When Jesus told the Apostle Peter about until he comes he was not talking about the Holy Spirit.
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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?
When Jesus told the Apostle Peter about until he comes he was not talking about the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was not talking about the Holy Spirit when he said I am the way the truth and the life.
That is based off belief in Bahulllah being the second coming of the Messiah, not biblical exegesis.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Micah 7:12
In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
It does not mention Baha'ullah by name but I believe the verse is referring to the banishments of Bahaullah.
He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.
and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.
The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.
and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.
and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.
and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.
The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.
From: William Sears, Thief in the Night
Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not think so either.... What do you think he was talking about?
Micah 7:12
In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
It does not mention Baha'ullah by name but I believe the verse is referring to the banishments of Bahaullah.
He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.
and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.
The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.
and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.
and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.
and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.
The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.
From: William Sears, Thief in the Night
Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments
Since Baha’u’llah didn't establish world peace, I don't think that verse refers to him.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I don't think so either. I think Jesus was talking about being the Way to Truth, the Way to God, and the Way to eternal life.
Jesus said, until I come. He wasn't talking about the other members of the Trinity. I think he was talking about his second coming. It wasn't a generic farewell until he ascended to heaven. The context of the verse wasn't about his ascension to heaven.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Belief in Baha'u'llah being the second coming of the Messiah is based upon biblical exegesis.
The Old Testament doesn't mention two Messiahs. It's based off of certain Jewish interpretations.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nothing in the Bible says that the Messiah will establish world peace Himself during His lifetime.
It says world peace will be established after the Messiah comes, but it does not say when.
Jews and Christians make many assumptions about the Messiah that have no biblical basis.
The Messiah will live 1000 years on the earth in a glorified body, so world peace will happen in his lifetime.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Old Testament doesn't mention one Messiah. That is based off of certain Jewish interpretations.
Since Jesus was a Messiah there had to be another Messiah, since Jesus did not fulfill all the OT prophecies for the Messiah.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says that the Messiah will live 1000 years on the earth in a glorified body.
World peace will happen during the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, which will last no less than 1000 years.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).
These prophecies cannot refer to Jesus because Jesus disclaimed being the Mighty God when He called Himself “the Son of God” (John 5:18-47) and in those verses Jesus repudiates the charge that He claimed equality with God. Jesus disclaimed being the everlasting Father when He said, “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) and Jesus disclaimed being the Prince of Peace when He said, “I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). Jesus disclaimed bearing the government upon His shoulder when He said to “rend onto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's” (Mark 12:17, Matthew 22:21). Jesus disclaimed that He would establish a kingdom where he would rule with judgment and justice forever when He said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).
Some Jewish people believe in two Messiahs.
The Old Testament doesn't say that there would be Jesus and another Messiah. It's similar to the Old Testament not saying there won't be two comings of the Messiah.
The Bible talks about glorified bodies. If Jesus lives for 1000 years on earth it will be in a glorified body. Jesus didn't come to bring peace as in agreement with people over the Gospel but that doesn't mean that he isn't the Prince of Peace. Jesus is the Everlasting Father. A son can be a father. There is no contradiction between Jesus being the Son of God and the Everlasting Father. None of the Old Testament prophets called themselves the Son of God. A believer is a son of God but not the Son of God. Jesus was talking to his followers about paying taxes to Caesar. That doesn't mean that he won't rule the world from Jerusalem in the future. Jesus was submitting to the leadership that existed at the time. In John 18:36 Jesus was talking about why he didn't have his followers protect him from the Jewish authorities. He wasn't talking about whether he would have a literal kingdom on earth in the future. Jesus' kingdom is both spiritual and literal because it will be a literal kingdom in the future.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah. The Old Testament doesn't say that Jesus was the Messiah. If it said that Jews would believe in Jesus.
The Old Testament does not say there will or won't be two comings of the Messiah, it leaves that foe us to figure out.
That is one way God tests His servants. Some pass the test, others don't.
The Old Testament doesn't say the name Jesus because Jesus wasn't born yet. The Old Testament also doesn't say the name of who the Jewish people believe will be the Messiah but that doesn't mean that there is no Messiah. The Messiah was prophecized to come before the destruction of the second temple. If the Messiah isn't Yeshua there is no Messiah.
Jesus passed the test because he was born in Bethlehem and rode to Jerusalem on a donkey.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, there are no verses in the Bible about glorified bodies, that is simply a Christian belief based upon a misunderstanding of verse meanings. Incorruptible spiritual bodies are not glorified physical bodies.
It is clear and plain what the Bible SAYS.
There are physical bodies and spiritual bodies, as Paul said. The physical body is the source of all corruption as the Bible says, it is the source of dishonor, it is weak, and that is because the physical body is subject to sin.
The spiritual body is incorruptible because spirit can never die. Paul said that the body is raised in glory and raised in power and that is because the spiritual body has glory and power. The soul (spirit) is glorified and has power because it was created by God.
Jesus said that spirit and flesh are not equivalent. The spirit quickens, the flesh profits nothing. The flesh profits nothing because it is subject to sin and it is mortal, not everlasting.
Jesus never outwardly claim to be the Son of God, but it was inferred that He was.
Does Jesus in fact say that He is God’s Son, not just infer it? | Bible.org
Jesus never claimed to be the Everlasting Father. Jesus came in the station of the Son and Baha'u'llah came in the station of the Father.
“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you.Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63
“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty. Turn your faces towards Him, O concourse of the righteous… This is the day whereon the Rock (Peter) crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: ‘Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!…’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85
“O CONCOURSE of priests! Leave the bells, and come forth, then, from your churches. It behoveth you, in this day, to proclaim aloud the Most Great Name among the nations. Prefer ye to be silent, whilst every stone and every tree shouteth aloud: ‘The Lord is come in His great glory!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 94
Jesus' kingdom was not of this world, it was in heaven.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks
Baha'u'llah's kingdom was of this world.
“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90
You can believe whatever you want to about Jesus returning but your beliefs are not supported by the Bible.
1. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11)
2. Jesus never once promised to return to earth.
The belief that the same man Jesus will return someday is just a Christian hope, not based upon anything written the Bible.
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In John 4:25-26 Jesus outwardly claimed to be the Messiah.
Bible Gateway passage: John 4:25-26 - New International Version