How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

...I say you don't read everything I say because reading, taking interest in what I say, and wanting to learn my point of view all goes together. If you don't have interest in the meaning and context in what I say especially when it conflicts with your own views, how will you learn other people's perspectives...

This ties in with what I was trying to say earlier. Too many times people aren't really listening to the other person's point of view, because they thinking ahead on how they are going to prove their point... like a chess game. The other person's words aren't all that important, because the they already know they aren't, and don't want to change, their views. The whole purpose of the conversation is to change the other person's point of view.

I think it can be very subtle, but I think it's still their... on both sides. Are we really thinking, "Gee, I need to know more about this great religion of theirs." I'm talking about a truly seeking attitude. We are more of a, "What? No, that's not what I think, and this is how I believe you're wrong..." kind of attitude. But that's all right. They throw out statements that are up for debate, and we respond.

But them, what is the purpose behind the questions and statements. Is it to get to know us and what we believe? Or, to show us, lovingly and respectfully, that we are wrong, and they are right?

Of course this happens all the time, especially with Christian groups. Many have a plan and rehearse it on how to get people to convert. Are Baha'is any different? Do they really want to know you and respect you as you are, or do they want to change you [to them, it's for the better], and get you to see their truth as the real truth.

When I was first learning of the Baha'i Faith, they'd often say, "We don't make Baha'is... We find them." Meaning they'd find people that already believed in peace, love, unity, that all people are one, etc. Who's not gong to believe things like that aren't true? The next step would be to convince them that Baha'u'llah is the "promised" one of all religions. That is the big problem... as we can see here. I got some more stuff, but I'm gong to do it off a different one of your posts. See you in a minute or two.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes it's all about service to humanity.

Without strings, yes. Let's talk about conversion. The Hindu says, "Go away. Hinduism isn't for you, because you already have a beautiful religion."

Whereas the Abrahamics go out saying, "Something is wrong with you. You need fixing, and I'm here, I'm here with the good news for you. All you need to do is believe in _________ (insert prophets name here)and your life will be so wonderful."

I actually find this all quite funny as I mentioned to adrian the other day.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have responsibilities too. I have to read all posts because I can't reply in one setting. It's too much information at once and my brain because of disability has to work in sections. Not many people do that because they can do points in their head. I can't.

I mean, it took awhile just to even get as far as "if your truth is my truth, what is my truth?"

and you have yet to answer the question. Yes, many people have mystical experiences but I have not experienced them. They aren't mystical, supernatural, or spiritual. It's life just the tree growing in front of my apartment building. Once I see it as sacred, I put it above me. It makes me imbalance.

I say you don't read everything I say because reading, taking interest in what I say, and wanting to learn my point of view all goes together. If you don't have interest in the meaning and context in what I say especially when it conflicts with your own views, how will you learn other people's perspectives.

For example, when I talk about cultural appropriation, I keep asking you do you at least understand what I am talking about and how do you understand it. I asked many times about your understanding. I can't change your mind and don't want to. I just find it odd you either don't understand and don't say so or understand and just tell me what you believe rather than addressing what I believe.

I mean, I read all these Bahai quotes and what you guys say and it still stumps me.

Like the artist thing. I can never duplicate someone else's circle. If they copyrighted, it is their art not my own. If I came over, stole it, put it in my art, and interpret it how I feel, then that is art appropriation.

Cultural appropriation is taking things from other cultures and putting it into your own. It has a negative connotation because it disrespect other people's cultural values without respect. Many cultural values and traditions are not just given. They have certain initiation rites and other things one must go through to gain information they consider truth.

Even by telling them they all have one truth is an insult. Whether you think it is or not, that's your belief. But to understand what I say, again, you have to take interest in the accusation not defend it with your own beliefs.

When you asked me what is your truth I answered that but you just kept asking me the same question again. I'm sure I gave you answers.

I think I said something like.

1.We are both human so we can experience the same sentiments and emotions and although I don't know what name you call your truth I would most likely have experienced something Dimitar as we are bitty human beings.

2. That was one of my answers. I also answered that you had believed in Buddhism, Catholicism and paganism.

After answering twice you still kept asking me to tell you your truth so I said I couldn't guess what answer you wanted so I couldn't give you any more answers as I had already given you two.

