How can any true Christian accept an Appointing of a gay bishop ?

[McBell]

I figure he will be back with another screen name.
His ego will not allow him to just move on.

 

[Duck]

I'm guessing that he was just another sock puppet for one of our neighborhood trolls.

Couldn't be, his spelling and grammar were decipherable.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I figure he will be back with another screen name.
His ego will not allow him to just move on.

Any possibility that he is also 301ouncer?

Couldn't be, his spelling and grammar were decipherable.

That should be followed by a rimshot, but I don't know how to do it.
Rim Shot, Cool Sounds, Drums, Sound Bite

 

[Autodidact]

You'd really have to be disturbed to be so fascinated with other people's sex lives that you create alternate personalities just to rail about it online.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I'm guessing that he was just another sock puppet for one of our neighborhood trolls.

Never could get him to confirm that he was a Christian.....

 

[sandandfoam]

You'd really have to be disturbed to be so fascinated with other people's sex lives that you create alternate personalities just to rail about it online.

I think there's every chance it's envy that drives such apparently incoherent intolerance

 

[Autodidact]

I think I'll start a thread.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

You'd really have to be disturbed ...

You should have stopped right there. That pretty well covers the intolerant bigots, for my money.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Those who want punishment, who wish to perish alive, be unrepentant homosexuals. Or tell people that homosexuality is acceptable.

The problem I have with your logic is this.

The bible says you need to repent from your sins. and that you will not be tempted over what you are able to handle. This is all well and good. Christians have created many groups to help gay folks get over there homosexuality. They have not shown any success in turning gay people into straight people. In fact even the leaders of these groups have have when back to being gay. There has been studies on this subject that have shown that gay people can not be magically transformed in to straight ones. Truth must exist not only in the pages of scripture but in our everyday lives to be called truth.

I also feel like the modern American christian church has also picked what sins they find unacceptable. The teachings of poverty and nonviolence have been completely over looked by most evangelical christians.

 

[Duck]

The problem I have with your logic is this.

The bible says you need to repent from your sins. and that you will not be tempted over what you are able to handle. This is all well and good. Christians have created many groups to help gay folks get over there homosexuality. They have not shown any success in turning gay people into straight people. In fact even the leaders of this group haves have when back to being gay. There has been studies on this subject that have shown that gay people can not be magically transformed in to straight ones. Truth must exist not only in the pages of scripture but in our everyday lives to be called truth.

I also feel like the modern American christian church has also picked what sins they find unacceptable. The teachings of poverty and nonviolence have been completely over looked by most evangelical christians.

Of course the modern American christian church has picked what sins are unacceptable. First among those is being gay. A close second is being liberal. But they'll forgive you for being liberal.

As for the poverty, non-violence, tolerance, charity, peace, forgiveness and all of that, well that sounds like socialism to me mister! Them dang dirty hippies and their homo friends must have come up with all of that malarkey. :/

 

[McBell]

That should be followed by a rimshot, but I don't know how to do it.
Rim Shot, Cool Sounds, Drums, Sound Bite

Welcome to Instant Rimshot

 

[kender]

– how can you be a Christian and not follow the word of God ?

Wow, I don't think I have seen a thread blow up this large in this short of time in all the years I have been on the dozens of different forums I am a member of. I have not read all the posts so if what I say has been said I apologize.

As for the OP, you ask how can you be a christian and not follow the word of God? This is easy, to be a christian you are by definition defying the word of God. A christian accepts jesus christ as their lord and savior, prays to jesus, worships jesus and his teachings. The word of God says Thou shalt have no other gods before me. So in the worship of your religions name sake you defy the word of God. Your first argument is going to be the whole trinity ish. Look through your bible and find the passages where jesus himself has said he is not God along with versus like John 3:16 that illustrate the relationship between God and jesus.

To be a christian is to disobey the word of God, most christians may still try to follow the intent and the spirit of Gods word....which is what we all should do.... but for the literalist that can't think and contextualize the print of the bible you are just as much of a sinner as you believe homosexuals to be. Lucky for the LGBT community they are just as welcome in Gods kingdom as every other good hearted human.

 

[tomato1236]

– man has the eggs and woman has the womb – they are made exactly for each other

There are eggs in my junk?

 

[David M]

You seem to put the letter of the law above the spirit of the law. Given that, do you still insist that you are a Christian?

