How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

One question: Rev 11:3 the 2 witnesses prophecy for the 1260 days. After they are finished with their testimony 11:9, they are killed and left in the street for 3 1/2 days. 11:11, they come back to life. And in 11:8 it says the city where they will lay in the street is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

What is that all about?

To me this illudes to the breaking of the Covernant on Muhammads Death Bed. It Was Ali that was appointed on a couple of occasions to succeed Muhammad. The elders thought him too young and took control. Thus the 3 1/2 Days is the 3 1/2 years or 42 months, 1260 days = 1260 years. There are things written about this in a lot more detail.

It is known that the Faith if Muhammad was one of Negation. This aspect above my full understanding. There is some great talks on the subject though.

A muslim says there Is no God (Negation), but God (Affirmation) before all things.

This has been changed to Affirmation.

The Bab has given an explanation on thos this Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Page 147

Thus it is a Prophecy that already foretells that the Faith of Muhammad would be one of Negation. Those that broke the Covernant became the path of Negation.

The Bab and Baha'u'llah came from the line that would have been Affirmation.

I have found there is a lot we do not consider and we waste so much time not exploring all this wonder of knowledge.

If we read what the Great Beings say about it all, we are not wasting any time, we are reading the source of all Truth. That is why it has been written that we source and read the Pure Word. It has the power of change within us.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, they do, in my opinion. They're contradictory at times. But you're free to disagree, obviously. You say you respect all religions, and then tell us we're wrong. You won't see that as a contradiction, but I do.

"We are not especially blessed if our words and deeds differ."?

Deeds? Their hands are tied, because everything becomes political. What are the Baha'is in Puerto Rico doing? If the secular government is having problems, can the "God" ordained Baha'i Assembly show them the way? In Las Vegas, are the Baha'is pushing to ban guns? They can't because that a Liberal Democratic thing. So other than words, what deeds can they do?

Oh, and I wonder, since Baha'is have no hell, then where does the shooter go? Maybe they send him into therapy? Like they propose for homosexuals here on Earth?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you really think a letter from a vaguely known religious leader from some far off place would help Donald Trump or the North Korea guy stop their rhetoric?

Most likely not, but the fact is they have already been warned by Baha'u'llah. It is all still available and the Universal House of Justice still distributes it.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Having sight or blindness is a metaphor for having perfect spiritual perception and insight compared to being bereft of any such qualities. Most of us here have degrees of spiritual insight. We are all insightful and all blind to some degree, atheists included. The one who imagines himself to have more than others, simply has his own form of blindness as we all do. It was certainly not my intention to claim anyone here has any more or any less spiritual than anyone else, or to claim that the Baha'is are more enlightened.

"His appearance is obvious for those with eyes to sees, as opposed by the spiritually blind."?

Don't worry about it. Christians say the same thing. They even say that about Baha'is. They have been blinded by Satan and cannot see the truth about Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, and LH, you have a stronger habit of occasionally prefacing your statements with that idea. Thank you for that. Still, I felt the need for a reminder. I think we all need it occasionally.

Though that makes conversation good and cosey, it will not change the fact that Baha'u'llah has asked us to open our Frames of Reference to include all Faiths.

Thus yes it is what we beleive and what we must ask ourselves, is it the Truth or Not.

Will it heal the World or will it not?

The time for fence sitting is comming to an end, humanity has been given a period of time to sort it out, that time will not last.

Yes that is what I beleive

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

With all of this said, I'm done with this thread. If people desire to continue with the pointless back-and-forth, then y'all go ahead, man. I'm through with it, and debating religion period. I hate it in general. This thread really solidifies my deep hatred.

There is wisdom why you feel this way and yes I agree with you.

When it becomes and arguement, we are indeed both wrong. You have done well to make a stance.

May you be well and happy and may God bless you always.

Regards Tony

 

[Sundance]

There is wisdom why you feel this way and yes I agree with you.

When it becomes and arguement, we are indeed both wrong. You have done well to make a stance.

May you be well and happy and may God bless you always.

Regards Tony

Thank you, Tony! May God grant you peace.

 

[CG Didymus]

To me this illudes to the breaking of the Covernant on Muhammads Death Bed. It Was Ali that was appointed on a couple of occasions to succeed Muhammad. The elders thought him too young and took control. Thus the 3 1/2 Days is the 3 1/2 years or 42 months, 1260 days = 1260 years. There are things written about this in a lot more detail.

It is known that the Faith if Muhammad was one of Negation. This aspect above my full understanding. There is some great talks on the subject though.

