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How can any true Christian not accept a gay Bishop?

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
For many years the Jehovah's Witness literature said that Christ was going to come back in 1914. When he was a no show they said 1915.Then they tried 1917, 1918, and 1925. All of there dates failed.

im afraid you have that one wrong.

Our position still is that Christ returned in 1914. That year marked the end of the gentile times and its the year that Christ began to rule from his heavenly position. The Jw's have never thought that his return was going to be physical.
 
I want to ask you what makes you as a person believe in the religon that you believe, Pegg. I'm not being sarcastic I just am curious as to why you would believe it.
 

jonman122

Active Member
haha i love it when they say since Jesus was a no show that he did show up, he just didn't show up physically, only spiritually. what a lame excuse.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Gods standard for JW's is to marry someone in the religon, which excuse me, is a crock of bull.
Paul was giving 'advice' to unmarried christians and that advice is for the individual to either take on board or not. I was a JW and did not marry a JW...my husband is not a believer in religion. The elders in my congregation did not try to stop me from marrying an unbeliever and do you know why? Because its NOT a JW rule...it is given as 'advice' and the wise thing to do but it is most certainly not a 'rule'. My guess is that because your family are strict they have taught you that you must only marry another jw...but if you chose to marry a non believer im pretty confident you would not be disfellowshiped for it.

Elders shouldnt be ruling over anyone but they inforce the rules and if you disagree and decide to get away from it they arent suppose to talk to you.
The WT society tells elders the same thing. They are not allowed to make decisions for the members of the congregation....we are encouraged to live by our own conscience toward God based on accurate knowledge of his word. The elders are there only to teach, not to tell us what we can and cant' do.

Yes they are there to ensure that willful wrongdoers are removed from the congregation, but that is only to be expected of a religion who takes Gods word seriously enough to keep those who are not willing to abide by his standards out.

If you turn gay they arent suppose to talk to you if you find a mate.
If you choose a lifestyle that is opposed to Gods standards, then yes, you will be disfellowshiped and the congregation will be required to not talk to you. But disfellowshiped people can still attend meetings...its not like they will be locked out.
The goal is for them to come back and the door is always open for them.

It would be a bad move to become baptized because if you choose to not obey just one rule, you get disfellowshiped and are ignored by the whole congrigation, and even your family as it is RULE.
here is an excerpt from a WT article of 1981 entitled
'If a Relative is Disfellowshiped'
10 Similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshiped or has disassociated himself, blood and family ties remain. Does that mean, then, that in the family circle everything remains the same when one member is disfellowshiped? Definitely not.

11 A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family members—while acknowledging family ties—will no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him.
"

It is only spiritual fellowship which is refrained from. The family may still all live together and go shopping together and eat together etc...but its in spiritual matters that the disfellowshiped no longer participates...things such as family studies and witnessing or visiting other JW families for dinner.

I'm not trying to offend you i just dont think you understand.
Or your part is bending the rules, or you arent grasping them.

Its ok, im not offended at all. I can see that your experience has been much different to mine and I feel for you growing up in such a strict environment. I did not grow up as a jw and i have no immediate family who are jw's. I have a 14 year old son who has decided he does not want to attend meetings anymore and Im ok with that, its his choice. Did you know that the WT Society also hold the view that young ones have the right to make their own decisions in such matters?

In the booklet 'jehovahs witnesses and education' they state:

Religiously Divided Households
...In practice, all children have to decide what religion they will follow. Naturally, not all youths choose to follow the religious principles of their parents, whether Jehovah’s Witnesses or not.

Children’s Right to Freedom of Conscience

You should also know that Jehovah’s Witnesses attach much importance to the individual Christian conscience. (Romans, chapter 14) The Convention on the Rights of the Child, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989, recognized a child’s right to “freedom of thought, conscience and religion” and the right “to express his or her opinion freely and to have that opinion taken into account in any matter or procedure affecting the child.”

No two children are exactly alike. Therefore, you may reasonably expect some variations in the decisions that young Witnesses or other students make when it comes to certain activities and assignments at school. We trust that you also subscribe to the principle of freedom of conscience.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I want to ask you what makes you as a person believe in the religon that you believe, Pegg. I'm not being sarcastic I just am curious as to why you would believe it.

I didnt believe it immediately, it took several years of study to take it seriously.

I was never a religious person growing up, but i did always believe in a God although i had no real idea of who or what he was. I never believed in evolution...i found the idea that we evolved to be too far fetched as I always held the view that we must have got here somehow just not by natural means.

It was the prophecies of the bible that cemented my faith. I thought that it would be impossible for the writers of the bible to have predicted such things so precise and thats what made me really think about the possibility that God really had orchestrated the writing of the bible.

can i ask you if you ever got baptized?
 

jonman122

Active Member
In the southern united states, the Jehovahs witnesses follow what they would call the true word of god, and not much of it seems to coincide with what you consider to be your religion. Sounds like 2 different sects of Jehovah's Witnesses at this point. but its understandable, you live much further away and your congregation probably interprets it or enforces it differently than in the united states, where head base is.
 