Now the question arises again. And I say again that we call truth by different names but as we are both human beings we both experience the same sentiments and feelings.

I'm trying to oblige and I'd given answers but you still maintain I'm not answering you.

I'm puzzled over thus because I have a decent respect for you. I would never deliberately ignore you but it's 2am here and although I'm tired I'm still trying to reply out of courtesy.

I'm not ignoring you or the Holy Books.

 

[Vinayaka]

When I was first learning of the Baha'i Faith, they'd often say, "We don't make Baha'is... We find them." Meaning they'd find people that already believed in peace, love, unity, that all people are one, etc. Who's not gong to believe things like that aren't true? The next step would be to convince them that Baha'u'llah is the "promised" one of all religions. That is the big problem... as we can see here. I got some more stuff, but I'm gong to do it off a different one of your posts. See you in a minute or two.

Those manuals "How to approach the _______ with the good news." are really funny documents. Many are on-line for all to read. Not sure if they even realise the internet is open, for all to read, especially the victims.

 

[Esoqq]

@loverofhumanity

You're literally saying:

1. God is the boss of all

2. Bahaullah speaks for the boss

3. Culture, traditions, and languages are just expressions of different religions

4. All religions share one truth

5. Of course, we respect different faiths and they respect us

but you're not considering

1. God is not the boss of all because not all religions have god

2. Bahallauh is in no other religion but yours not even in revealed religions. (No Bahaullah in the Eucharist)

3. These religious truths are their expressions

What people wear are their truths.
What people pray are their truths
How people dance are their truths.

You have different truths then they do. If not, why not be Hindu? Christian? Muslim? You can't be all at one time because they all have different expressions and their expressions are their truths.

4. All religions do not share one truth because their expressions are different as a result their truths are different. Yours included.

5. Respect for you and crossing their boundaries are two different things.

Respect for people's faiths is saying to a Hindu "Can I participate in Puja. I never been to a Hindu temple before and I wanted to visit" or even more so "When are you not having Puja. I'd like to visit your temple because I am interested in your beliefs."

Cultural appropriation is: "Hindu. We (Bahai) would like to come to your temple because we share the same god as you. In that we are allowed to worship with you in Puja and take the same positions many Hindu and their elders share because we are just like you." Even more so, "Also, Hindu, we (Bahai) understand that you don't agree with us and we (basically don't care) because what we receive comes straight from god."

Yes, a Hindu will respect you as a human being, same goals, and such but if you are practicing the latter, which Bahaullah actually is, respect is about as far as you can get.

If you want to really respect a person's faith beyond tolerance and agreeing to disgree, you would not do the latter but the former. You would respect their boundaries and not incorporate their beliefs and gods into your own.

Even more so

You would not tell them that they believe X when they know that Y is true.

You will not reinterpret their religion based on Bahaullah's interpretations.

Once you do that, that is not respect at all.

This is purely my view, (NOT BAHA'I)
What people believe in is limited by what their human mind is capable of comprehending at the time.
It is human nature to desire to understand and we speculate greatly in our attempt to understand.
When someone is tapped by the Manifestation and given a mission, their desire to understand naturally leads them to question the Manifestation. Questions based upon the Messenger's life experiences, not the mission. The Manifestation answers the question but since these questions aren't part of it's mission, it's answers aren't as comprehensive and understandable since the mind of the Messenger suffers from it's limited capabilities.
What people are capable of understanding today is much greater than it was even when Baha'u'llah was borned. This is why we're capable of understanding today that which we could not understand centuries ago.
Most religions share the same Spiritual truths and goals and that is for humanity to live together in love and harmony. While most directly invoke God, whether they do or not, the goals are the same.
The one aspect of the Baha'i faith that makes it desirable over other religions is it's encouragement of independent investigations and that includes investigating other religions.
From my perspective, if you understand and live by the spiritual message of your religion you're right where you're supposed to be.
The Baha'i mission, according to my understanding, is to lead the human race past the disaster that awaits us or at the very least, to cushion the impact, so that when we emerge on the other side we will be ready to unite as a species and put an end to human generated evil.