A muslim says there Is no God (Negation), but God (Affirmation) before all things.

This has been changed to Affirmation.

The Bab has given an explanation on thos this Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Page 147

Do a Prophecy that already foretells that the Faith of Muhammad would be one of Negation. Those that broke the Covernant became the path of Negation.

The Bab and Baha'u'llah came from the line that would have been Affirmation.

I have found there is a lot we do not consider and we waste so much time not exploring all this wonder of knowledge.

If we read what the Great Beings say about it all, we are not wasting any time, we are reading the source of all Truth. That is why it has been written that we source and read the Pure Word. It has the power of change within us.

Regards Tony

Still, Baha'is do not tie in what happened in Christianity. The Inquisition and the Protestant Reformation wouldn't make it into a Christian book about the things to come?
I don't know anything about Muhammad on his death bed. I don't know why one of the two witnesses would be a manifestation, but the other one of his followers? Muhammad didn't have any other worthy followeres? But, If the 2 witnesses prophecy for 1260 days and then are killed after that, the 3 1/2 days seems like it has to be added after the initial 1260 days. But also, it says they lie in a street for those 3 1/2 days in the city where their Lord was crucified. How do you make that work?

We "read the Pure Word."? Like the Bible? No, Baha'is have said that isn't so pure. Can you believe that the Bible says Issac was taken to be sacrificed? How can Jews keep saying that when Muhammad and Baha'u'llah say it was Ishmael. Pure "Word"? Like when the NT says that Jesus healed the sick and brought sight to the blind. Little did we know this was only metaphorical until the Baha'i Faith told us so. I guess when the NT says he healed a leper, it means the man had "spiritual" leprosy.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's not sadness or anger, at all but a realisation that we're all not getting anywhere. You're correct. You personally haven't said we turn our backs on God, or said that we're blind. But people have. If you feel you need to argue against that, you certainly can. But that argument isn't with me. But so far I haven't seen any Baha'i' confront another Baha'i' on this thread. It's been nothing but lovey-dovey support.

It is the Great Beings that have given this advice. Wheras you attribute it to the person that shares the Message.

Why it is shared, is so that each of us can ask the question of our own selves, does it apply to us or does it not.

We put our hands up it applies to us.

Be well, and happy, regards always Tony.

 

[CG Didymus]

Good to see you back.

I don't think we can identify any culture that hasn't had some religious belief. Perhaps it begins with some form of animism and then attributing spiritual powers to larger bodies such as the sun, moon, stars, mountains, forests etc. It is not hard to imagine the evolution of beliefs in gods in this way and then to see allegory and symbolism in stories that weave such dieties together. I'm sure there would have been spiritually elightened peoples that could provide meaning and uplift the human condition through such beliefs but they certainly had their dark side too. Having said that, I don't really know much about the vast multitudes of polytheistic belief systems. Clearly a great deal of effort was made by Moses and the Hebrew prophets to promote monothesim and to strongly discourage the Jews from worshipping other gods,such as Baal.

During the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, and then Roman periods did these empires influence Hebrew culture and thought? Almost certainly. Did Jesus use the language of His culture and people to explain spiritual truths. How could He not? Did His Teachings transcend these cultural influences to give birth to a new theology, distinct from these cultural influences as well as Judaism? Yes.

The teachings of love God, love your neighbor and enemy, and forgive them would have greatly assisted Christianity rising above any man made influences and additions to Christianity, don't you think?

"spiritually elightened peoples"? But you say there was always manifestations.

To "strongly discourage the Jews from worshipping other gods"? You mean like having the prophets of Baal killed? I wonder how the God of Israel would have dealt with Hindus and Buddhists?

"Did His (Jesus) Teachings transcend these cultural influences to give birth to a new theology..."? It gave birth to a religion that made Him God and the only way to God.

Did you take any Religious Studies courses while in college? Because they kind of do have a progression of religious beliefs... but nothing like the Baha'i progression. Since those studies try and use a scientific method, I would think it would be of some importance to Baha'is. Except that it doesn't support the Baha'is beliefs of progressive revelation very well, but I'm sure you'd find some way to make it work.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We "read the Pure Word."? Like the Bible? No, Baha'is have said that isn't so pure.

Inscription in the Old Bible Written by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in Persian.

THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás.

With this the keys have been given. We must use the keys that opens all books.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

OK, and I expect that you would be an exemplar of equality, but not all Bahais were when I used to meet them.