Even more its putting a translation of the letter of the law above the spirit of the law.

In 1 Corinthians there is ample argument that the passage should read:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the licentious [malakoi], nor temple prostitutes [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The same word, arsenokoites, is used in Romans. At the time the text was written its meaning was temple prostitute. And the meaning of malakoi (soft) in a moral sense refers to refers to unrestraint in respect to bodily pleasures (rather than when used in terms such as 'soft cloth').

What gives anyone the power to decide that you can pick and choose the prohibitions in leviticus that should be enforced among christians? There is plenty there that christians have no problem breaking.

Accepting the historic prejudices of european societies and the translators of the bible is not a good way to decide how the bible should be interpreted.

EDIT - didn't notice how many pages there were here, I expect this has already been mentioned.

 

[sojourner]

There are only eight passages in the Bible that could refer to what we, in post-modern American culture, might refer to as homosexuality -- only five for sure, and none of them discuss the issue at any length.

The same-sex activity referred to in the Bible doesn't refer to what we would normally mean by "homosexuality." There were homosexual acts that took place, but there wasn't the understanding of sexual orientation that we have today.

Leviticus condemns such activity for reasons that were particular to the context of ancient Israel, especially in relationship to the Holiness code. some concerns were centered around fertility and population; some were centered around the maintenance of gender superiority. Some were tied to the idea that shame and honor were imbedded in sexual identity.

One important issue was purity -- specifically ritual impurity. This is the same concern that dictates against having relations with a woman during her menstrual cycle.

Since we no longer have the population issues prevalent in ancient Israel; since we have thrown out many of the purity laws (such as millions of us watching Sunday afternoon football, where many men handle a dead pigskin -- a true Levitican taboo) it is hard to fathom that we still choose to condemn homosexuality.

In Paul's time, same-sex activity was common. Often it was used as a rite of passage, where male youths were subjected as passive partners to older men of power. When the boys became adult, they would switch roles, get married and have children.

This stands in stark contrast to the kind of homosexual relationships that are shared between consenting adults today.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

There are only eight passages in the Bible that could refer to what we, in post-modern American culture, might refer to as homosexuality -- only five for sure, and none of them discuss the issue at any length.

The same-sex activity referred to in the Bible doesn't refer to what we would normally mean by "homosexuality." There were homosexual acts that took place, but there wasn't the understanding of sexual orientation that we have today.

Leviticus condemns such activity for reasons that were particular to the context of ancient Israel, especially in relationship to the Holiness code. Some concerns were centered around fertility and population; some were centered around the maintenance of gender superiority. Some were tied to the idea that shame and honor were imbedded in sexual identity.

One important issue was purity -- specifically ritual impurity. This is the same concern that dictates against having relations with a woman during her menstrual cycle.

Since we no longer have the population issues prevalent in ancient Israel; since we have thrown out many of the purity laws (such as millions of us watching Sunday afternoon football, where many men handle a dead pigskin -- a true Levitican taboo) it is hard to fathom that we still choose to condemn homosexuality.

In Paul's time, same-sex activity was common. Often it was used as a rite of passage, where male youths were subjected as passive partners to older men of power. When the boys became adult, they would switch roles, get married and have children.

This stands in stark contrast to the kind of homosexual relationships that are shared between consenting adults today.

I think you have just made a profound point about culture, scriptural interpretation, and context that applies to every believer of every faith on every subject.

I have often thought that sex and the misuse of power in the roman empire, would have the gay community up in arms, over sexual exploitation of both slaves and poor youth. Thank you for this post.

 

[rusra02]

There are only eight passages in the Bible that could refer to what we, in post-modern American culture, might refer to as homosexuality -- only five for sure, and none of them discuss the issue at any length.

The same-sex activity referred to in the Bible doesn't refer to what we would normally mean by "homosexuality." There were homosexual acts that took place, but there wasn't the understanding of sexual orientation that we have today.

Leviticus condemns such activity for reasons that were particular to the context of ancient Israel, especially in relationship to the Holiness code. some concerns were centered around fertility and population; some were centered around the maintenance of gender superiority. Some were tied to the idea that shame and honor were imbedded in sexual identity.

One important issue was purity -- specifically ritual impurity. This is the same concern that dictates against having relations with a woman during her menstrual cycle.