 

[Vinayaka]

The one aspect of the Baha'i faith that makes it desirable over other religions is it's encouragement of independent investigations and that includes investigating other religions.

This is not at all unique to Bahai. Practically all faiths encourage independent investigation. Mine practically insists on it, and at an internal level, through meditation, it absolutely does.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please don't assume I'm not understanding you but I'm not agreeing with your reasoning that we can't believe in other religions.

Thank you. I really wanted to know if you understood what I say. I know we disagree a lot but when I decipher what you post, reply to it, and sometimes get general answers or one sentence phrases that have nothing to do with what I asked or posted, I do wonder if you misunderstood or don't understand.

1. So you're saying for example, we can't incorporate Buddha into our religion without getting permission from Buddhists? Please answer yes or no so I know what you are defining as 'borders'.

If yes who exactly are we supposed to ask? There are many sects of Buddhism are you saying we need to ask them all? Yes or no. Please clearly define it simply.

1. Yes.

I indented the examples and answered your questions with the non-indented text.

With this it's hard to give a straight answer without examples. The other questions are straight forward answers.

2. I've tried to explain it by the native american example.

A POW WOW is a public festival where different tribes come to celebrate memorial day and other American festival days. Mostly they are federally recognized reservations.

Cultural appropriation is if I were a white, male, christian, majority league and I came to the festival. Instead of enjoying the festivities like people would assume, I ask native americans about their beliefs and associate myself as a native american because I have, for pretend, 1 percent native blood in me. It is also saying "I like your outfit. Can I wear it" when it isn't for sale because it's a ceremonial outfit. It's an expression of that tribes truth. When I appropriate it in to my own on purpose and with my own acknowledgement I am committing a cultural crime (in my eyes). I would never do that.​

So permission or respect really starts with you. It's acknowledging that you have a boundary that other religions do not want you to cross and how you receive permission is how you verbally and by action do not cross those boundaries.

Permission is given, for example when I went to the Hindu temple. If I said I am Hindu because I share the same goals, on surface level, maybe. But cultural and religious level, I am not. So if I took the red yarn they they had and I purposely put it on my wrist, that is cultural appropriation. The priest (forgot the title) actually put the yarn around my wrist and explained to me what it was for.
​

This is how you get permission. It's more than respect but how you present yourself and what you say about other faiths that is different than your own.

When you say "I have a mind of a Hindu" that, on surface level, we can probably see. But throughout the conversation, it was more that you consider yourself a Hindu then later on, you say you're not.

You have yet to address that post. But it's too late now.​

Another example,

I went to a Zen Veitnamese Buddhist temple with a friend whose mother is Veitnamese Buddhist. How I got respect was, well culturally, I took off my shoes, bowed to the priest, to The Buddha, and kept my space given male/female status. Respect isn't just with respecting cultures, though. Cultures/expressions are a person's truths.
​

So, I received permission by how I presented myself to the priest. How I conducted my behavior in his home. Things of that nature. It is a temple but also part of his personal residence. He let us go into his private altar room where his pictures were etc...and that was permission.

Cultural appropriation is even though I respect him on a cultural level, I take his beliefs and/or his cultural items and put them into my own beliefs and practices without respect from the origin and practice to which it belongs.

I can give a lot of examples.

Best I can do.

2. So you are also saying Baha'u'llah is not allowed to interpret the Holy Books of other religions. Yes or no? Is that what you consider disrespectful yes or no?

1. Yes
2. Yes

3. So are you saying Baha'u'llah has no right to claim He is the Promised One of the Holy Books of the major religions.? Yes or no?

1. Yes

4. So we cannot say all religions are one and have that as our belief? Yes or no? Clear answer please.

1. Yes

5. So Baha'u'llah and Baha'is have no right to try and unite all the religions into one common Faith? Yes or no? (We couldn't do that anyway unless the followers of other Faiths chose to do that.)

1. Yes

Of course they have to have mutual agreement. On this thread, you saw that's not the case. By my experience, it isn't.

7. Our religion can't teach that Buddha taught about the oneness of God unless Buddhists agree and give us permission to do so? Yes or no please clearly.

