How can one put so much stock in the Bible?

[Bware]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

Say I work for a budding new tech company. My boss comes to me and says "Hey Bill tomorrow is when the investors come down and it's our chance to go global. I need you to write a report on this company that I can present to the investors to convince them." What am I going to do in this situation? I'm going to write the best report I've ever written. It's going to say how my boss saved a dieing child, and works to stop world hunger, I'm going to take any sort of facts that I have and smudge them a little bit to make them sound AWESOME! I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if the bible were inspired by god "god says write this down!" It seems that the authors of said book would want to make it sound great, they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it. The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

 

[Breathe]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

You'd think if this was true, that the Omnipotent Deity would be more than capable of ensuring that people who write the book would have been of pure heart, and thus not changing things as they saw fit.

they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it.

To be honest, this is your view of what happened - it could easily have been an oral transmission regarding the sudden change of the world during the end of the ice age, for example - considering many major civilisations have a deluge myth, after all, this makes more sense in my view.

Not to mention that Noah's Ark is probably a monotheistic copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh..

The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

But, people still have early translations and they go on those.

Sadly, many people turn the metaphors and such into literal, historical stories.
Then you get problems.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

In my opinion, people who characterize the Bible as crap do little but expose their own childishness.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

Say I work for a budding new tech company. My boss comes to me and says "Hey Bill tomorrow is when the investors come down and it's our chance to go global. I need you to write a report on this company that I can present to the investors to convince them." What am I going to do in this situation? I'm going to write the best report I've ever written. It's going to say how my boss saved a dieing child, and works to stop world hunger, I'm going to take any sort of facts that I have and smudge them a little bit to make them sound AWESOME! I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if the bible were inspired by god "god says write this down!" It seems that the authors of said book would want to make it sound great, they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it. The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

As much as a I think you are trolling, you discount the many wise teachings in the bible that effect and continue to effect the world in a good way. (Yes, bad comes of it as well).

This thread only demonstrates you have a chip on your shoulder. It is not uncommon to fear or loathe that which we don't understand, and I suspect that is the case for you.

 

[Bware]

As much as a I think you are trolling, you discount the many wise teachings in the bible that effect and continue to effect the world in a good way. (Yes, bad comes of it as well).

This thread only demonstrates you have a chip on your shoulder. It is not uncommon to fear or loathe that which we don't understand, and I suspect that is the case for you.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I don't fear or misunderstand the bible. You are right there is a lot of good that comes from it. I was raised in a Christian household, going to church on Sunday and bible studies throughout the week etc.

I wasn't trying to sound harsh and standoffish, sorry. All I was trying to say is that people need to not take **** stuff so literally and be openminded. When you have things in the Bible or the Quran or whatever that people take SO LITERALLY it does more harm then good.

I see all these arguments on RF about this and that translation of this story, the TOE VS Creation, The Flood, The Tower of Babel, etc, etc and I just can't help but feel sorry for people who can't see the bigger picture.

IMO going to far in one direction is a bad thing, I think people need to stay in the middle ground. For me, I do believe there is a God out there somewhere. I think we were created, we didn't come from some primordial soup. However, I do believe in evolution. I don't think that people should try to put a name to things (like God) that they don't understand and cannot see. Bottom line, is NOONE truly knows what is out there. These arguments will never go away, because the truth is it is all unknown and noone can really prove anything.

Why can't people just accept that we really don't know and be okay with it?

 

[Bware]

In my opinion, people who characterize the Bible as crap do little but expose their own childishness.

I wasn't trying to refer the Bible it's self as crap. I meant religious dogma in general. Outlandish stories that obviously couldn't have really happened, that if they were printed in a novel somewhere people would enjoy and take it for what it is, a STORY. But since it is in the Bible, or Quran it's fact, bottom line. Aesops fables teach some really good morals and life lessons, they are stories much the same, but do people really believe they actually happened? No.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I wasn't trying to refer the Bible it's self as crap.

