How can any true Christian not accept a gay Bishop?

[budha3]

What does being gay have to do with the way you feel about God. Sex is physical, God is spiritual. Being gay is no different than having a fetish. All a fetish is, is your preference for sex. As far as I know, everyone has some type of fetish or another

 

[McBell]

the scriptures do not make any distinction between one sin being worse then another

Well, other than the punishments that are to be dealt out according to the sin...
Some people might be inclined to say that death is a much harsher punishment than a fine.

...homosexuality is as much as sin as adultery or fornication on the part of hetrosexuals.... its as much a sin as being a drunkard or reviler or thief or murderer.... God views sin as sin whatever form it takes which is why they are all barred from entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Then why all the various punishments?

 

[McBell]

What does being gay have to do with the way you feel about God. Sex is physical, God is spiritual. Being gay is no different than having a fetish. All a fetish is, is your preference for sex. As far as I know, everyone has some type of fetish or another

Yes, most of the world is Christian....

 

[Pegg]

Well, other than the punishments that are to be dealt out according to the sin...
Some people might be inclined to say that death is a much harsher punishment than a fine.


Then why all the various punishments?

i think you are talking about the mosaic law, yes?

Im not a follower of Judaism...im a christian and christians were released from the observance of the punishments and penalties as prescribed under the mosaic law.
Christians could request forgiveness based on Jesus sacrifice whereas the Jews requested forgiveness based on the penalties prescribed under the mosaic law. But for some sins, death was the prescribed penalty under that law...these included, not only homosexuality but also murder and bestiality for instance.

Some sins were considered worse then others just as our legal system considers some crimes worse then others. But the fact is that under Christ, no one had to be dealt the prescribed penalties of the mosaic law...they could have their sins blotted out by Jesus blood sacrifice which is why some christians were at one time homosexuals but had changed their way of life.

 

[TEXASBULL]

i think you are talking about the mosaic law, yes?

Im not a follower of Judaism...im a christian and christians were released from the observance of the punishments and penalties as prescribed under the mosaic law.
Christians could request forgiveness based on Jesus sacrifice whereas the Jews requested forgiveness based on the penalties prescribed under the mosaic law. But for some sins, death was the prescribed penalty under that law...these included, not only homosexuality but also murder and bestiality for instance.

Some sins were considered worse then others just as our legal system considers some crimes worse then others. But the fact is that under Christ, no one had to be dealt the prescribed penalties of the mosaic law...they could have their sins blotted out by Jesus blood sacrifice which is why some christians were at one time homosexuals but had changed their way of life.

there were homosexuals in the bible who changed their way of life?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Pegg oh dear Lord, now you're reaching. Judaism knows that not all laws are relevant to today's world. I suggest Rabbi Wolpe's lectures for more info.

 

[Pegg]

This reminds of someone who asked Jesus "Then, who can be saved" and Jesus replied "what is impossible for man is possible for God". Do you have an idea of what that means? In my view, that means that no one could be saved unless God wills it. God must will it, then. And I know what JWs teach, I nearly became one after studying with them for almost two years.

yes, it means that mankind on their own could not possibly be saved from the condition of sin and death because we are born with it and the only way to be free of sin is to die.

However, mankind can become free of sin and death because 'with God all things are possible' as Jesus said.
It was God who made the provision available to us and if we take advantage of that provision (Jesus sacrifice) then we dont need to die in order to be free of sin.

 

[Pegg]

there were homosexuals in the bible who changed their way of life?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God"

The christians Paul was speaking to were people who came from the nations who practiced all sorts of 'unrighteousness' including homosexuality.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God"

The christians Paul was speaking to were people who came from the nations who practiced all sorts of 'unrighteousness' including homosexuality.

The problem being that most modern translations based on the soundest Greek scholarship render that part about men lying with men as "boy prostitutes" referring to the Roman practice of young male consorts and not homosexuality in general. But I know you as a JW reject everything except the NWT, the worst translation next to the KJV.

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

That still brings us back to christian gays being forced to be alone to be accepted.

 

[McBell]

i think you are talking about the mosaic law, yes?

Im not a follower of Judaism...im a christian and christians were released from the observance of the punishments and penalties as prescribed under the mosaic law.
Christians could request forgiveness based on Jesus sacrifice whereas the Jews requested forgiveness based on the penalties prescribed under the mosaic law. But for some sins, death was the prescribed penalty under that law...these included, not only homosexuality but also murder and bestiality for instance.

Some sins were considered worse then others just as our legal system considers some crimes worse then others. But the fact is that under Christ, no one had to be dealt the prescribed penalties of the mosaic law...they could have their sins blotted out by Jesus blood sacrifice which is why some christians were at one time homosexuals but had changed their way of life.

ah, so it is your position that God changed his mind?

 

[Pegg]

ah, so it is your position that God changed his mind?

it was always a part of his plan. The mosaic law was put in place to teach mankind that they needed the Messiah. But it was not Gods intention to keep it around forever. Through Jeremiah he told us this:
Jeremiah 31:31 “Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.” 33 “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it....34 “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”"

Much Later, the Christians spoke about Gods new covenant Hebrews 10:15 "Moreover, the holy spirit also bears witness to us, for after it has said: 16 “‘This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,’” 17 [it says afterwards:] “And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore. 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.”

The new covenant was a means of forgiveness for sin. Its based on Jesus sacrifice for he told his disciples that it was by his blood that the new covenant would come into effect: Matt 26:28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins..."

And the aspect of the prophecy of Jeremiah that says 'in their heart i shall write my law' comes into play by people willingly accepting to live by Gods laws. When they do that they do not need a law code to abide by because they willingly adopt Gods standards and make them a part of their life.