In about 1990 an LSA chairman and very influential UK Bahai instructed a friend of mine to carry out electrical works at his home.
After the work was completed I happened to take my Bahai wife to a Bahai function at his home.
When he saw me he spoke about the work that my friend carried out in front of a large group of Bahais.
He told us all that my friend, this tradesman should never have carried out the work because he should have been retired by his age, and that there should be constraints against old persons using ladders, fitting electrical products and even working by that age. He pointed out that if a man had not been able to retire by that age that he could not have been very competent at his work.

In the UK, and under UK legislation every sentence that this Bahai chairman spoke was a tort and a disgrace against our Equality values and laws. Just imagine that man, who once held a massively senior position in commerce and industry, if he would be sitting on the UHJ...?

I never forgot that incident, and it reminds me to judge people by their actions rather than their claims. That man's words amounted to an action.

I've had great experiences with Baha'is and some bad ones. If there is a way to get into a position of power, I don't doubt that someone will abuse that power.

 

[CG Didymus]

Inscription in the Old Bible Written by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in Persian.

THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás.

With this the keys have been given. We must use the keys that opens all books.

Regards Tony

You can't tell me that you can study the Jewish Bible and then the NT and tell me what the truth about God is all about. You need Baha'u'llah to contradict what Jews believe and what Christians believe to come up with the Baha'i understanding of the Bible. But with all the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, for Baha'is, the Bible has become a relic of the past.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wonder how the God of Israel would have dealt with Hindus and Buddhists?

It is the same God.

Why do you ask these quesrions, you know the position we will give?

I have been leaving for some time wish you well. Thus do not require a reply to the question.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You can't tell me that you can study the Jewish Bible and then the NT and tell me what the truth about God is all about. You need Baha'u'llah to contradict what Jews believe and what Christians believe to come up with the Baha'i understanding of the Bible. But with all the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, for Baha'is, the Bible has become a relic of the past.

You need the New Testament to understand all religions prior to Christ, then we need the Koran, thus now the Writings of Baha'u'llah clearly contain the Keys.

Then there are other lines of Truth to follow as well

The most Important Key is One God.

Read scriptures with this key, you will look for that Oneness and it is found.

I have finished.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

We say the core of all religions teach good. We are saying we agree that your religion teaches good.

What about the core teachings of each religion?
Maybe it's time we study a little bit more about Hinduism. Here's a link to the deities of Hinduism


Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva seated on lotuses with their consorts

So Baha's believe in one God? And that all religions agree? Then how do you explain Hinduism? It may be the oldest. Yet, it is virtually ignored in the Baha'i Faith?

 

[CG Didymus]

You need the New Testament to understand all religions prior to Christ, then we need the Koran, thus now the Writings of Baha'u'llah clearly contain the Keys.

Then there are other lines of Truth to follow as well

The most Important Key is One God.

Read scriptures with this key, you will look for that Oneness and it is found.

I have finished.

Regards Tony

To whom ever takes over for Tony: The NT is written by men, not the manifestation. What key to the previous religions did they give? All of them false, except Judaism... and it has lost its way and is replaced by the "truth" that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And He, no one else, is coming back.

But, Baha'is don't believe this. They reinterpret the NT to say what they need it to say. But, like I said, it was written by men. How accurate were they in their reporting of what Jesus said and did? Baha'is flip the events all around anyway, but why bother? Why not just say that it is all myth? Myth... the healing the sick? No, he healed them "spiritually". Myth... Jesus rose from the dead? No, his followers are his body and came to life... metaphorically. Myth... He is coming again? No, not him... and not only a second time, but a third and fourth time.

And really, the Jews that converted to Christianity? What did they gain? A belief that Jesus is God? That salvation is only in Jesus? That those that don't believe in Him will be sent to hell? Which of those Christian beliefs is true according to the Baha'i Faith? So why should a Jew have left Judaism to become a Christian?

 

[CG Didymus]

It is the same God.

Why do you ask these quesrions, you know the position we will give?

I have been leaving for some time wish you well. Thus do not require a reply to the question.

Regards Tony

So your God flooded the world and obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah and had the prophets of Baal killed, but would have told the Jews to accept the Hindus and Buddhists?

 

[siti]

A Baha'i following the Guidance of Baha'u'llah are with no doubt the Lovers of all Gods Manifestations

Perhaps, but not lovers of the religions established in their names!

 

[oldbadger]

I've had great experiences with Baha'is and some bad ones. If there is a way to get into a position of power, I don't doubt that someone will abuse that power.

.... and then power corrupts.
It seems that the best systems of government automatically remove a government at regular intervals, for the people to vote as they choose.
It's a good system that only allows a President to hold two terms of office, I think.