But that is what you believe, and you seem to obtain a good deal of ego fulfillment from posturing that belief.

I suspect that you are massively ignorant and dismissive of biblical scholarship and compensate by bravely if superficially pummeling caricatures of your own creation. The problem with this is that you merely demonstrate the worthlessness of counterposing one form of illiteracy with another.

By the way, welcome to the forum.

 

[Zorro1227]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

Say I work for a budding new tech company. My boss comes to me and says "Hey Bill tomorrow is when the investors come down and it's our chance to go global. I need you to write a report on this company that I can present to the investors to convince them." What am I going to do in this situation? I'm going to write the best report I've ever written. It's going to say how my boss saved a dieing child, and works to stop world hunger, I'm going to take any sort of facts that I have and smudge them a little bit to make them sound AWESOME! I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if the bible were inspired by god "god says write this down!" It seems that the authors of said book would want to make it sound great, they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it. The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

I actually completely understand where you are coming from; however, I agree that your approach may sound a bit harsh to some. On the other hand it is your opinion and you are entitled to have one. I don't believe there is anything wrong with believing in the Bible or any other historical text. I just do not appreciate having another's religion shoved down my throat. I am not religious, yet I grew up in an extremely conservative Christian home. In the past few years I have begun to see the errors of the Bible and the Church. I personally do not believe in any of it, but I am not going to judge someone who does believe. And welcome to the forum, I'm a newbie too :sad:

 

[Bware]

But that is what you believe, and you seem to obtain a good deal of ego fulfillment from posturing that belief.

I suspect that you are massively ignorant and dismissive of biblical scholarship and compensate by bravely if superficially pummeling caricatures of your own creation. The problem with this is that you merely demonstrate the worthlessness of counterposing one form of illiteracy with another.

By the way, welcome to the forum.

First off how are you going to tell ME what I believe? Secondly did you not read the rest of my post? People like you are exactly what I was referring to in the first place. You don't like what I said, so you belittle me and try argue with me about my "illiteracy" of the bible. The point I was trying to make is that it's okay for people to believe different things, and I just don't understand how some people can take a book like this so literally. It was written my MEN not zapped down from the heavens by a god. If it were, trust me I would be on my knees doing whatever it said.

 

[Dunemeister]

Why can't people just accept that we really don't know and be okay with it?

Perhaps because some of us in fact know?

 

[Heneni]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man.

By the same token you have to wonder how people take any stock in biographical works. If somebody else had to write down the accounts of your life, they would have had to atleast known you, or the biography would have no credibility. The bible has weight for me, because it was written by people who knew god. Not just one person, but many over many centuries. Now that in itself would not be good enough, because you could argue that they only wrote down their interpretation of god, and they did not get it right. However, when millions of christians come to know god as being exactly the same one as described in the bible, you have to ask yourself, can all of them be wrong?

The bible is a book written about god and unless there were millions of people who have come to know him personally as the one described in the book, the book would have no weight whatsoever.

We can read the biography of a man, in an attempt to get to know the man behind the face, but the bible does not work like that. You can search the scriptures daily and never know the one it talks about. God reveals himself to the inward spirit of a man, and that man will find that the bible mirrors what has been revealed to him. If it doesnt.....there is something terribly wrong with the 'revelation'.

Heneni

 

[Mr Cheese]

Just remeber

The bible tells us a man lived in a fish

...

The bible is ok, if taken in context. Its really what the reader brings to it. but that is the same for any religious text.

If one examines Hinduism for example, you could be as literalistic and simplistic (and arguably unthinking) as many fundamentalists are.... this would lead you to beleive ancient India was overrun with blue skinned guys killing each other on flying chariots....

uh yeah....

I would argue most homosapiens are essentially stupid.....
The larger the collective group, the lower the IQ tends to be...

Intelligence knows, that takign the bible literally is fraught with absurdities.
But then scripture is scripture, by being scripture it should be interpretted in many ways
and in so doing not one way supeercedes another. Of course literalistic interpretations of the bible are largely only a few hundred years old. Older years would have laughed at such an interpretation.