It seems that things are rather different rule wise between the US and Australia. But I've been informed by my family already, my mother to be exact, that I would be completly cut off if i were to be athiest.
It doesnt change some of the rediculousness i see in the religon and beliefes, and i still do not agree.
however on the note of a disfellowshipped member attending again, they are to be ignored even inside the kingdom hall until the elders see fit that they wont 'corrupt' anyone.
As for gay people, i know that they are disfellowshipped here, though it may be different there. which ever one has the rules right though i do not know. I just know how i was brought up and how my grandparents think about other people. In the US it is a Cult, for obvious reasons.
I'm glad that you treated your son that way instead of getting angry with him, thats nice.

But back to the debate, I still think that no matter if a gay person finds a mate to be happy with, that he should be accpeted into the congrigation. Alot of the rules have been changed in time, to accommodate the way people want to live, and that rule will never change I'm sure.
 
I was never baptized. As a child my parents divorced and things went pretty awkward, on the short side my father saved me from making that mistake.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
In the southern united states, the Jehovahs witnesses follow what they would call the true word of god, and not much of it seems to coincide with what you consider to be your religion. Sounds like 2 different sects of Jehovah's Witnesses at this point. but its understandable, you live much further away and your congregation probably interprets it or enforces it differently than in the united states, where head base is.

well im not sure if that is really possible for the reason that all our literature comes from the same place...the USA.

There is only one writing dept and its based in the Brooklyn Bethel headquaters. There are printing facilities here in australia, but the information, including the public talk outlines, are all prepared in the US and its the only information we use.
 
well im not sure if that is really possible for the reason that all our literature comes from the same place...the USA.

There is only one writing dept and its based in the Brooklyn Bethel headquaters. There are printing facilities here in australia, but the information, including the public talk outlines, are all prepared in the US and its the only information we use.

Simply means that they enforce it different like he said, I think you misunderstood.
Different places enforce different ways with everything from polotics to religon.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
It seems that things are rather different rule wise between the US and Australia. But I've been informed by my family already, my mother to be exact, that I would be completly cut off if i were to be athiest.
im sorry your mum would say that...that seriously sux.

Faith is a personal matter and while your parents may adore their faith, its only 'their' faith. They are still your parents and your lack of belief is no reason to cut you off.

It doesnt change some of the rediculousness i see in the religon and beliefes, and i still do not agree.
however on the note of a disfellowshipped member attending again, they are to be ignored even inside the kingdom hall until the elders see fit that they wont 'corrupt' anyone.

yes thats true, the congregation are not to speak with a disfellowshiped person. I guess part of the reason for that is to keep the congregation united against wrongdoing...remember that a person will only be disfellowshiped if they continue to practice sin willfully. Its not a 'one strike and you're out' policy. A wrongdoer is given many opportunities to repent before they are disfellowshiped.

But back to the debate, I still think that no matter if a gay person finds a mate to be happy with, that he should be accpeted into the congrigation. Alot of the rules have been changed in time, to accommodate the way people want to live, and that rule will never change I'm sure.

i guess the thing is that the world has changed but the bible has not...Gods laws have remained the same as found in the bible...this is why the issue will always be there and the debate will continue.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Simply means that they enforce it different like he said, I think you misunderstood.
Different places enforce different ways with everything from polotics to religon.

yes its possible that culture may play a part...we may be more laid back here in oz and so we dont take things to such an extreme.

There are different personalities among JW's...some are what we call 'old school' which means they think in very black and white and tend to be very strict in certain matters. But others are more willing to see the grey areas and make allowances....it could also be as much about personalities as it is about culture.
 
There shouldnt be a nonstrict part of this religon. The religon is founded on strict, tight, intense rules. Rules that are aperently suppose to be followed and not skimmed around or else you are making the chance to 'stray from the path' larger.
I'm not saying your wrong, but thats how this religon was founded. The rules are quiet clear.
 
I'm going to open up a new thread in the JW DIR because I keep wanting to stray from the subject.

It is nice to know that everyone is uptight though. but i still think that you cant be straying from the rules.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I'm going to open up a new thread in the JW DIR because I keep wanting to stray from the subject.

It is nice to know that everyone is uptight though. but i still think that you cant be straying from the rules.

yep no worries

I think you will find that while there are rules, there is not only one way to apply the rule in all situations...and hopefully you'll see that some that you think are rules may not be rules at all
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
im afraid you have that one wrong.

Our position still is that Christ returned in 1914. That year marked the end of the gentile times and its the year that Christ began to rule from his heavenly position. The Jw's have never thought that his return was going to be physical.

This is what you believe now.


“We see no reason for changing the figures—nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God’s dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.”

http://www.4jehovah.org/downloads/jehovahs_witness/prophecy/time_is_at_hand-1911ed-p101.pdf

“…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1915 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.”

http://www.4jehovah.org/downloads/jehovahs_witness/prophecy/time_is_at_hand-1915ed-p101.pdf


You guys prodicted the end in 1914. This is one of the main beliefs of your faith in the 1800's. After time and againof being wrong changed it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
in the end it comes down to what is the accepted christian standard.
The "accepted Christian Standard" is that Christians don't follow the holiness codes anymore. The injunction against homosexuality is part of that code.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I would think that most Christians claim to follow the Bible, and I have shown many times that the gay basher verses don't actually apply to gay people, so for some Christians to continue in being against gays after that it just shows they are hateful.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The "accepted Christian Standard" is that Christians don't follow the holiness codes anymore. The injunction against homosexuality is part of that code.

i agree that many dont follow the christian standard...but i know for a fact that my church does.
 

McBell

Unbound
..but i know for a fact that my church does.
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