How can anyone ever deserve eternal punishment?

[S-word]

There's obviously rocks with life on them, since we live on one. But, most of them are just floating rocks. The Earth is just one example of things developing within a certain system. And to show life and what not developing, we have abiogenesis, evolution, etc. But, we have only seen how life has come to be and evolve on Earth; not any other planet yet. Science is still advancing and improving. Perhaps we'll have the answers to more questions some day. So, there's obviously life in the universe, but that does not make the universe itself a living thing. Not saying we came from nothing, but through scientific processes. What made the universe a living, conscious entity then? Did the cosmos become this conscious entity from nothing?

I did have to post an out of the ordinary example. If it were a common example, like being told that someone stole your car, that wouldn't be too much for a voice of that power. Telling you something extremely specific, such as an example like that, would be vastly more proof for the existence of said light bringer. Even if you don't particularly like it, you don't have to cry about it. Suck it up, answer the question, and be done. It's almost as petty as whining about doing nothing but whining about a minor character in a movie. Too bad if someone doesn't ask a question in the exact way that you like.

Quote...StripperClown.....The Earth is just one example of things developing within a certain system. And to show life and what not developing, we have abiogenesis, evolution, etc. But, we have only seen how life has come to be and evolve on Earth; not any other planet yet. Science is still advancing and improving. Perhaps we'll have the answers to more questions some day.

Well I for one do not wish to wait for another 6,000 years, for our scientific friends to prove all that there is to be known about the living Cosmos, nor am I so naive as to accept (Simply because it cannot be proven otherwise) that this little planet earth which is less than a speck of fly droppings in an insignificant solar system within the Milky Way Galaxy, which is but one of billions within this cluster of galaxies which are falling in toward one of the uncountable massive Black Holes that exist out there in the vastness of inter-stella space, is the only planet in the entire Cosmos, to have developed life, just because you can't prove it to me.

Quote...StripperClown...Did the cosmos become this conscious entity from nothing?

Why do you bother to even ask such a question? Do you think for one moment that all that exists in the boundless Cosmos was once nothing, the facts are, the Cosmos, which is all that is, has developed life within itself, without the aid of man or any outside influence, it just grew from something which keeps on growing, and the life that it developed, has developed within itself, an intellect capable of comprehending the 'I AM' that it is.

Quote...StripperClown...I did have to post an out of the ordinary example.

You did not! You only had to ask, and as much as I don't wish to play your silly childish game, I will answer you and give to you one example of many, where I have been warned of impending danger, simply to stop you running around with your "nah-nanah nah nahhhh, I beat you cos you can't answer me, nah nana nah nahhhh."

I live 30 miles out of town on a rural block, and for the last ten years before I retired, each working day I would drive into town to my place of employment, on one such occassion, I was overcome with feelings of Danger. Thinking that perhaps I may have unconsciously felt a wheel wooble or something, I pulled over to the side of the road and after assuring myself that there were no loose wheel nuts or collapsed wheel bearing, and finding no fault with the front suspension, I carried on, only to find that about 5 miles ahead at a notorious intersection, there has been a horrific car pile up involving a semi-trailer and other cars, one of which was beyond recognition, the police and ambulances with their body bags had not yet arrived at the scene. After calculating the distance from where I pulled over and the speed that I always travel at, I would have been involved in that pile up had I not been warned of some impending danger.

This of course has been an exercise in futility, as you will undoubtedly claim that this was all coincidental, or that I knew that there was a notorious intersection up ahead, ignoring the fact that I had driven this same route over many years, and until that particular day, I had never had cause to pull over for any reason. Other wise you would have to admit that there may be truth in what I have said, something that I very much doubt that you would do.

How many thousands upon thousands of people do you suppose have experienced the same warning guidance? How many people who fly, week in and week out, year after year, who, having purchased their ticket, and while walking to the departure lounge are overcome with panic, for no apparent reason. Knowing that they have to attend an important business meeting that afternoon, they attempt to quell the panic attack, but are eventually forced to return their ticket, only to hear on the later news, that flight 748, apparently suffered engine failure moments after takeoff, crashing and killing all on board.