Of course America is full of stupid people, due to poor economics, education and many other factors.

Here we see a clear example of an intelligent website:


Comment from a reader:
"All evidence for Dunkleosteus is that it lived during the Devonian period, which would then make humans over 300 million years old (if, as you claim they lived with this fish)."
Dan Erickson, exhibit preparator, University of Michigan My response:
I believe that God created the whole world only a few thousand years ago. I believe that the dating methods are flawed (see my page on Carbon dating). Dunkleosteus, I believe lived in this same time frame, but went extinct shortly after the flood. - I believe man lived with every creature we find fossilized.


The historical accuracy of Jonah is important for it foreshadows Christ’s own death and resurrection. Christ would not associate the most important event in history (his being raised from the dead) with a mere fairy tale.
The whale is not the hero of the story, nor is the cross victorious over the power of Christ. Our attention should be drawn to what happened next, the bodily resurrection from death to life. The book of Jonah is about God and Jonah, not the whale (or fish) and Jonah.

Those who scoff at, doubt or otherwise ridicule the book of Jonah are in actuality doubting Christ's own integrity. Jesus believed and taught that Jonah was a real person, and that the events described in the Bible really did happen to him.
I believe the account of Jonah as literal history, but more importantly Christ believed it.
The story is not a parable or a dream but rather an accurate depiction of a real encounter. If you doubt the book of Jonah, or any of the Bible you will not be able to defend your faith with authority. Christ read with authority not as the scribes.

Jonah whale fish bible book of Jonah Scientifically Plausible? can a man fit in a whales stomach giant fish great fish

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First off how are you going to tell ME what I believe? Secondly did you not read the rest of my post? People like you are exactly what I was referring to in the first place. You don't like what I said, so you belittle me and try argue with me about my "illiteracy" of the bible.

Oh, but I was not trying to argue with you. I was simply making an observation, one admittedly influenced by your posts in other threads. Sorry about that ...

 

[cardero]

Usually when someone is putting stock in the bible they are putting their stock into an established business (or company). They rely on this organization to “get it right” or to produce a “prophet”. Like monetary stocks, this is still considered a gamble, a gamble that I can not personally afford.

 

[TheKnight]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

Say I work for a budding new tech company. My boss comes to me and says "Hey Bill tomorrow is when the investors come down and it's our chance to go global. I need you to write a report on this company that I can present to the investors to convince them." What am I going to do in this situation? I'm going to write the best report I've ever written. It's going to say how my boss saved a dieing child, and works to stop world hunger, I'm going to take any sort of facts that I have and smudge them a little bit to make them sound AWESOME! I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if the bible were inspired by god "god says write this down!" It seems that the authors of said book would want to make it sound great, they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it. The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

The Bible isn't meant to be a history book, or a story book. The purpose of the Torah/Tanakh is ethics. It's a book of laws and regulations. It's a book that we believe contains what God expects from us in this world. While we do believe that the stories contained therein did actually happen, the purpose of those stories is ethical understanding.

And you want to know how anyone in their right mind can read this "crap" and actually believe it happened? There are plenty of foolish things that people believe in like it's true. In fact, your very own belief that the Bible is crap is one of these things.

 

[blueman]

So this is something that I think about alot. I can't wrap my mind around how people can believe in a book that was written soley by man. Most people who believe the bible believe that it is the literal word of god or was inspired by god. Yet these same people believe that God gave man free will.

Say I work for a budding new tech company. My boss comes to me and says "Hey Bill tomorrow is when the investors come down and it's our chance to go global. I need you to write a report on this company that I can present to the investors to convince them." What am I going to do in this situation? I'm going to write the best report I've ever written. It's going to say how my boss saved a dieing child, and works to stop world hunger, I'm going to take any sort of facts that I have and smudge them a little bit to make them sound AWESOME! I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if the bible were inspired by god "god says write this down!" It seems that the authors of said book would want to make it sound great, they would imbellish stuff and make the flooding of the Tigris/Euphrates rivers where a farmer got on his boat and grabbed his livestock, into a world wide flood with every animal on earth on it. The Bible has been translated over and over and over again in so many different languages, it's like a game of telephone.

