How can one be a Pagan Atheist?

[Noaidi]

I get my spirituality from Nature, but I am aware that the feelings I get from Nature are the result of neurones firing and creating an emotional response. I assume that these responses are just as intense and satisfying as those experienced by a religious person in church or involved in prayer. The difference is that I don’t need to superimpose an external, supernatural explanation to these feelings.

This is no way detracts from the experience but, because we currently lack the full knowledge of how these responses are generated, we use terms such as ‘spiritual’ or ‘transcendent’.

Lacking the words to explain events, beauty, emotions and so on has always been with us, hence the possible origins of the need to create an ‘explanatory force’ such as gods or spirits. The fact that we still can’t fully explain some phenomena is perhaps the reason why ‘gods’ will persist. A pagan atheist is someone who just doesn’t acknowledge the ‘god as an explanation’ part of the experience.

 

[S-word]

I am not sure you be.

Wouldn't buddhists be considered to be pagan atheists?

I am assuming that your question has been put to me, and I would ask you, what of Amida Buddha, who is believed to have created a pure land in the west? Millions of Buddhists in Japan pray to him as the Buddha of infinite light, like some Christian sects who believe that the only name by which they are saved, is the name of “Jesus,” to the Japanese Buddhists it is the name of Amida Buddha that saves them. Those who have faith and continually repeat Amida’s name in prayer will go to that glorious land, yet like many Christian sects, they believe that the kingdom is an invisible dimension that co-exists within this visible three dimensional world. In the Chinese tradition, to enter the pure land of Amitabha Buddha of infinite light, they must call on the name of Amitabah ten times at the point of death.

The Tibetan wheel of existence shows six realms of samsara. At the top there are the devas/gods in their heaven. To their right are the jealous gods who want to get in the top realm. At the bottom are the beings in a tormented state (hell.) Just above this is the realm of the hungry ghosts who are in a constant state of ravishing craving. The other two realms are the human and animal realms.

The Buddha may not have believed in God, but that doesn’t mean that the Buddhists of today do not believe in the existence of divine beings or gods. You will find throughout the Buddhist traditions that there is a mix of beliefs in supernatural beings and even the after life. The very fact that they believe in re-incarnation, means that something of the original essence of their being must survive the death of their bodies in order to be re-incarnated, other wise there could be no re-incarnation of who they were before they died the first death, which is that of thier physical body.

 

[S-word]

I get my spirituality from Nature, but I am aware that the feelings I get from Nature are the result of neurones firing and creating an emotional response. I assume that these responses are just as intense and satisfying as those experienced by a religious person in church or involved in prayer. The difference is that I don’t need to superimpose an external, supernatural explanation to these feelings.

This is no way detracts from the experience but, because we currently lack the full knowledge of how these responses are generated, we use terms such as ‘spiritual’ or ‘transcendent’.

Lacking the words to explain events, beauty, emotions and so on has always been with us, hence the possible origins of the need to create an ‘explanatory force’ such as gods or spirits. The fact that we still can’t fully explain some phenomena is perhaps the reason why ‘gods’ will persist. A pagan atheist is someone who just doesn’t acknowledge the ‘god as an explanation’ part of the experience.

There's a Ghost Gum out in the paddock
It stands there all alone
He's been there more'n a hundred years
Aint got the heart to bring him down
So tall and so majestic
A grander sight I doubt you'd see.

"What the hell are you flamin talkin 'bout?
Mate, it's only a bloody tree."

It's only a bloody tree you say
We'll I guess you could be right
And I'm not the sort of man what prays
But I reckon in God's sight,
That thing you call a bloody tree
Could be more important than you and me....By S-word

 

[Nanda]

I view all the supernatural aspects as facets of my own psyche, and use ritual as meditation to center myself. It helps me quietly look within and reconnect with the earth.

 

[S-word]

I view all the supernatural aspects as facets of my own psyche, and use ritual as meditation to center myself. It helps me quietly look within and reconnect with the earth.

You, who view all the supernatural aspects as facets of your own psyche, and use ritual as meditation to centre yourself, because It helps you quietly look within and reconnect with the earth, do not need to be reconnected to the earth, for earth you are and to the earth from which you were created, you will be returned.

You, should be looking within to see and understand the wishes of He, who was in the beginning and has become "Who You Are," by the gathering to itself of all the information taken in through the senses of the bodies of all your ancestors Human and pre-human that it, "The Alpha" had become in its evolution to become the "Omega."

Perhaps then you might be able to disconnect from this earth, the mind that is "You" who are developing within that body of universal elements, by the experiences and information that is being gathered through the senses of that body, from this visible three dimensional world that co-exists with the invisible fourth dimensional world, and then become one with "Who You Were," and "Who You will Be."