Since we no longer have the population issues prevalent in ancient Israel; since we have thrown out many of the purity laws (such as millions of us watching Sunday afternoon football, where many men handle a dead pigskin -- a true Levitican taboo) it is hard to fathom that we still choose to condemn homosexuality.

In Paul's time, same-sex activity was common. Often it was used as a rite of passage, where male youths were subjected as passive partners to older men of power. When the boys became adult, they would switch roles, get married and have children.

This stands in stark contrast to the kind of homosexual relationships that are shared between consenting adults today.

God's word condemns all homosexuality, not just child abuse. Asserting that God's ban on homosexuality was due to "population issues" in Israel ignores what the Bible says in Leviticus. “When a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail.” (Leviticus 20:13)
This practice is covered by the word por·nei′a (“fornication”), used by Jesus and his disciples. The disciple Jude used that word when referring to the unnatural sex acts of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Jude 7) Homosexuality there caused degradation that produced a loud “cry of complaint.” And it led to God’s destruction of those cities and their inhabitants. (Genesis 18:20; 19:23, 24) I Corinthians 6:9, 10 lists “men who lie with men” among those who will not inherit God’s Kingdom if they continue such a practice. Also, describing the results to persons who ‘dishonor their bodies in uncleanness', going after “flesh for unnatural use,” the Bible says that they “became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.” (Romans 1:24, 27) The words "toward one another" indicate such conduct was often consensual. Such persons not only fall under God’s condemnation, but they also receive a “recompense” of mental and physical corruption.
As to those who choose to ignore or change what God commands in the Bible,
I am reminded of Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

 

[McBell]

As to those who choose to ignore or change what God commands in the Bible

Do you include yourself?

 

[David M]

God's word condemns all homosexuality, not just child abuse. Asserting that God's ban on homosexuality was due to "population issues" in Israel ignores what the Bible says in Leviticus. “When a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail.” (Leviticus 20:13)
This practice is covered by the word por·nei′a (“fornication”), used by Jesus and his disciples. The disciple Jude used that word when referring to the unnatural sex acts of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Jude 7) Homosexuality there caused degradation that produced a loud “cry of complaint.” And it led to God’s destruction of those cities and their inhabitants. (Genesis 18:20; 19:23, 24) I Corinthians 6:9, 10 lists “men who lie with men” among those who will not inherit God’s Kingdom if they continue such a practice. Also, describing the results to persons who ‘dishonor their bodies in uncleanness', going after “flesh for unnatural use,” the Bible says that they “became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.” (Romans 1:24, 27) The words "toward one another" indicate such conduct was often consensual. Such persons not only fall under God’s condemnation, but they also receive a “recompense” of mental and physical corruption.
As to those who choose to ignore or change what God commands in the Bible,
I am reminded of Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

God's word condemns "homesexuality" only because that is how certan passages have been translated from the original Hebrew and Greek you mean.

Leviticus 19:27 "" 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard" Ever had a haircut or shave?

There are many rules in Leviticus that christians no longer observe, picking one to support homophobia is dishonest. Either the rules in Levitcus apply to christians or they don't, if 20:13 applies then slavery is allowed (19:20) and you should be calling for everyone to be paid daily (19:13) and adulterers to be put to death (20:10).

 

[rusra02]

God's word condemns "homesexuality" only because that is how certan passages have been translated from the original Hebrew and Greek you mean.

Leviticus 19:27 "" 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard" Ever had a haircut or shave?

There are many rules in Leviticus that christians no longer observe, picking one to support homophobia is dishonest. Either the rules in Levitcus apply to christians or they don't, if 20:13 applies then slavery is allowed (19:20) and you should be calling for everyone to be paid daily (19:13) and adulterers to be put to death (20:10).

No, God's word condemns homosexuality because God condemns this practice.

While Christians are no longer under the law of Moses, the Bible says that "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). The Law of Moses gives insight into God's thinking on matters including homosexuality and adultery. "God will judge fornicators and adulterers" (Hebrews 13:4) The Christian Greek scriptures make it clear that homosexual conduct is a sin against God and that unrepentant homosexuals will not inherit God's kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10) That scripture contains this warning "Make no mistake: neither libertines nor...any who practice sodomy or submit to it... will inherit the reign of God" (Bible in Living English)