 

[McBell]

it was always a part of his plan. The mosaic law was put in place to teach mankind that they needed the Messiah. But it was not Gods intention to keep it around forever. Through Jeremiah he told us this:
Jeremiah 31:31 “Look! There are days coming,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 32 not one like the covenant that I concluded with their forefathers in the day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, ‘which covenant of mine they themselves broke, although I myself had husbandly ownership of them,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.” 33 “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it....34 “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”"

Much Later, the Christians spoke about Gods new covenant Hebrews 10:15 "Moreover, the holy spirit also bears witness to us, for after it has said: 16 “‘This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,’” 17 [it says afterwards:] “And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore. 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.”

The new covenant was a means of forgiveness for sin. Its based on Jesus sacrifice for he told his disciples that it was by his blood that the new covenant would come into effect: Matt 26:28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins..."

And the aspect of the prophecy of Jeremiah that says 'in their heart i shall write my law' comes into play by people willingly accepting to live by Gods laws. When they do that they do not need a law code to abide by because they willingly adopt Gods standards and make them a part of their life.

Good god man!!!
A simple "yes" would have been fine.

 

[Pegg]

Good god man!!!
A simple "yes" would have been fine.

Yes sir.

 

[luvuyesua]

:cover::areyoucra:sorry1::no:These are reactions that a family or parents or society have toward homosexuality.
why after all this time is it still asking the same question, why cant we be accepted and given the same respect as a heterosexual?
Gay is used as an insult in many cases?
people that I know that have said they are open minded and see nothing wrong with it, they have been the first to be insulted when called lesbian or gay.
and the person accusing them of it says it with bad intention,
you cant do that calling someone heterosexual, it is not an insult, it is nature.
does it sound like it is blessed?
and you know the word the bible uses for how God feels about same sex the word is abhored, on the same pages where it is written one must not sleep with their mother.(incest) but I feel you know that, I love free will and that is where homosexuality belongs, but to try and jam it down ones throat with publicity, I am yet to see a commercial of trojan condoms and two men holding it. I have had great friends in my life like Ruth, and when my mom wanted to do me harm in the courts for a matter she wanted to be evil about, she said me and my inseperable best friend were together as lesbians, I found out than that such a thing existed, and the courts at 13 forbid me to see her, what an influence that insult had.

Bishop , well, if he helps people come to God, and forget the publicity, and explaining anything about homosexuality being normal, than he is atleast respecting, they way gays want to be respected. if one decides or is born homosexual, and lives on it that is free will, but to think that it is something blessed, than it is the gay not excepting Gods opinion.

 

[sojourner]

Anna sure it makes sense. Romans 1 says they changed the natural use into that against nature. That can't apply to gay people, because being gay is their nature.

The problem is that ancient folk had no concept of sexual orientation. Unfortunately, you can't make the argument you're trying to make. The Pauline injunction more likely had to do with the taking of young boys by older men.

 

[sojourner]

if you are calling the Mosaic Law the 'holiness code' then no, we are not obliged to live by that code any longer... but that is certainly not to say that immoral sexual activity was ok in the christian congregation.

Christians knew they did not have to abide by the Mosaic law, but they knew they still needed to abide by Gods standards of holiness.

2 Corinthians 7:1 "Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear"

what are the defilement's according to the Apostle Paul?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God"

all of the above bolded acts constitute a defiling of the flesh...to be accepted by God one must renounce such things, as those christians had done whom Paul addressed these words to.

Again, more likely (since Corinth was a Greek city), Paul was addressing the particular Greek cultural practice of older men taking younger boys. And yes, that is an immoral practice. It has nothing to do with monogamous, same-sex, adult, consensual relationships.

 

[sojourner]

i think you are talking about the mosaic law, yes?

Im not a follower of Judaism...im a christian and christians were released from the observance of the punishments and penalties as prescribed under the mosaic law.
Christians could request forgiveness based on Jesus sacrifice whereas the Jews requested forgiveness based on the penalties prescribed under the mosaic law. But for some sins, death was the prescribed penalty under that law...these included, not only homosexuality but also murder and bestiality for instance.

Some sins were considered worse then others just as our legal system considers some crimes worse then others. But the fact is that under Christ, no one had to be dealt the prescribed penalties of the mosaic law...they could have their sins blotted out by Jesus blood sacrifice which is why some christians were at one time homosexuals but had changed their way of life.

so you're dismissing the great preponderance of the NT message of including the outcast, lifting up the downtrodden and hospitality to the stranger; you're glossing over the entire gospel of Matthew, who insists that we are to make outsiders, insiders -- and all because you're hanging up over, literally, two passages from Paul???

 

[Pegg]

Again, more likely (since Corinth was a Greek city), Paul was addressing the particular Greek cultural practice of older men taking younger boys. And yes, that is an immoral practice. It has nothing to do with monogamous, same-sex, adult, consensual relationships.

in that verse Paul uses the word 'fornicators'

The Greek word being por‧nei′a
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament defines por‧nei′a as “prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.”

and interestingly our english word 'porn' (as in pornography) comes from porneia. So Paul is speaking about ALL kinds of sexual immorality which is what I have been maintaining throughout this entire thread. The bible does not focus only on homosexuality....the bible is obviously far different from the church's of christendom in that regard.

 

[Autodidact]

in that verse Paul uses the word 'fornicators'

The Greek word being por‧nei′a
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament defines por‧nei′a as “prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.”

and interestingly our english word 'porn' (as in pornography) comes from porneia. So Paul is speaking about ALL kinds of sexual immorality which is what I have been maintaining throughout this entire thread. The bible does not focus only on homosexuality....the bible is obviously far different from the church's of christendom in that regard.

Once again, you're arguing that it's fornication because it's wrong, and it's wrong because it's fornication.