You will believe what you will believe, but you will never convince these people nor myself, that there is not a greater consciouncness within these bodies in which we, the godheads to these bodies are developing as heirs to the throne of that enclosure of ancestral spirits who have all paid the death penality (The blood price) for any mistakes that they may have made in their physical life on earth.---Now, let this be the end of it.

 

[ayani]

May I respectfully ask how you know it's a reality?

well, as a Christian, i believe Jesus of Nazareth to be of God, and from God- to be His unique Son, who speaks what is true about God and about the reality of things, by virtue of Who He is.

i believe that the Gospel accounts (Matthew-John) of Jesus' life and ministry record what is factual about His teachings and doings. within these accounts, Jesus mentions hell. He mentions clearly that those who are sinful, sans compassion, hateful, who misuse others and who misuse what they have been given, will receive what they have earned for themselves in the life to come. this involves suffering / punishment for their misspent, mismanaged lives.

that does not mean that we will be judged for circumstances beyond our control- a person who never has the opportunity to go to school will not be judged for never becoming a free-lance lawyer who represents the voiceless. but what it does mean is that God holds us responsible for how we use the gift of life He's given us, and how we care for one another. He knows our abilities, our limits, our weaknesses, our strengths. He knows how much we fathom concerning what is right and wrong.

ultimately, His righteousness and judgment are the final call. does everyone see things from His perspective? no. does everyone agree that what the Bible says is righteous / unrighteous reflects reality? no. yet what remains true is that God is Someone- not simply an abstract, all-encompassing Being to be merged with / understood. Jesus calls Him Father, and through this unique Man, we get to know Him personally. yes, in Him, there are clear standards which not everyone will agree with.

and there are many ways which *seem* right to us, but which ultimately lead to ruin, and farther rather than closer to the God who has given us life.

 

[HoldemDB9]

well, as a Christian, i believe Jesus of Nazareth to be of God, and from God- to be His unique Son, who speaks what is true about God and about the reality of things, by virtue of Who He is.

i believe that the Gospel accounts (Matthew-John) of Jesus' life and ministry record what is factual about His teachings and doings. within these accounts, Jesus mentions hell. He mentions clearly that those who are sinful, sans compassion, hateful, who misuse others and who misuse what they have been given, will receive what they have earned for themselves in the life to come. this involves suffering / punishment for their misspent, mismanaged lives.

that does not mean that we will be judged for circumstances beyond our control- a person who never has the opportunity to go to school will not be judged for never becoming a free-lance lawyer who represents the voiceless. but what it does mean is that God holds us responsible for how we use the gift of life He's given us, and how we care for one another. He knows our abilities, our limits, our weaknesses, our strengths. He knows how much we fathom concerning what is right and wrong.

ultimately, His righteousness and judgment are the final call. does everyone see things from His perspective? no. does everyone agree that what the Bible says is righteous / unrighteous reflects reality? no. yet what remains true is that God is Someone- not simply an abstract, all-encompassing Being to be merged with / understood. Jesus calls Him Father, and through this unique Man, we get to know Him personally. yes, in Him, there are clear standards which not everyone will agree with.

and there are many ways which *seem* right to us, but which ultimately lead to ruin, and farther rather than closer to the God who has given us life.

Shame that the majority of Christians Ive spoke with believe that God will punish us for things beyond our control. Ive got to say though, from what Ive seen most Christians on this forum don't believe this nonsense.

People like you give Christianity a good name for a change.

 

[roli]

Each religion has their own offenses against God. Which one is correct and why? So, God, this all powerful being allows people to go to Hell because they didn't believe in him, or maybe not in the right way, even though we as beings would be even lower than ants compared to him?

There is such a misconception by those who speak about God, yet don't actually know anything about who God is and what his intentions are for them or mankind in general. He is made out to have some insatiable egotistical desire to have people believe in him for the mere fact of just believeing in him. It's so typical for some people to make such presumptuous remarks regarding God's nature,actions, and behavior. It seems to appear it's more of an emotional and seemingly vindictive comment than one of validity.I don't think people who make assertions of God have thought this out much further than their emotions.