1. No

Pleas be more specific. Cultural appropriation is a term for me but I would understand you much better if you answer these questions very simply and clearly. No jargon, no examples, just straight forward answers yes or no then we can move on from there.

Cultural appropriation is taking beliefs and/or practices of religion and putting it into another.

Who and how do we ask permission? Do we write a letter to the Pope? The Dalai Lama? Please give specific examples of what you mean by 'asking permission' because you are not specific.

I gave examples above in the POW WOW and Buddhist examples in the quotes.

Whom exactly do we write to and what are we supposed to ask for.? Pleae give specific examples. One or so examples will do.

They are above.

Wrap up. Permission includes

1. Recognizing TLC is not just an expression but it is a truth. Since all truths/expressions differ, there are different truths.

2. Respecting beyond surface level is understanding boundaries between you and a particular faith where mutual respect is agreed on without taking beliefs without proper initiation from a said religion.

3. Permission includes if you believe in Christianity, be initiated as a Christian. Many faiths have initiations before you understand the nature of their truth. Study and like goals don't cut it.

4. Take interest and learn about other religions outside revealed ones. World peace incorporates more than five or six religions.

5. Take into consideration the truth that other revealed religions have that differ than your own. Accept them as truths. Understand them as truths. Or say you are right and they are wrong. Nothing wrong with that. It's being honest.

Among other ways to "ask permission."

That or you can

6. Literally ask if you can be a part of this ritual or have this belief or own this item that is a part of a said religion. If they allow you to take X without that feeling of oppression, that's permission.

7. Look at it from a individual basis not a global or group one. No generalizations and see things positively. It will help tons if we see religious traditions as positive. Other religions do, why not you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since the current interpretations have caused so many wars and divisions isn't an interpretation that can heal the wounds needed?

Some countries believe in democracy others do not. Same as spiritual truths. It's individual. Mutual agreement is needed not a one person interpretation.

Many people have found their wounds healed by accepting Baha'u'llah's clarification of centuries old misunderstandings.

I understand that. You have to understand that not everyone finds their wounds healed by Bahaullah's clarification. Understanding isn't just "oh, that makes sense." It's knowing the truth in my and other people's way of healing that does not incorporate Bahaullah and god.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Without strings, yes. Let's talk about conversion. The Hindu says, "Go away. Hinduism isn't for you, because you already have a beautiful religion."

Whereas the Abrahamics go out saying, "Something is wrong with you. You need fixing, and I'm here, I'm here with the good news for you. All you need to do is believe in _________ (insert prophets name here)and your life will be so wonderful."

I actually find this all quite funny as I mentioned to adrian the other day.

It's all about putting people and humanity first.

 

[CG Didymus]

World peace conferences are held a lot. Many people from various countries come together to discuss world peace. Though most know the boundaries between sharing goals and sharing culture and traditions. A Cherokee at a World Peace Conference wouldn't ask to take anything of Hindu culture just because they are discussing the same goals. There are boundaries. Bahai doesn't have that. Their world peace is under one person and if they were to go to that conference, it would cause discord because if these other people know Bahai religion, they'd see their religion as misinterpreted. Most minority religions try not to do that. Catholicism isn't a minority religion.

Hi again, Back in the '80's I got involved with some Baha'is and were going to different Peace Conferences. "Beyond War" was the main one. We were also going to an Ecumenical Peace group. It was all very liberal Christian churches, no Fundamental ones, the Baha'is and a Reformed Jewish Synagogue.

The Rabbi held a meeting at his Synagogue, and all the representatives said nice, short little speeches. Just general stuff like "Let's all work together for peace." Not the Baha'i representative. She felt obligated to share a recently published [this was in 1985] document from the Baha'i Universal House of Justice called "The Promise of World Peace."

It was long. And because she was reading it, she wasn't really connecting with the audience. One guy looked at his watch, then his wife. People started squirming in their seats. She occasionally looked up and finally realized that nobody was listening. She cut it off short and said, "There's more, but it's getting late." Mumbles in the crowd were saying, "Thank God."

