How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[Skywalker]

I did not have any specific goals in mind, did you?

Who do you believe the enemy is?

So you believe that the "he" in Micah 7:12 refers to my enemy?
The text also says "Where is the Lord your God?"
I believe that the "he" in verse 12 refers to the Lord your God.

"Where is the Lord your God?"
and he shall come up to you:

10 And my enemy shall see, and shame shall cover her who says to me, "Where is the Lord your God?" My eyes shall gaze upon her: now she shall become trodden as the mire of the streets.

11 "The day to build your walls-that day-its time is way off."

12 It is a day, and he shall come up to you: those from Assyria and the fortified cities, and from the fortress up to the river and the sea from the west, and the dwellers of the mountain.

Do you think the enemy is a reference to Satan?

 

[Skywalker]

OK -- saved from what?

From being separated from God.

 

[rosends]

I did not have any specific goals in mind, did you?

The goal, I would assume, would be learning -- when there is an imbalance of knowledge, the one who lacks should try to acquire, or be informed. To try and persuade or educate when one knows less seems like a fruitless goal.

Who do you believe the enemy is?

Any and all who have oppressed the Jewish people. The text indicates FROM where (though that needn't be taken as a literal statement of either geography or identity).

So you believe that the "he" in Micah 7:12 refers to my enemy?

Yes -- the enemy says "where is the Lord" and then he approaches -- that is, "he" says "______" and then "he" approaches.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you think the enemy is a reference to Satan?

I think that the enemy is anyone or anything that separates us from God.

I do not believe in a being called Satan, but rather Satan refers to the lower selfish nature of man; so that could be one thing that separates us from God.

 

[Skywalker]

The goal, I would assume, would be learning -- when there is an imbalance of knowledge, the one who lacks should try to acquire, or be informed. To try and persuade or educate when one knows less seems like a fruitless goal.

Any and all who have oppressed the Jewish people. The text indicates FROM where (though that needn't be taken as a literal statement of either geography or identity).

Yes -- the enemy says "where is the Lord" and then he approaches -- that is, "he" says "______" and then "he" approaches.

Why do you think the Jewish people are the focus of that chapter? I believe that it's because they are God's chosen people.

 

[Benjermin Ben-Goldmann]

How is this possible?

Israel is the centre of the Faith in One God.

Stands to reason God chose the Centre point of all God given Faiths. Stands to reason they would not last, if they are not of God.

Israel has millions of pilgrims each year going to give praise to One God.

Jews and Christians, inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Muslims also inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Baha'is inclusive of people from many other previous faiths, one and all go to pray to One God.

Is it Biblical that all Faiths will become One in God?

How do all Faiths with One God, not see the One God?

RegardsTony

There is only one G-D ,one savior and that one G-D would send his prophets.
The problem with Israel today is they are not a theocratic nation as our forefathers
so their g-d since 1948 is the USA not Jehovah.The anointed one rejected them
and so he is rejected as well as any other sent so called prophet

Yerushalayim, Yerushalayim, the ones that kill the Neviim and stone those having been sent to you! How often have I wanted to gather your yeladim, as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 Hinei! Look! KI LECHARBAH YIH'YEH HABEIT HAZEH (for this House will become a ruin (i.e. churban) YIRMEYAH 22:5). 39 For I say to you, by no means will you see me [Moshiach] from now until you say, BARUCH HABAH BSHEM ADONOI.

 

[rosends]

From being separated from God.

Are you asking whether I think that Isaiah 7 is about some future, big "saving"? The standard understanding is not like that. If you look at the link I included, you will see that this section is not included in that discussion.

 

[rosends]

Why do you think the Jewish people are the focus of that chapter? I believe that it's because they are God's chosen people.

Because this was a prophecy given to a prophet who was sent to the Jewish people. Why would it be about any other?

 

[Skywalker]

I think that the enemy is anyone or anything that separates us from God.

I do not believe in a being called Satan, but rather Satan refers to the lower selfish nature of man; so that could be one thing that separates us from God.

Jesus said that he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Evil is not a symbol. Evil is real. If there is good there is evil.

 

[CG Didymus]

Abdul'baha confirmed what William Miller had found.

The talk he gave has been provided. So is there any reason I should not accept what Abdul'baha said? As Baha'u'llah has said that all Abdul'baha offered is as God intended.

Abdul'baha also said how clear was the prophecy, that it gives the required proof.

Regards Tony

So why does Abdul Baha agree with William Miller that the 2300 days should start with the Edict to rebuild Jerusalem when the context is about the abomination and the stopping of the daily sacrifice... plus the interpretation of who is the goat is given, it is Greece. Nothing in Daniel 8 refers back to 457BC,

 

[CG Didymus]

If you read the Bible you will find "The Glory of God", or the "Glory of the Lord" as the promise at the end of ages.

That is the English translation of Baha'u'llah.

Are you aware that some Arabic Bibles had the Name Baha'u'llah in them? These bibles dissapeared as of 1882, as Islam became aware of Baha'u'llah and the Claim made.

There is a link on the net somewhere to this bible.