Does God feed on our belief? Is that what fuels God's power? Does a being that powerful need the validation of creatures as lowly as ourselves?

I don't believe so, but maybe it's a means to appease the guilty conscience and such perspectives only seem to reinforce and justify themselves.
I mean think about, if I can hurl some insults and inaccurate unfounded statements about someone,something or even God, it would make me feel I have the upper hand and am somewhat justified. If I am condecending and tend to demean people, or God for that matter, I only position myself on some higher plain.

Is he really so malevolent that he would create a place for us to suffer for eternity because he was not worshiped or acknowledged in the right way?

He did'nt create "hell" for man to suffer,it was prepared for the devil and His angels.Men make there beds in this life and most lie in it, so it is if man refuses to accept God';s gift in the next life.
He did make a way of escape.
I never hear those people who accuse God of atrocious acts and behavios speak of or even wonder if God made a plan to spare us.
Such assertions without considering or undersstanding the plan of eternal salvation that he has provided to spare man from this eternal place of"separation "from God, is first, "ignorant" and "arrogant" on man's behalf.
Man chooses to separate themselves from God in this life and adhere to their sensual feelings, emotions and carnal pleasures and expressing them without restraint or accountability.

Would he really be brazen enough to claim that we are being "saved" and that we should praise God for saving us from what is essentially himself? You don't thank the guy with the gun to your head for not shooting you, unless, of course, it's out of fear.

You obviously don';t have the slightest comprehension of what God's intentions are but choose to express your speculation and irrational, irrefutable logic, as if it has some validity.I beg to differ!!!

A true God would be able to look at each person. He could look at their thoughts, souls, hearts, mind, and everything.

He does look into the hearts and minds of man,that's how he brings justice, blessing and judgement, now, in this life and when we stand before him. According to his word!!

He would work in a loving way to help heal whatever needs to be healed without having anyone suffer for eternity. A true God would look at an atheist and go "I know you didn't believe I was here, but I can see why. It is good to truly reveal myself to you, and shed my light upon your eyes."

Every opportunity will have been given!!!!

Nobody "wanted" a life separated from God. If atheists, agnostics, whatever believed in God, they would believe in God. You just want people to believe in your idea of God

Your right , nobody wanted it, but sin brought and God made a way to reconcile man to God. We believe the word of God and in what the Holy Spirit revelas and confirms to us. How he chooses to do that is up to him!!

 

[roli]

Shame that the majority of Christians Ive spoke with believe that God will punish us for things beyond our control. Ive got to say though, from what Ive seen most Christians on this forum don't believe this nonsense.

People like you give Christianity a good name for a change.

"Beyond our control" are you playing semantics here.
Things that are out of our control, God sovereignly by his mercy accepts what is out of our control and deals with us accordingly.
Sin is our nature, it's what we do,our nature is to sin,... lying ,stealing,coveting, hating, taking God's name in vain are no accidents, they come from the heart of man which he says is wicked and deceitful above all things.
When men come to God, he takes away that heart of stone and gives them a new heart and they begin to take on his nature.
It's a supernatural occurence that can only be personally experinced.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

I would like to reply to the OP but I feel it necessary to make it perfectly clear that I am a son of Sinai. I am a Sinaiticist and a believer and practitioner of Sinaiticism and use canonized biblical scripture which is searched through and corrected by way of the Hebrew language using the correct context, tenor and meaning of the true word of Yah. This is my belief and is not up for debate. Though I respect the understandings and beliefs of others, and as I do not intend any offence to anyone, I do not acknowledge nor agree with them as the overall truth. I will reply to the OP as to the beliefs of Sinaiticism. You may choose to agree or disagree with Sinaiticism which is, of course, your prerogative.

I mean, even Hitler does not deserve

What he deserves, as anyone, is not up to anyone’s judgment but one who has that power and authority which namely is the one whom created him. Yah.

to be punished forever,

He, nor anyone, will reap eternal punishment. If one is found to be worthy to die the second death, because of iniquity, then they will be cast into the lake of fire and be consumed and be as if they never existed. They will cease to exist. Poof-gone.

there has to be a point where he has paid for what he did.