This proclamation is by the "infallible" Baha'i leadership in Haifa, Israel. But nobody cared... Because she wasn't the one going to the Ecumenical group meetings. She was the higher up, the "official" Baha'i spokesperson. She had no connection with these people. She did disrespect them. It would be like a Christian going there and start reading the New Testament to them. This was like a first formal date between the general membership of the different religious groups that had representatives in the Ecumenical Peace group. Bad first impression. It was an obvious attempt at pushing the Baha'i Faith as being superior. It backfired. Never again was there a meeting at that Synagogue.

A couple of years later the Baha'i Faith had a Peace Conference in San Francisco in which they invited people from several religions and ethnic groups to speak. They had a few Native American speakers there. One of them was a Hopi, Thomas Banyacya who spoke about Hopi prophecies. This was definitely an incredible event. Since it was a Baha'i event, the general meetings were all about their peace proclamation, but it really isn't a bad document, just to long to read to those poor people at the Ecumenical meeting.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's all about putting people and humanity first.

It is? So people come before God?

One of the things I've noticed is that some Bahai tend to speak in very simplistic platitudes without going into detail. For example, 'with or without Baha'u'llah?" to the above example will render you speechless. You and I both know that you honestly think you have to have Baha'u'llah in the equation, and you and I also both know I think that's totally unnecessary. So this is what I mean by 'with conditions'.

So it's contradictory or a least, an incomplete statement for you to say. It's nicety with a hidden agenda. But with people like me, or people with a general sense of doubt about such claims, it simply doesn't work.

 

[CG Didymus]

Those manuals "How to approach the _______ with the good news." are really funny documents. Many are on-line for all to read. Not sure if they even realise the internet is open, for all to read, especially the victims.

Every once in a while I watch Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort on "The Way of the Master". They get people to admit they are sinners. In a way it's a crack up, but in a pitiful way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hi again, Back in the '80's I got involved with some Baha'is and were going to different Peace Conferences. "Beyond War" was the main one. We were also going to an Ecumenical Peace group. It was all very liberal Christian churches, no Fundamental ones, the Baha'is and a Reformed Jewish Synagogue.

The Rabbi held a meeting at his Synagogue, and all the representatives said nice, short little speeches. Just general stuff like "Let's all work together for peace." Not the Baha'i representative. She felt obligated to share a recently published [this was in 1985] document from the Baha'i Universal House of Justice called "The Promise of World Peace."

It was long. And because she was reading it, she wasn't really connecting with the audience. One guy looked at his watch, then his wife. People started squirming in their seats. She occasionally looked up and finally realized that nobody was listening. She cut it off short and said, "There's more, but it's getting late." Mumbles in the crowd were saying, "Thank God."

This proclamation is by the "infallible" Baha'i leadership in Haifa, Israel. But nobody cared... Because she wasn't the one going to the Ecumenical group meetings. She was the higher up, the "official" Baha'i spokesperson. She had no connection with these people. She did disrespect them. It would be like a Christian going there and start reading the New Testament to them. This was like a first formal date between the general membership of the different religious groups that had representatives in the Ecumenical Peace group. Bad first impression. It was an obvious attempt at pushing the Baha'i Faith as being superior. It backfired. Never again was there a meeting at that Synagogue.

A couple of years later the Baha'i Faith had a Peace Conference in San Francisco in which they invited people from several religions and ethnic groups to speak. They had a few Native American speakers there. One of them was a Hopi, Thomas Banyacya who spoke about Hopi prophecies. This was definitely an incredible event. Since it was a Baha'i event, the general meetings were all about their peace proclamation, but it really isn't a bad document, just to long to read to those poor people at the Ecumenical meeting.

I wish I had a longer comment to say about this, but I'm stunned. I haven't met or heard a Bahais in person or t.v.; so, I'm out of the loop in their political expressions. But this was informational.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Vinayaka]

Every once in a while I watch Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort on "The Way of the Master". They get people to admit they are sinners. In a way it's a crack up, but in a pitiful way.

It's funny. The first statement in the manual is generally something like this "Try to first show a general interest in their religion"... In other words. "pretend that you care," Fortunately less and less people are falling for it all.

Yeah I watch Franklin Graham occasionally, just for the laughs.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Thank you. I really wanted to know if you understood what I say. I know we disagree a lot but when I decipher what you post, reply to it, and sometimes get general answers or one sentence phrases that have nothing to do with what I asked or posted, I do wonder if you misunderstood or don't understand.



