How bad is the anti-trans movement going to get?

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't follow Lenin, who offers no authority on economics.

It's the fact there are no pure economies. Capitalism itself has a terrible record, but there's been centuries to work out problems amd create legislation where necessary, and it's still a struggle against a heavily rigged system.
It's also the fact there is no one size fits all approach to socialism/communism (they are their own worst enemy, afterall) and it's bull**** to say DS endorses such heinous things. He's clearly one of the more reasonable and level headed members here. You should simple just know better and realized how wrong that was as you repeatedly typed that bogus accusation. Or do you support slavery, military ventures for capitalist gain and knowingly releasing bad products? After all where we see Capitalism we have seen and do see those things. Capitalist America itself even still today has slavery, while companies from here and abroad sell things that have slave labor somewhere along the production chain.
It's why I say it doesn't matter the economy, the state is gonna do what the state wants to do. Economies mostly have been mixed with different things and happenings, with fuedalism and and the ancient Greeks having the same basic market trading we have today. Smaller scale, of course, but even hack silver for goods and services is the same basic principle of monied trade we practice today. Capitalism just put a name on what had already been happening as a norm since we settled down as a species, made permanent settlements more a norm and also began to have specializing in a trade as we shifted away from tribal communism.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's the fact there are no pure economies. Capitalism itself has a terrible record, but there's been centuries to work out problems amd create legislation where necessary, and it's still a struggle against a heavily rigged system.
It's also the fact there is no one size fits all approach to socialism/communism (they are their own worst enemy, afterall) and it's bull**** to say DS endorses such heinous things. He's clearly one of the more reasonable and level headed members here. You should simple just know better and realized how wrong that was as you repeatedly typed that bogus accusation. Or do you support slavery, military ventures for capitalist gain and knowingly releasing bad products? After all where we see Capitalism we have seen and do see those things. Capitalist America itself even still today has slavery, while companies from here and abroad sell things that have slave labor somewhere along the production chain.
It's why I say it doesn't matter the economy, the state is gonna do what the state wants to do. Economies mostly have been mixed with different things and happenings, with fuedalism and and the ancient Greeks having the same basic market trading we have today. Smaller scale, of course, but even hack silver for goods and services is the same basic principle of monied trade we practice today. Capitalism just put a name on what had already been happening as a norm since we settled down as a species, made permanent settlements more a norm and also began to have specializing in a trade as we shifted away from tribal communism.

Yeah, sometimes what is going on, is this.
I as a given person have training in dealing with objective factors, therefore we can build society on the same principle. We find the correct definitions, treat them as objective and presto we have the best system.
The problem is that there is no we in society as an objective fact. That is a social construct and always involves them. But that is no problem, because they are negatives and thus not relevant.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's the fact there are no pure economies. Capitalism itself has a terrible record, but there's been centuries to work out problems amd create legislation where necessary, and it's still a struggle against a heavily rigged system.
It's also the fact there is no one size fits all approach to socialism/communism (they are their own worst enemy, afterall) and it's bull**** to say DS endorses such heinous things. He's clearly one of the more reasonable and level headed members here. You should simple just know better and realized how wrong that was as you repeatedly typed that bogus accusation. Or do you support slavery, military ventures for capitalist gain and knowingly releasing bad products? After all where we see Capitalism we have seen and do see those things. Capitalist America itself even still today has slavery, while companies from here and abroad sell things that have slave labor somewhere along the production chain.
It's why I say it doesn't matter the economy, the state is gonna do what the state wants to do. Economies mostly have been mixed with different things and happenings, with fuedalism and and the ancient Greeks having the same basic market trading we have today. Smaller scale, of course, but even hack silver for goods and services is the same basic principle of monied trade we practice today. Capitalism just put a name on what had already been happening as a norm since we settled down as a species, made permanent settlements more a norm and also began to have specializing in a trade as we shifted away from tribal communism.

Unlike Norwegian bachelor farmers, I'm not "pure mostly".
Not pure at all. Instead of invoking personalities to define
economics, eg, Marx, Lenin, I prefer to deal with descriptions
of the actual structures. (Labels are so unreliable these days.)