There is. That point is decided by the one with the power and authority to do so. Again that lies with the one holding all the cards. Yah.

The same is true for eternal bliss, what on earth can somebody ever do that deserves to have eternal bliss?

These verse’s tells it pretty much like it is…………

Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, Yah. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.

Just think if someone is going to go to Hell,

The term “hell” as used in the scripture only means the grave hence we will all go to hell. Now whether you are going in a hand basket or not is totally up to your own belief.

another person could be 1,000,000 times worse but still get the exact same punishment, how is that fair?

Lol. It’s kinda like grade school huh? Remember when one would mess up and end up messing it up for the whole class like little Johnny got up without asking permission and now the whole class forfeits recess.
No, but seriously, Everyone is accounted as to what he or she has done and why they chose to do what they did. Those that are found in ignorance of the law cannot, and will not, be punished for not knowing the law until they learn the law…………

Num 15:26 and all the congregation of the children of Yisra'el shall be forgiven, and the stranger who lives as a foreigner among them; for in respect of all the people it was done unwittingly.

There’s allot more to this but see most of it has to do with sacrifice and since Yahshua Ha Mashiach came and died for all our past sins and is now perpetuating on our behalf, he covers us as the priest used to for those things done in ignorance.

In any case, There are sins unto to death and sins that are not unto death. Most of these are explained in Torah. At the end there are 3 books that will be opened. The book of remembrance which is a recording of all things that you have said and done as well as every thought. The Torah which is the laws we all are required to follow and obey. And the book of life which we are all in at the beginning and we spend the rest of our mortal lives trying to stay in it. Those who are found worthy and are of the anointed (Yahshua) will enjoy the first resurrection and will not have to face the judgment. Those that are not will all be raised before the mercy seat of Elohim at the second resurrection where the scales of justice will be weighed as to the witness of the book of remembrance, as inscribed by the malach (angel) that was assigned to you for that purpose, and the book of the Torah. There if the scales fall to the side of righteousness then you will be rewarded accordingly but if it falls to the side of unrighteousness then you will be rewarded also accordingly.

One who ask questions as to the way things are, pertaining to Yah, need to be very careful if they are not ready to make that life changing decision because with knowledge comes responsibility and that responsibility is to make the choice as to adhere to the knowledge that you have acquired or not. This is a very important decision in which you make. Being told that the way to eternal life is to serve and obey the commands of Yah and also the way of death is not to serve and obey the commands of Yah is giving you knowledge. The wisdom is the maturity of doing it and the understanding that comes along with it shows that you have met the many challenges you will face in doing it. I submit further………………..

Deu 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse:
Deu 11:27 the blessing, if you shall listen to the commandments of YAH your Elohim, which I command you this day;
Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you shall not listen to the commandments of YAH your Elohim, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other elohims, which you have not known.

Rom 6:16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?

You now have the knowledge that when we are born and become aware of good and evil, right and wrong, life and death that we have before us a blessing as well as a curse. And you are also now made awares to the fact that one can choose to continue in sin all the way to their death or they may choose life and free themselves from the chains of death through righteousness. Also we see that the righteous rest in this knowledge……………

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of Elohim, and the faith of Yahshua."

Remember that sin is disobedience to the commands of Yah and the judgment of which may be death. If you choose to live then obey but if you choose death then continue in disobedience.

There is the knowledge. The $1,000,000.00 question is whether the one that now has the knowledge continue to perform the wisdom through becoming mature and transformed in the true word of Yah which will allow them to acquire the understanding and freedom awarded to those who serve and obey?

Shalom aleichem to all that serve and obey.