1. Yes.

I indented the examples and answered your questions with the non-indented text.

With this it's hard to give a straight answer without examples. The other questions are straight forward answers.

2. I've tried to explain it by the native american example.


Best I can do.



1. Yes
2. Yes



1. Yes



1. Yes



1. Yes

Of course they have to have mutual agreement. On this thread, you saw that's not the case. By my experience, it isn't.



1. No



Cultural appropriation is taking beliefs and/or practices of religion and putting it into another.



I gave examples above in the POW WOW and Buddhist examples in the quotes.



They are above.

Wrap up. Permission includes

1. Recognizing TLC is not just an expression but it is a truth. Since all truths/expressions differ, there are different truths.

2. Respecting beyond surface level is understanding boundaries between you and a particular faith where mutual respect is agreed on without taking beliefs without proper initiation from a said religion.

3. Permission includes if you believe in Christianity, be initiated as a Christian. Many faiths have initiations before you understand the nature of their truth. Study and like goals don't cut it.

4. Take interest and learn about other religions outside revealed ones. World peace incorporates more than five or six religions.

5. Take into consideration the truth that other revealed religions have that differ than your own. Accept them as truths. Understand them as truths. Or say you are right and they are wrong. Nothing wrong with that. It's being honest.

Among other ways to "ask permission."

That or you can

6. Literally ask if you can be a part of this ritual or have this belief or own this item that is a part of a said religion. If they allow you to take X without that feeling of oppression, that's permission.

7. Look at it from a individual basis not a global or group one. No generalizations and see things positively. It will help tons if we see religious traditions as positive. Other religions do, why not you.

Thanks Carlita for the clarification. Much appreciated.
I read everything and understood what you said.

So the way you or other religions would view the Baha'is is we don't really have the right to call ourselves a religion because most if our beliefs or a lot of them are appropriated from other Faiths.

1. So we basically don't have the right to exist as a religion according to you and other religions right?

2. What rights does Bahaullah have in your eyes if any?

3. Yes I'm more than happy to learn from you all and about other religions and try to see it from your view as well as accept the truths in these religions. Only we reject things like terrorism but that's common sense.

4. I see traditions as good and positive. In previous discussions I only mentioned that some traditions like the status of women have changed from what they were 2,000 years ago. Etc

I think I've addressed mist comments by you. It's 3 am now so if I don't answer then it's because I need to rest.

But tomorrow the new posts links seems to disapoearvandvtyen I have trouble finding new posts so please if I don't seem to answer just remind me and quote the post number.

I really enjoy reading your posts and I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is? So people come before God?

One of the things I've noticed is that some Bahai tend to speak in very simplistic platitudes without going into detail. For example, 'with or without Baha'u'llah?" to the above example will render you speechless. You and I both know that you honestly think you have to have Baha'u'llah in the equation, and you and I also both know I think that's totally unnecessary. So this is what I mean by 'with conditions'.

So it's contradictory or a least, an incomplete statement for you to say. It's nicety with a hidden agenda. But with people like me, or people with a general sense of doubt about such claims, it simply doesn't work.

Actually, I went into very extensive detail in answering this post almost a page long. To try and explain how it's nothing to do with conversion.

Then I thought it would just tire and bore you so I deleted the over hundred words I toyed and just put in the simple postitydecas you call it. I went into international law, collective security and a host of other topics in depth but I thought it would burden you so removed it.

Now you tell me we avoid details. Lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

Actually, I went into very extensive detail in answering this post almost a page long. To try and explain how it's nothing to do with conversion.

Then I thought it would just tire and bore you so I deleted the over hundred words I toyed and just put in the simple postitydecas you call it. I went into international law, collective security and a host of other topics in depth but I thought it would burden you so removed it.

Now you tell me we avoid details. Lol.

There are no details about Bahai that you won't cover, indeed. But it starts out with overly simplistic platitudes with vague words like 'unity' whatever that means.

I have absolutely no idea what a postitydecas is. Not a word I've ever used.

Then you say you're seriously interested in other faiths. After nearly 2000 posts, I seriously doubt you know much a bout mine at all. lol

Sleep well.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's 1:38 p.m. here, so you must be way on the other side of the world. Just in general...