As for criticizing what DS endorses, I dealt with a specific
scenario he proffered. I say it is evil because of how it
has always played out in the real world. The point there,
which I'd prefer that you address, is that even though he
holds beliefs I find evil, he imagines positive results.
So I don't treat him as an evil person.

BTW, I think he's a good person. Just led astray while in
pursuit of good intentions. I want to turn him from the
dark side, not excoriate him. Civil discourse is the most
effective tool....even when wielded by a blunt jerk.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is there any topic that you don't try to bend to your irrational hatred of Republicans?

What do you think makes it irrational?

 

[syo]

(I tried to get the actual screen shot posted here, or a link to the screen shot, but for some reason I could not get it to work. Sorry if you don't like to watch videos but that is the best I could do)

The question was asked about public execution of Doctors, Therapists, Teachers and Guidance Counselors who help trans children.

The response was very enthusiastic. People who responded were very much in favour of killing teachers, doctors etc. Anyone who helps a trans child.


How dark is this going to get?

Internet. People write things.

 

[Father Heathen]

Is there any topic that you don't try to bend to your irrational hatred of Republicans?

Hate is a rather strong word, but of course I disapprove of those who would deny others freedom, rights, equality, and justice, especially over stupid superstitions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The point there,
which I'd prefer that you address, is that even though he
holds beliefs I find evil, he imagines positive results.
So I don't treat him as an evil person.

The only one doing any imagining is your imagining that he beliefs in evil things. It's like saying you support evil just because Capitalism has been evil. But I know you don't support things like opening fire on union supporters and those on strike so it would be unfair of me to claim you suppurt evil just because those evils have been a capitalist way of doing business. You also differ from many capitalists in terms of resource consumption and usage, so it would also be fair to say support the wanton, endless unsustainable consumption that has come with Capitalism.

BTW, I think he's a good person. Just led astray while in
pursuit of good intentions. I want to turn him from the
dark side, not excoriate him. Civil discourse is the most
effective tool....even when wielded by a blunt jerk.

Civil discourse isn't telling someone they believe in evil after they have corrected you. That's more in line with a Conservative Evangelical discourse than civil discourse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hate is a rather strong word, but of course I disapprove of those who would deny others freedom, rights, equality, and justice, especially over stupid superstitions.

It is hubris they still insist they are the party of liberty and freedom. The ideologies have never changed and it's still really nothing more than freedom for white men they support, just adding Christian, straight and cis to the list over years of those who may have rights in America.

 

[Revoltingest]

The only one doing any imagining is your imagining that he beliefs in evil things. It's like saying you support evil just because Capitalism has been evil. But I know you don't support things like opening fire on union supporters and those on strike so it would be unfair of me to claim you suppurt evil just because those evils have been a capitalist way of doing business. You also differ from many capitalists in terms of resource consumption and usage, so it would also be fair to say support the wanton, endless unsustainable consumption that has come with Capitalism.

Civil discourse isn't telling someone they believe in evil after they have corrected you. That's more in line with a Conservative Evangelical discourse than civil discourse.

It's not merely disagreement.
You're not understanding my point of view.
I've nothing new to add.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not merely disagreement.
You're not understanding my point of view.
I've nothing new to add.

I understand it. You think he believes in something rotten but is doing mental gymnastics to work around that.
But if that's fair then it's a fair accusation against you.
However it's absurd because neither of you believe in evil. I understand, I'm just saying you should know better.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not merely disagreement.
You're not understanding my point of view.
I've nothing new to add.

Yeah, your system is evil to me and you don't understand my point of view. Go figure.

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand it. You think he believes in something rotten but is doing mental gymnastics to work around that.
But if that's fair then it's a fair accusation against you.

It's a fair accusation that he & others make regularly,
eg, libertarianism is horrible, & free speech is excessive.
I recognize that he & others have very different values
from me regarding governmental authority. This is
largely about personal preference....not facts.