 

[S-word]

well, as a Christian, i believe Jesus of Nazareth to be of God, and from God- to be His unique Son, who speaks what is true about God and about the reality of things, by virtue of Who He is.

i believe that the Gospel accounts (Matthew-John) of Jesus' life and ministry record what is factual about His teachings and doings. within these accounts, Jesus mentions hell. He mentions clearly that those who are sinful, sans compassion, hateful, who misuse others and who misuse what they have been given, will receive what they have earned for themselves in the life to come. this involves suffering / punishment for their misspent, mismanaged lives.

that does not mean that we will be judged for circumstances beyond our control- a person who never has the opportunity to go to school will not be judged for never becoming a free-lance lawyer who represents the voiceless. but what it does mean is that God holds us responsible for how we use the gift of life He's given us, and how we care for one another. He knows our abilities, our limits, our weaknesses, our strengths. He knows how much we fathom concerning what is right and wrong.

ultimately, His righteousness and judgment are the final call. does everyone see things from His perspective? no. does everyone agree that what the Bible says is righteous / unrighteous reflects reality? no. yet what remains true is that God is Someone- not simply an abstract, all-encompassing Being to be merged with / understood. Jesus calls Him Father, and through this unique Man, we get to know Him personally. yes, in Him, there are clear standards which not everyone will agree with.

and there are many ways which *seem* right to us, but which ultimately lead to ruin, and farther rather than closer to the God who has given us life.

You have said that He, 'Jesus,' "mentions clearly that those who are sinful, sans compassion, hateful, who misuse others and who misuse what they have been given, will receive what they have earned for themselves in the life to come. this involves suffering / punishment for their misspent, mismanaged lives," but you have failed to answer the question, does that punishment endure for eternity?.

We hear all the different Christians who belong to all the different denominations with all with their different versions of what Scripture has to say, which denominations all were spawned from the teachings of their mother body, the universal (Catholic) church, who calls herself the bride of Christ, all claiming that they have the truth as revealed in Scripture; when in fact, the faith of all those different bodies, is not in that which Scripture has to say, but their faith has been placed in the interpretation of Scripture by men who cannot agree on what the Scriptures actually reveal, and as their faith is based on the original error that Jesus did not come as a human being born of human parents as all human beings are, but was born of the union of a virgin mortal human mother and an immortal non-human Father who had created the entire Cosmos, then the original error is simply compounded in all their interpretations.

When someone tells me that they've had physical contact with aliens, I will accept that they believe that was the case, and whether a Christian tells me that the death of the anointed one was the ransom blood for the sins of all mankind, or that it is only the righteous who are saved, and the sinners who are not saved by the righteous blood die the never ending death, to be no more, or that they suffer for eternity in the fires of hell which can never be extinguished, I accept that they believe it. But as for myself, I will believe what the spirit has revealed as to the truth in scripture, and not the interpretations of men who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being and was chosen as the first fruits, the first of many brothers who are to be redeemed from the body of mankind, before everything upon this earth is incinerated.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You have said that He, 'Jesus,' "mentions clearly that those who are sinful, sans compassion, hateful, who misuse others and who misuse what they have been given, will receive what they have earned for themselves in the life to come. this involves suffering / punishment for their misspent, mismanaged lives," but you have failed to answer the question, does that punishment endure for eternity?.

It doesn't necessarily matter. An eternity in Hell would be an infinite punishment, but so would being barred from eternal life in Heaven.

 

[S-word]

It doesn't necessarily matter. An eternity in Hell would be an infinite punishment, but so would being barred from eternal life in Heaven.

As I believe that hell is merely the grave into which all mankind must descend, except for those who are to be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible Matter, into the incorruptible glorious bodies of brilliant blinding light, I neither believe in the concept of heaven and hell as put forward by the universal church, and all her daughter bodies.

For the Kingdom of God is within you: You are the tabernacle, or tent of God on earth, I wait for the Kingdom that has been promised to me by the eternal evolving mind of swirling wave particles that our sences perceive as the living Cosmos, the new Kingdom of God on earth, the new creation which flesh and blood cannot inherit, the new being of light which will gain dominion over all life forms that have developed within the Cosmos, the creation that is formed from the body of mankind of which creation, the man Jesus was the first fruits and the cornerstone to the New Temple of God which is to to dwell on earth among mankind. And yes, I suppose it will be hell on earth for all those who finally understand how they had been deceived and had failed to strive for the glory that is the Godhead, and know that they have been forever locked out.