Thanks Carlita for the clarification. Much appreciated.
I read everything and understood what you said.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

So the way you or other religions would view the Baha'is is we don't really have the right to call ourselves a religion because most if our beliefs or a lot of them are appropriated from other Faiths.

To put it bluntly?

You don't have the right to call yourself as religion if

1. You don't identify as another religion 100 percent
2. You were not initiated into that said belief by the elders of that religion
3. Do not believe in the core tenants of that belief without influence of your own.

A lot of your core beliefs are reinterpretations of other religions (the revealed ones) and discard ones (the rest) but at the same time you want unity among all humanity yet disregard their TLC as mere expressions without them being actual truths.

It's not just your beliefs, it's how your beliefs view and interpret others is the issue. Christ being the redeemer of all doesn't harm anyone. If someone indoctrinated someone and said someone would go to hell if they didn't believe in christ, that's different. Just an example not comparison.

1. So we basically don't have the right to exist as a religion according to you and otyer religions right?

Just respect other religious boundaries. If your religion is made up of interpretation of other religions, yes-to pt it bluntly. I just wouldn't put it that way.

If you are seeking peace and unity among humanity, it doesn't mean you have to give up respect other faiths it just means respect their boundaries and don't identify with people you are not in body with 100 percent.

2. What rights does Bahaullah have in your eyes if any?

Bahaullah is a human like christ and myself. I don't see a difference in that regard. Unlike Bahaullah and Christ, I don't have make many truths into one and the latter I don't put one truth over people I would think are wrong.

3. Yes I'm more than happy to learn from you all and about otyer religions and try to see it from your view as well as accept the truths in these religions. Only we reject things like terrorism but that's common sense.

Yes. Respect goes beyond that, though. We agree on goals et cetera. @Vinayaka talks about actually understanding his (or her?) belief as a Hindu, from a Hindu perspective, not Bahaullah.

What you're talking about is political. I'm talking about respect for other people's spiritual truths.

4. I see traditions as good and positive. In previous discussions I only mentioned that some traditions like the status of women have changed from what they were 2,000 years ago. Etc

We had a good two or three post discussion on good vs bad traditions recently.

I think I've addressed mist comments by you. It's 3 am now so if I don't answer then it's because I need to rest.

Get some rest. I should be studying.

But tomorrow the new posts links seems to disapoearvandvtyen I have trouble finding new posts so please if I don't seem to answer just remind me and quote the post number.

I really enjoy reading your posts and I'm sorry for the confusion.

When you wake up, let me know what "disapoearvandvtyen" means.

 

[Esoqq]

This is not at all unique to Bahai. Practically all faiths encourage independent investigation. Mine practically insists on it, and at an internal level, through meditation, it absolutely does.

That has not been my experience. Most encourage studying, praying and meditating on their religion but not so much the other religions.
I agree with you on meditation. It is the most useful tool I know of when it comes to advancing ones spiritual understanding and evolution and when I apply it to any religion I gain some understanding both of the religion I'm focused on and my personal religion as well.

 

[Vinayaka]

That has not been my experience. Most encourage studying, praying and meditating on their religion but not so much the other religions.
I agree with you on meditation. It is the most useful tool I know of when it comes to advancing ones spiritual understanding and evolution and when I apply it to any religion I gain some understanding both of the religion I'm focused on and my personal religion as well.

For many Christian groups, the style of meditation used in Hindu practice would make them apostate to their faith.

Investigating and researching religions is done in two ways, one as a sincere exploration, like we see here on RF in the seekers section, usually by people with no previous religion.

But the people who are attached or programmed to a certain religion 'seek' in other ways, like to see how it looks through their glasses, or to learn strategies for conversion. In this very thread, it is mostly the first one, at least for my faith, to see how Hinduism fits into Bahai, although I'm not yet sure. So hence instead of having just Muhammed and Jesus or other prophets, as manifestations, it gets falsely extended to Krishna as well. So far no Bahai here has demonstrated any real understanding of Hinduism, because its always through Bahai eyes, as a comparative study, and that's just the subconscious mind doing what it does. Heck, I probably do it in the opposite sense.