I hear what you are saying. Remember, religious beliefs are personal most who make it their lives.
And in many cases, people don't take their religious beliefs very seriously, so it's of no real consequence.. but the problem is when people really DO take their religious ideas seriously. We can have HUGE problems then.
When you ask difficult questions, especially online in a religious debate forum, you will expect people to have preassumptions that you are attacking their faith not asking to make them think.
I do expect people to judge me.
I can't control how they choose to judge me.
As such, when you notice that your questions spark a specific reaction from people, it may be easier to reword it if you are interested in getting a respectful answer. Both of you may not understand everything; and, at least the common foundation of respect in language (remember, online is different). I notice I have to phrase my words different... put things like "many, some, a lot of" etc to soffen what I say because it sounds like generalizations and if you talked with me in person (heard my voice) that isnt so.
My point is to be aware of how other perceive what you say and if desired, reword your questions if they are patient to continue the conversation.
I welcome a good conversation based on mutual respect. I hope that I have addressed your concerns about my intentions.
I thank you for being patient.
Sometimes I put "this is a sensitive question" or you would see some people put what audience they are refering to etc in their OP, for example to avoid things of this nature. You will find many christians (which is what most people I know on RF use as a example for their arguments) not talk much in conversations not because of the tough questions but because of how they are worded and preassumptions of attack.
I can't stop people from having presumptions.
Some beliefs are rediculous, I agree. In my opinion, if I thought about it and said which ones Id feel like Im talking about the people not the beliefs. Especially if they are beliefs people still practice today.
It's only people who have beliefs. But it's really the beliefs I want to discuss, not the people. People can and do change their beliefs. We should also recognize that most people keep the religious beliefs that they were indoctrinated into as children. Nobody chooses what family they are born into. It's not their fault.
The problem is the
false beliefs. Let's challenge those..
Why should they abandon the ideas you feel are bad? (remember, each person has a personal opinion not a fact)
There are true beliefs and there are false ones. False beliefs are dangerous.
We should acquire and keep true beliefs, and abandon false beliefs.\
Why would anyone WANT to believe something that isn't true?
True beliefs are useful and beneficial, false beliefs are useless ( maybe even harmless ) at best.. and we know full well how false beliefs can have dire consequences for humanity.
And it should go without saying that we should always be ready to alter our beliefs if new data warrants it.
If I remember what what quote this was refering to, many religious have terms they define personally. Its not meaningless talk to us.
When someone can't or wont explain what they mean.. that's what I call meaningless babble. "Thanks for nothing" is what I think. It's ok to have personal definitions for terms, but we should be very clear about those.
Most religious concept words don't really convey much meaning at all.. people disagree all the time, even within the same religious groups.
Another thing people do here you will see more common is say "imho" or "imo" so whomever actually reads the post can step back and think this isnt about ME but about what the other person is saying.
IMHO, I only speak for myself.
Haha.. I never heard of that before. I dont see anything supernatual. So, I guess thats your call?
Not at all.. I am asking a question, not making a "call". I ask questions when I don't understand something. If I can't at all understand someone.. I say that the conversation was "meaningless" to me.
If you notice, I asked if you are a supernaturalist.
Touch questions are fine but with my family, it takes on a different context. How you phrased your questions sounded more like mocking.
I'm sorry that you could interpret it that way.
It was never my intention.
As a result, it doesnt sound like questions about my beliefs about my family but an attack with our family beliefs.
IMHO, it would be best to take me at my word, until you have proof that I can't be trusted to say what I mean to say.
I am very precise. IF I meant to mock your family in any way, you would have NO DOUBT about it.
I do know how to mock.
I'm actually quite good with words.
They may seem rediculous or odd from an outsider; and, that doesnt disvalue it being logical to the person who holds that belief.
Logic isn't variable from person to person. If something is logical, it's logical to everyone. That's how math and logic works.
I will need to reread what you post if youd like me to answer that particular question.
It would be great if you answered my questions. Thank you. All too many people flee in anger before they do.
I have the habit of numbering my important questions and observations.
I really WANT clarity.
Opps.. I don't know what you are agreeing with.. I only see that you say "Exactly" but not what is exactly said.
The definition of soul? I cant answer that. I dont understand what that means in context.
It's odd to me that you understand what spirit means.. but not what soul means.
In my view, everyone has a spirit. However, I never tell people they are wrong based on how I see reality.
And to so many others.. everyone has a soul. They might not have good reasons for having their beliefs. I don't know that you have shown that your beliefs about the spirit makes any sense yet. You have STATED your beliefs, but I have yet to see any reason for them.
There isn't all kinds of personally variable "realities" .. there is only the one. We have different IDEAS about the one reality.
If you have any evidence for any other "reality" out there.. let us know. I am not aware of any.
I HEAR a lot of claims about .. "other" realities. I question those claims.
I dont understand this comment? Whats it refering to?
Sorry, but somehow.. I can't read what you are asking me about... I can only see your text, not mine. I'm new here.. so I don't know all the bells and whistles. Maybe some expert reading this can help me out.
The problem is that many outsiders may not ever understand it and that is something they have to accept. For example, I do not believe in any deities. I have tried wraping my head around different types of gods, definitions of gods, and so forth and it just doesnt figure into to my way of thinking of the world.
I asked my questions, tough to soft, and did my pondering and research and now I accept that that is one of many beliefs that I will never get. I dont say its rediculous, of course; and, I do find it quite odd, the idea in general. I do tell people that... but in a manner that hopefully they understand Im talking about the religion and not their faith or their relationship with the religion itself.
Do you find that people get upset when you question their religious beliefs?
I do.
All the time.
For example, instead of saying "god is rediculous. Why do you believe in something that doesnt exist"?
I don't go around saying that god is ridiculous.. I might say that the belief is unsupported by any evidence.
I might ask "How do you know that your god exists?"
But if something someones says
is really ridiculous.. it's not my fault. I wont pretend that he made sense when he really doesn't even try to. If someone were to say "All cats are yellow and blue so you owe me ten dollars", I might say they're being ridiculous.
Id say more "I dont believe god exists. In my opinion, that is odd (for lack of better words), how did you come to belief this?"
or something to that affect.
Not everyone wants to keep it soft but online its best to lighten up a bit.
When I'm serious, people tell me to lighten up.
When I lighten up, they tell me I mock.
I can't please everyone, so I try to please myself.
We ask the same kinds of questions.. "How do we know that any god exists?.. "
So, you seem to be an atheist.
And you seem to believe in a spirit... And so, in all respect to you and your family and to each and every deserving person in this forum:
1. How do you know that a spirit exists?
2. How is spirit different from "breath"?
Also, I write long posts. I rather someone to take time reading my posts within the days they have time then pick and choose what they want to comment on. It makes it easier to explain my points without being misunderstood.
I don't know if you have noticed, but I have the very annoying habit of addressing almost ALL of what a person writes to me.
One thought at a time.
In detail.
I pay attention to what people write to me. I quote what they write, as well, so as to be as clear as possible as to what I am talking about. I even make numbered LISTS about what I consider to be important points. And I usually put a smiley face at the end, so that people know the torture is over. FOR NOW.......