 

[AK4]

I neither believe in the concept of heaven and hell as put forward by the universal church, and all her daughter bodies.

You are on the right track, but the catholic church didnt start this. SHE has a mother and she is just a daughter herself.

Actually the whole concept of hell and the immortal soul started in egypt. The israelites, as you know, spent hundreds of years down there getting indoctrinated with their beliefs.

But the first actually church of God was the Israelites when they entered the Land. This is MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS. The christain churches are just daughters of their mother, Judaism.

and you can easily see in the OT of them being the mother of harlots, Here and excerpt

How do the Rabbis and Orthodox Jews view GeHinnom/Gehenna? Are their traditions different from Christians seeing that they place no real authority on the New Testament Scriptures? Their view is a bit foggy, but let's look at it.

RABBINIC DOGMA, TRADITION, AND FABLES ON GEHENNA​

"Needless to say the rubbish dumps of Christ's day were a far cry from the sanitary landfills we engineer today. Gehenna was an open pit, infested with rats and reeking with decaying food and human excrement. The bodies of executed criminals and other undesirables were also dumped there. When the pestilence that fed on the dump began getting out of hand, the entire thing was set on fire. But even the fires of Gehenna didn't purify - they sent billows of reeking smoke ​

​

over the entire city, spreading disease and death." (Kaufman Koehler).
"Gehinom (Gehenna), according to rabbinic literature, is a place or state where the wicked are temporarily punished after death. The godly, meanwhile, await Judgment Day in the bosom of Abraham." Gehenna" is sometimes translated as "hell," but the Christian view of hell differs from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Most sinners are said to suffer in Gehenna no longer than twelve months, but those who commit certain sins are punished forever."
"The Rabbis saw Gehenna as a place of punishment for a person who did not live a righteous life, as defined by G-d and Torah for Jews, or the seven laws of Noah for non-Jews. The majority view of the Rabbis is that punishment in Gehenna is of limited duration. The maximum punishment was believed to be 12 months. The Talmud says in tractate "Shabbat" page 33b that 'The duration of punishment in Gehenna is twelve months.' This is also stated in both early and late rabbinical literature (ie, texts of the Rabbis of the Talmud). This 12 month limit is true for both Jewish and Gentile sinners ("Rosh HaShanah" 17a). This is true even of the generation of the flood, who were said to be very wicked. (Mishneh, Eduyyot 2:10; Genesis Rabbah 28:8). Though some individual Rabbis (a minority) expressed the view that certain sinners stayed in Gehenna forever, it was not the majority, accepted view."
"During the twelve-month period in Gehenna, the soul goes through a process of purification and atonement, and, as described in Midrash Pesikta Rabbati, 'After going down to Gehenna and receiving the punishment due him, the sinner is forgiven from all his iniquities, like an arrow from the bow he is flung forth from Gehenna' (Pesikta Rabbati 53:2). After this experience, the soul is sufficiently purified and able to enter the supernal postmortem realm of Gan Eden, the Garden of Eden (Exodus Rabbah 7:4)" (Raphael, Jewish Views of the Afterlife, p145).
"There is a minority opinion (in the Talmud) that holds that some people go to Gehenna (Purgatory is the Christian equivalent, not Hell) for ever. The majority of rabbis in the Talmud reject this view. So, while there may be a non-binding aggada (story) to illustrate a point of some kind (the wickedness of Balak, for example), it is just a story and does not reflect Jewish belief in the afterlife or in the duration of punishment in Gehenna."
"I don't have to ask any Orthodox Jew, since I have a book on Jewish views of the afterlife. You may believe Balak is in "Hell" forever, but it does not make it a Jewish belief. [note: DS is not Jewish] You may believe that Orthodox Jews believe that some people go to "Hell" forever, but that does not make it so. I have looked in 3 Orthodox commentaries on Balak, none of them mention "Hell" or even eternal Gehenna for Balak. As I said in one of my other 2 e-mails, there MAY be a legend about Balak being in Gehenna forever, but like all Aggada (stories) or Midrash, it is not to be taken as the literal truth. That is not just my opinion, it is the official position of Judaism of the Orthodox variety on aggada and middrash."
"I remind you, that a Midrash is non-binding and usually is written to teach a lesson, or to encourage certain behavior (such as the desirability of not committing adultery, perjury, or blaming a neighbor in public). It is not intended to be the literal truth in any way. As you can see, the majority of Medieval Jewish Rabbis did NOT believe that "Hell" was forever. That view was a minority view." (From: The Jewish View of Gehenna based on Jewish Views of the Afterlife by Simcha Paul Raphael).
​