Through swirling waters deep and fast toward the birth of day
Through fleeting shadows of the past, my spirit fled away
Ever inward we were borne upon the streams of Time
Receding back toward the dawn, “Who I Am” and me to find
Somewhere in our distant past, our old friends hallowed grave
And there we stopped and sat at last beneath the perfumed shade.

There, we talked of this and talked of that and shared our time spanned love
There, we drank with him the living wine, ‘neath the waning moon above
There, we listened to the Nightingale as she sang her age old song
Of summers bright and winters pale, of Sultans long since gone
There, we watered with our tears of love, the blossoms --- round his sacred urn
Then onward through the mists above, through Time, our souls did journ

One more has been awoken, one more now lives again
One more has joined the gathering; one more came through the flame
One more now joins our singing as we hurtle on through time
To introduce “Who We Once Were” to He, “Who We Became.”
Now death, where is your victory, now death, where is your sting
Rejoice you children of my God, to “Who you were and will be,” SING!…..By S-word.

 

[McBell]

How can a christian, who believes in the teachings of Jesus, be clasified as a godless atheist?

You should work on your reading skills:

Just like a Christian can be an atheist- they believe in Jesus teachings, but they don't believe in any God.

There, I highlighted the part you missed.

 

[McBell]

I am glad you used the the term, "SO-CALLED.' They may believe whatever they wish, and call themselves whatever they want to, but an Athiest is one who has no God, while a christian is one who worships the God of Jesus Christ according to his teachings.

You can be one or the other, you can be a godless atheist, or a christian who worships the God of Jesus Christ according to his teachings, "Our Father who are in heaven hallowed be thy name," but you cannot be both, if a person refuses to worship our heavenly Father, or any other god, that person is a godless atheist. If that person adhere to the 10 commandments and yet worships some false god, they are not a godless atheist as they at least believe in some god, but they are not a christian.

And why should I think for even an instant that you are the final authority on such matters?

 

[McBell]

My challange, was to that person to shpw how a christian who follows the teachings of Jesus can possibly be an atheist.

Do you honestly believe that one HAS to believe in a god in order to follow the teachings of Christ?

Although no pagan can be classified as a christian, and all pagans are not atheists, as pagans can believe in, and worship or not worship the many gods that they do believe in, but all atheists are pagans, so although we may say that a person is a pagan/atheist, thereby defining that they are a pagan who believes that there is no god, it makes no sense to call a person an atheist/pagan, as all atheists are by definition, pagans.

Please give your definition of "pagan"?

Pagan:

• heathen: a person who does not acknowledge your god
• a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion (not a Christian or Muslim or Jew)
• hedonist: someone motivated by desires for sensual pleasures
• heathen: not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam
  wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

[Nanda]

You, who view all the supernatural aspects as facets of your own psyche, and use ritual as meditation to centre yourself, because It helps you quietly look within and reconnect with the earth, do not need to be reconnected to the earth, for earth you are and to the earth from which you were created, you will be returned.

You, should be looking within to see and understand the wishes of He, who was in the beginning and has become "Who You Are," by the gathering to itself of all the information taken in through the senses of the bodies of all your ancestors Human and pre-human that it, "The Alpha" had become in its evolution to become the "Omega."

Perhaps then you might be able to disconnect from this earth, the mind that is "You" who are developing within that body of universal elements, by the experiences and information that is being gathered through the senses of that body, from this visible three dimensional world that co-exists with the invisible fourth dimensional world, and then become one with "Who You Were," and "Who You will Be."

I don't want to disconnect from the earth and the mind that is me. And I'm not really interested in what you think I should be doing spiritually.

 

[S-word]

You should work on your reading skills:
There, I highlighted the part you missed.

Originally Posted by S-word
How can a christian, who believes in the teachings of Jesus, be classified as a godless atheist?

Quote=Mestemia; You should work on your reading skills:

Originally Posted by ChristineES
Just like a Christian can be an atheist-they believe in Jesus teachings, but they don't believe in any God.

Quote=Mestemia; There, I highlighted the part you missed.

I missed nothing my poor short sighted mate, if one believes in the teachings of Jesus, who taught that we should pray to God and to be obedient to him just as Jesus was, then one must believe in God, if they do not believe in his Father/God, who is our Father/God and do not pray to him, then they do not BELIEVE IN THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.

Here are some of the teachings of Jesus, not that you can be expected to know anything that he taught. Matthew 6: 7-13; When you pray, do not use a lot of meaningless words, as the pagans do, who think that God will hear them because their prayers are long and repetitious. Do not be like them. Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him. This then is how you should pray:
‘Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, etc.’

Matt 4: 16; so they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven. 5: 48; You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect. 6: 1; If you do these things publicly, you will receive no reward from your Father in heaven. 6: 4; Pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private will reward you. 6: 8; Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him. 6: 9; Our Father who art in heaven, etc. 6: 14; Your Father in heaven will also forgive you. 6: 15; Then your Father will forgive the wrongs that you have done. 6: 18; Only your Father will know and your Father will reward you. 6: 26; Your Father in heaven takes care of them. 6: 32; Your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.

