity, compassion and virtue as most of us do once we have passed the impulsive spontaneity of youth. There is indeed truth in them - but they are not the sayings of a periodically reincarnated great teacher - they are encapsulations of human wisdom plumped up with fanciful recreations of human cultural narrative. And the ones that get perpetuated the most are the ones that appear in conjunction with great empires and great tyrannies. To suggest otherwise is to deny both our humanness and our history.

 

[siti]

My take is that any great figures that walk(ed) the Earth were once plain human beings like you and me. They're just more learned than us. Let's say we're in kindergarten and they are school (or, in some cases, faculty) staff.

I accept that 'they' might have been special people but their 'wisdom' is more likely an accumulation of the 'learnedness' of the succession of sages who interpreted, reinterpreted and revised the supposed sayings of these 'great teachers' as their mythologies developed long after their individual demise. We really have no idea what the 'real Krishna', the 'real Moses' or the 'real Jesus' actually said or did - we have only traditional accounts that have been (often severely) revised and redacted to suit the political aims of the civilizations that adopted them as icons. In reality, I doubt that they were really that much smarter than other sages - just more persuasive. Even when we read them today, I reckon we don't truly learn that much from them - we mostly find congruence with our own current intuitions and declare them 'wise' because they long ago 'revealed' truths about the human condition that took us (individually) a long time to figure out.