 

[S-word]

Quote Ak4...But the first actually church of God was the Israelites when they entered the Land. This is MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS. The christain churches are just daughters of their mother, Judaism.

Thank you my young friend, but I know, understand and am fully aware of everything that you have put forward in your post. We could even go back and say that Eve was the mother of the first religious concepts, and her female daughters were Israel and Judah the two harlots as spoken of in the Old Testament, but it is their female descendant who is mentioned in Revelations, the one who sits upon the seven mountains that I was referring to. The one who holds a spiritual rulership over the temporal Kings of the earth, those King into who hearts the Lord will put the will to carry out his purpose and eat her flesh and burn her with fire. But thanks you again for the explaination of hell for those who are not already aware of the old funerary pratices of the Jews.

 

[AK4]

but it is their female descendant who is mentioned in Revelations, the one who sits upon the seven mountains that I was referring to. The one who holds a spiritual rulership over the temporal Kings of the earth, those King into who hearts the Lord will put the will to carry out his purpose and eat her flesh and burn her with fire. But thanks you again for the explaination of hell for those who are not already aware of the old funerary pratices of the Jews.

Yes, Its not the literal mountains though. the seven mountains physical Jerusalem is sitting on is the seven churches. This physical Jerusalem (judaism) is the one who first committed adultery, or as God put it, "spread her legs and refused at least some kind of payment for her whoredom" (paraphrased). And like their mother, the same thing has happened to christendom.

The reason it starts with physical Jerusalem is because they were the first to recieve the truth of God. The catholic church wasnt the first.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

as put forward by the universal church, and all her daughter bodies.

Oh now your just being nice mate.

Go on, Tell us how you truly feel about the woman on the seven hills with all her little kiddies.

 

[S-word]

Oh now your just being nice mate.

Go on, Tell us how you truly feel about the woman on the seven hills with all her little kiddies.

Get thee behind me satan, do you want to see me banned also. But this is what the Lord says to those developing spirits within her body.

Come out of her my people, do not share in her sins
You must not share her punishment, for her judgment day has come
Her sins are piled to heaven and God recalls her evil ways
She says "I am no widow, and I'll never see the grave,"
Because of that, in just one day, disease will strike her down
And plagues and famine she'll receive, til finally she'll be burned
You must pay her back two-fold for all that she has done
Fill her cup as she filled yours, but make it twice as strong
For all the glory she has claimed, and all her luxury
Must be repaid this very day with pain and misery.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Get thee behind me satan, do you want to see me banned also. But this is what the Lord says to those developing spirits within her body.

Come out of her my people, do not share in her sins
You must not share her punishment, for her judgment day has come
Her sins are piled to heaven and God recalls her evil ways
She says "I am no widow, and I'll never see the grave,"
Because of that, in just one day, disease will strike her down
And plagues and famine she'll receive, til finally she'll be burned
You must pay her back two-fold for all that she has done
Fill her cup as she filled yours, but make it twice as strong
For all the glory she has claimed, and all her luxury
Must be repaid this very day with pain and misery.

I hear ya. I truly believe we hold the same feelings though on this subject brother.

 

[S-word]

Yes, Its not the literal mountains though. the seven mountains physical Jerusalem is sitting on is the seven churches. This physical Jerusalem (judaism) is the one who first committed adultery, or as God put it, "spread her legs and refused at least some kind of payment for her whoredom" (paraphrased). And like their mother, the same thing has happened to christendom.

The reason it starts with physical Jerusalem is because they were the first to recieve the truth of God. The catholic church wasnt the first.