An atheist or agnostic such as yourself, might believe that Jesus taught about God and that he taught of the necessity to obey Gods commands, and yet not believe in the God that he taught, but no one can believe in the teachings of Jesus and remain an atheist or agnostic. I think that you should work on your understanding of that which you read, my dear friend, if you do not believe in the God as taught by Jesus, then you do not believe in the teachings of Jesus. How hard is that to understand?

 

[S-word]

quote=Mestemia; Do you honestly believe that one HAS to believe in a god in order to follow the teachings of Christ?

S-words Response; Yep! Jesus taught that you should pray to and rely on your heavenly Father for all your needs, can an atheist follow that teaching?

quote=Mestemia; Please give your definition of "pagan"?

S-words Response; I already have, try reading post #33.

 

[Erebus]

You, who view all the supernatural aspects as facets of your own psyche, and use ritual as meditation to centre yourself, because It helps you quietly look within and reconnect with the earth, do not need to be reconnected to the earth, for earth you are and to the earth from which you were created, you will be returned.

You, should be looking within to see and understand the wishes of He, who was in the beginning and has become "Who You Are," by the gathering to itself of all the information taken in through the senses of the bodies of all your ancestors Human and pre-human that it, "The Alpha" had become in its evolution to become the "Omega."

Perhaps then you might be able to disconnect from this earth, the mind that is "You" who are developing within that body of universal elements, by the experiences and information that is being gathered through the senses of that body, from this visible three dimensional world that co-exists with the invisible fourth dimensional world, and then become one with "Who You Were," and "Who You will Be."

That's a good idea.

Or how about this...

She could do whatever SHE wants to do. That might work.

 

[S-word]

That's a good idea.

Or how about this...

She could do whatever SHE wants to do. That might work.

That's a good Idea, but you can tell her that, and I believe that she might answer you with something like this; "I'm not really interested in what you think I should be doing spiritually." But as you say, She can do what ever she wants to do, that's the beauty of having a free will.

 

[dogsgod]

quote=Mestemia; Do you honestly believe that one HAS to believe in a god in order to follow the teachings of Christ?

S-words Response; Yep! Jesus taught that you should pray to and rely on your heavenly Father for all your needs, can an atheist follow that teaching?

.


Jesus also taught the following;

Luke 6:29If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

I have never met a Christian, have you?

 

[logician]

.


Jesus also taught the following;

Luke 6:29If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

I have never met a Christian, have you?

You may have a point.

"Pastor Invites People to Bring Guns to Church"

Pastor Invites People to Bring Guns to Church - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

 

[McBell]

I missed nothing my poor short sighted mate, if one believes in the teachings of Jesus,

Quit moving the goal posts.
It reeks of desperation.

 

[McBell]

S-words Response; Yep! Jesus taught that you should pray to and rely on your heavenly Father for all your needs, can an atheist follow that teaching?

Duh, they pick and choose just like every single other Christian.

S-words Response; I already have, try reading post #33.

Why are you ignoring the rest of the definitions?

 

[S-word]

Quit moving the goal posts.
It reeks of desperation.

Got no answer hey, matey? Do you believe in the teachings of Jesus and pray to his God as his teachings instruct you to do so? I aint changing no goal posts matey, i've proved that no atheist can follow the teachings of Jesus and remain an atheist, and that there can be no such thing as an atheist/Christian. It is you are squirming in desperation my dear friend, fancy believing that an atheist can follow the teachings of Jesus and still remain an atheist, ha haa haaa.

 

[S-word]

.


Jesus also taught the following;

Luke 6:29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

I have never met a Christian, have you?

You do realise of course, that when Jesus said, "If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also," he did not mean if someone rapes one of your daughters, you must give him your other daughter also. But as to your question, "have I ever met a christian," the answer is, Yes!

Someone stole the beautiful wrought iron gate from the spectacular fences that surrounded the local church, and although the parish priest knew who took it, he did not ask for it to be returned, as he was afraid the theif, might take afence/offence.

 

[McBell]

Got no answer hey, matey? Do you believe in the teachings of Jesus and pray to his God as his teachings instruct you to do so? I aint changing no goal posts matey, i've proved that no atheist can follow the teachings of Jesus and remain an atheist, and that there can be no such thing as an atheist/Christian. It is you are squirming in desperation my dear friend, fancy believing that an atheist can follow the teachings of Jesus and still remain an atheist, ha haa haaa.

So sorry.
I thought you already knew what "moving the goal posts" meant.

See, you changed the argument from "follow Christ's teaching" to "believing in Christ's teachings".

So no, I will not be answering your goal post moving strawman argument.
As for the original argument, it has already been explained to you.

Now please feel free to fly home and claim victory.