I seriously don't understand how anyone in their right mind can read this crap and ACTUALLY believe that it really happened...

If you are of the belief that there is really no purpose in life, that all we see from a naturalistic paradigm is all there is, then I truly see where your coming from. If your someone who is of the belief that an almighty God can intervene in a natural world, then the people, places, things and events of the Old and New Testament are plausible. To a large extent, the book that you so easily ridicule and discredit has withstood the test of time, in many areas has been bolstered by archeology and is a powerful resource for many millions around the world. The precision within the stories represented within the Bible do not follow the pattern of a liteary work that could easily be identified as legend and/or fiction. Your view is your opinion, but it is anecdotal at best.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The Bible isn't meant to be a history book, or a story book. The purpose of the Torah/Tanakh is ethics. It's a book of laws and regulations. It's a book that we believe contains what God expects from us in this world. While we do believe that the stories contained therein did actually happen, the purpose of those stories is ethical understanding.

And you want to know how anyone in their right mind can read this "crap" and actually believe it happened? There are plenty of foolish things that people believe in like it's true. In fact, your very own belief that the Bible is crap is one of these things.

well the fact that there are reams of Judaic literature that interprets scripture not just in light of ethics,,,, kinda puts a spanner in the works of that theory

The simple fact is there is no ONE way to see such things....

For example one Jewish interpretation of the Egypt story, is that there was no exodus or exile...egypt signifies ignorance, adn leaving egypt is leaving ignorance...an interpretation which is non literal and in some circles denies any actual Jew living in Egypt....


Frankly if there was only one way to understand these texts, the texts themselves would be rather worthless

 

[Mr Cheese]

If you are of the belief that there is really no purpose in life, that all we see from a naturalistic paradigm is all there is, then I truly see where your coming from. If your someone who is of the belief that an almighty God can intervene in a natural world, then the people, places, things and events of the Old and New Testament are plausible. To a large extent, the book that you so easily ridicule and discredit has withstood the test of time, in many areas has been bolstered by archeology and is a powerful resource for many millions around the world. The precision within the stories represented within the Bible do not follow the pattern of a liteary work that could easily be identified as legend and/or fiction. Your view is your opinion, but it is anecdotal at best.

Clearly you have not read or learned about Gilgamesh then....

 

[cardero]

The Knight writes: The purpose of the Torah/Tanakh is ethics. It's a book of laws and regulations. It's a book that we believe contains what God expects from us in this world. While we do believe that the stories contained therein did actually happen, the purpose of those stories is ethical understanding.

Exodus: 29:14 But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.

Exodus: 21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.

Exodus: 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

People hardly recognize and regulate these kind of laws and ethics anymore.

 

[TheKnight]

People hardly recognize and regulate these kind of laws and ethics anymore.

When the Temple stands again (may it be soon), sacrifices will continue to be offered. Until that time, the Jewish people are unable to offer the sacrifices that are found within their laws.

As to the other two verses, it's simply talking about taking responsibility for your property. While people are not put to death (as the Temple is required for that), a person can still be held responsible for what they do. If you have an animal (a dog even) that bites someone, then the dog is to be put to death (In case you didn't know, in California, if your dog bites someone then your dog is put down). Suppose that the dog was not put to death the first time, but the owner was warned that they should control their dog and the dog does it again. Then the owner should be made to pay for his negligence.

Simply put, if one owns property or animals and there is something that can be hazardous to other people, then the hazard must be removed. If the owner is told to remove the hazard, and doesn't, and as a result someone dies, then the owner should be held responsible. In modern times, that could be the same as charging the owner with criminally negligent homicide. Or manslaughter.