Well, we’re all entitled to our own belief. But I cannot see Judaism as the famous prostitute, who sits on the seven mountains, which, as you say are symbolically the seven churches. Take a look at the seven churches which are all located in the province of Asia which is modern Turkey, (Not the country of Asia,) the meeting place of Mark Antony the lifelong friend of Herod the Great, and Cleopatra who bore to him the twins 'Cleopatra Selene the Mother of Phillip, and her brother Alaxandra Heli,' on the 25th December, 20 years before Cleopatra the young wife of Herod the Great gave birth to Phillip, who simply disappears from the pages of history in the year of 34 AD, shortly after the death of Jesus. No wonder the name "Cleophas," means 'of a renown father,' Cleophas=Alpheaus was the father of James the brother to the Lord, and the husband of Mary at the time of the death of her son Jesus, and the name Cleophas is an abbreviation of 'Cleopatros,' which is the masculine form of Cleopatra.

In 40 AD, John who was surnamed ‘Mark’ with Mary the Mother of Jesus, and Barnabus, who was Joseph the Levite from Cyprus, the son of Heli who was the father of Mary his half sister, travelled north to the province of Asia, this is Mary the mother of the Jesus as preached by the disciples, who mention nothing out of the ordinary in reference to his physical birth, in fact John and Mark completely ignore the physical birth and begin their story of the chosen heir to the throne of the Godhead, with the water baptism when Jesus was filled with the spirit of God and a voice was heard from heaven, which said,"you are my beloved in whom I am pleased, 'Today I have become your Father," See the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22.

But now, when I speak of the virgin Mary in reference to the Queen of the Seven Churches, I am not referring to Mary the obedient servant to her indwelling Lord, who did that which was commanded of her, and was the Mother of The Jesus who was preached by the disciples, but that fictitious virgin Mary who is the mother of another Jesus, who was a hybrid, and an invention of the deceivers who refused to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. That virgin Mary who replaced ‘Artemis’ as the most widely venerated goddess of the churches in that province, who is supposedly the Mother of the co-creator of the entire Cosmos, or so it is said by those who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Constantinople was the Capital of the Roman Empire, and the Roman church which became the universal church by clothing their old heavenly Queen and her god-child with the new garment called christianity, was governed by the Emperor, and the Patriarachs from Constantinople, Alexandria, Rome, Antioch etc. I defy any punter off the street, to identify the difference between the old Roman icons that were around in the early first century, of Isis and her god-child, and their new heavenly Queen and her god-child. Nah mate, John was not referring to Judaism as the famous prostitute, who sits on seven mountains.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I don't believe in any type of hell myself & ANY God that would condem someone to hell or a sepration of him/her for all of Eternity is not much of a Gos & is not all loving.

 

[S-word]

I don't believe in any type of hell myself & ANY God that would condem someone to hell or a sepration of him/her for all of Eternity is not much of a Gos & is not all loving.

See post 69, Mankind will not be seperated from the Godhead, for he will dwell on earth among mankind, but once the door to the kingdom of God on earth has been closed, no man will open it, for flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God on earth. Then they who are locked outside, will understand what hell is, but unlike those who may come and go from the kingdom of God, those outside will not have been given the lot of eternal life, so no, the punishment of falling short of the glory that is god on earth, does not last for an eternity.

 

[Riverwolf]

See post 69, Mankind will not be seperated from the Godhead, for he will dwell on earth among mankind, but once the door to the kingdom of God on earth has been closed, no man will open it, for flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God on earth. Then they who are locked outside, will understand what hell is, but unlike those who may come and go from the kingdom of God, those outside will not have been given the lot of eternal life, so no, the punishment of falling short of the glory that is god on earth, does not last for an eternity.

So we're screwed either way, I guess.

 

[S-word]

So we're screwed either way, I guess.

Not really, after this galactic cluster has been condensed into the 'Great Abyss,' as the infinitely dense and hot, infintisimally small primordial atom which was the origin of this universal body, which will be resurrected and rise from the depth of the bottomless pit, you too will eventually be resurrected, to walk once again for another 70 to 80 years in the light of life.