About mental gymnastics....
Socialism that eliminates capitalism has demonstrably
terrible results in 100% of trials. I've shown that socialism
(the kind with capitalism) has the potential for agreed upon
positive results. (We'll set aside the occasional argument
that N Korea & USSR are positive.)
To advocate against socialism (the kind with capitalism)
is to advocate for results generally agreed to be evil.
This is irrational because such advocates posit positive
results will happen this time around. It ignores empiricism.
Thus, "mental gymnastics".

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, your system is evil to me and you don't understand my point of view. Go figure.

I already know you find my views evil. No problem.
I don't understand yours enuf to apply a label. Your
phrasing & stream-of-consciousness style are very
hard for me to grok.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I already know you find my views evil. No problem.
I don't understand yours enuf to apply a label. Your
phrasing & stream-of-consciousness style are very
hard for me to grok.

Well, there are several reasons to that. I use continental English, I use meta and the absurd. And yes, I am neuro diverse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, there are several reasons to that. I use continental English, I use meta and the absurd. And yes, I am neuro diverse.

A word comes to mind.
But we're not going there.
I'll continue to try to decipher your meaning, & respond at times.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

A word comes to mind.
But we're not going there.
I'll continue to try to decipher your meaning.

Well, here an example. I only express opinions and decide what is reasonable in a debate, so I can decide if what you do is reasonable.

Is this reasonable an opinion or what?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

About mental gymnastics....
Socialism that eliminates capitalism has demonstrably
terrible results in 100% of trials. I've shown that socialism
(the kind with capitalism) has the potential for agreed upon
positive results. (We'll set aside the occasional argument
that N Korea & USSR are positive.)
To advocate against socialism (the kind with capitalism)
is to advocate for results generally agreed to be evil.
This is irrational because such advocates posit positive
results will happen this time around. It ignores empiricism.

There's no mental gymnastics on his part just your reluctance to accept there is no universal approach to socialism.
Amd as I showed you, even Lenin had a mixed economy. Stalin did his thing, but his thing was so terrible that reforms began after his death. Amd even DS said he doesn't favor entirely eliminating capitalism. Not many do. The Castro brothers did, but then they reversed that decision and began allowing some.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's no mental gymnastics on his part just your reluctance to accept there is no universal approach to socialism.

You're missing the nature of our disagreements.
They're too involved to address your version of them.
So I'll pass.
But if you want, we could discuss what you advocate
in another thread.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Yeesh. I can't believe how bad its getting. The legislation alone has blown up to a degree I had hoped we would never see here. But I guess we can't really underestimate the cornered conservative movement.

Bottom line is its getting real real real bad. Its already super bad in some states. Not "getting bad" it "is bad". We are up and over that hill. Nearly every single state has proposed legislation that is dark age draconian territory for trans folks. Unless we have some sort of sweeping national law passed while there is the slight majority in congress I don't have a good feeling about the upcoming years. The Trans Genocide is now in phase two it would seem and I wish I were being hyperbolic when I say this. I hope there won't be a phase three but to be honest I had really hoped it wouldn't be the point we are already at.

Florida is of course leading the way. What a time to live in the Sunshine state and be queer as hell.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeesh. I can't believe how bad its getting. The legislation alone has blown up to a degree I had hoped we would never see here. But I guess we can't really underestimate the cornered conservative movement.

Bottom line is its getting real real real bad. Its already super bad in some states. Not "getting bad" it "is bad". We are up and over that hill. Nearly every single state has proposed legislation that is dark age draconian territory for trans folks. Unless we have some sort of sweeping national law passed while there is the slight majority in congress I don't have a good feeling about the upcoming years. The Trans Genocide is now in phase two it would seem and I wish I were being hyperbolic when I say this. I hope there won't be a phase three but to be honest I had really hoped it wouldn't be the point we are already at.

Florida is of course leading the way. What a time to live in the Sunshine state and be queer as hell.

Genocide?
Piffle.
Beware expecting the fed to pass laws for you.
It's also the power to pass laws against you.