Regards Tony

There was a singer who took the name "Prince". Did that make him a prince?

 

[CG Didymus]

Why would the farewell words of Jesus be in the other gospels, that is not what those gospels are about.
John was the last gospel written so it makes sense that it was his farewell words, spoken before He ascended to heaven.

The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions, all four are anonymous and most scholars agree that none were written by eyewitnesses.

Gospel - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Gospel

No, I do not believe these are the exact words Jesus spoke but that would not apply only to John, but also to the other gospels. There is no reason to trust the gospel of John any less than the other gospels.

There is reason to believe that Jesus was the Son of man and the Lamb that was slain, but there is nothing in the New Testament that says that Jesus would be coming back, period.

As far as I am concerned the plan of salvation is made up doctrines of the Church, none of it is actually in the Bible. Jesus said we are sinners, which even Baha'is believe, but Jesus never said that were were tainted with the sin of Adam. Christians simply took a hodgepodge of verses from the OT and the NT and used them to concoct doctrines and then Christians believed them from then on, just like Trump's followers believe him.

Boy am I grateful to be a Baha'i.

So since we don't know for sure what Jesus really said or did, what do we know? We know what the Christians came to believe. Is any of it true? Was anything that Christians ever believed, right from the beginning true? If they believed that Jesus physically rose from the dead, then by what we know from the Baha'i writing, those Christians were never right and were teaching a false doctrine. Yet, Baha'is believe Christianity is a true God-given religion?

 

[Skywalker]

There is only one G-D ,one savior and that one G-D would send his prophets.
The problem with Israel today is they are not a theocratic nation as our forefathers
so their g-d since 1948 is the USA not Jehovah.The anointed one rejected them
and so he is rejected as well as any other sent so called prophet

Yerushalayim, Yerushalayim, the ones that kill the Neviim and stone those having been sent to you! How often have I wanted to gather your yeladim, as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 Hinei! Look! KI LECHARBAH YIH'YEH HABEIT HAZEH (for this House will become a ruin (i.e. churban) YIRMEYAH 22:5). 39 For I say to you, by no means will you see me [Moshiach] from now until you say, BARUCH HABAH BSHEM ADONOI.

I believe that even during the time of Jesus, most of Israel rejected Him. Why Would Anyone Use The NIV?

People were saved back in the Old Testament the same way we are today—by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8,9).

When Noah and his family walked off the ark, Christianity had no competition. It wasn't until men came together in UNITY that they corrupted themselves once again, that God segregated them across the earth in Genesis 11:9. So, Biblically, Christianity came before any pagan religions. It wasn't until 566 B.C. that Buddha arrived. Anyone who thinks Christianity didn't exist until the time of Christ is ignorant. Psalm 22 was written around 1000 B.C. by king David, prophesying the crucifixion of Christ.

We read in Acts 11:26, "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Notice that there were DISCIPLES of Christ before the term "Christian" came into being. Thus, there were followers of Christ throughout the Old Testament.

 

[CG Didymus]

Show me one verse where Jesus says He is coming back to earth.

The one Skywalker just showed you and I showed you one in Revelation. You rejected both of them. So what can we do? I'm good with the son of man and the Lamb and the Lamb that was slain are all references to Jesus and that he is the one coming back, but I still don't believe it. You might be right. They might be right. But I don't trust either Baha'is or Christians. Both, to me, twist things to make themselves "The Truth". And not that I'm going to convert to Judaism, but I believe they are correct in not believing that Jesus is their Messiah, because of there being too many "prophecies" that are just one verse, cherry-picked things from the Bible. And Baha'is do the same. But, like I say, maybe you or they are right.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus said that he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Evil is not a symbol. Evil is real. If there is good there is evil.

If Satan is real and is an evil spirit being trying to deceive people, then what do you think of a religion that doesn't believe that Satan exists? But then for them, the Baha'is, what would they think of a religion that has God create an angel, maybe even an archangel, knowing that he would fall and lead a rebellion against him. And what does God do? He casts him to Earth? I don't know, but this could fall into the category of Baha'is say is having "superstitious" beliefs. And it would make sense. People would turn to the Church out of fear of the devil.

 

[Trailblazer]

The goal, I would assume, would be learning -- when there is an imbalance of knowledge, the one who lacks should try to acquire, or be informed. To try and persuade or educate when one knows less seems like a fruitless goal.

So who has more knowledge and why do they have more knowledge? Where did they get it from?
Could it be that some people have more knowledge of some things but lack knowledge of other things?

Any and all who have oppressed the Jewish people. The text indicates FROM where (though that needn't be taken as a literal statement of either geography or identity).

Yes -- the enemy says "where is the Lord" and then he approaches -- that is, "he" says "______" and then "he" approaches.

That is a particular interpretation of the text. As I always say to Christians, the Bible does not SAY anything; it has to be read and interpreted and the meaning of the text is derived from the interpretation of the text. Since different people interpret the text differently they assign different meanings. Who is to say one meaning is correct and the others are incorrect? Who was ever given authority by God to interpret the texts?

 

[Skywalker]

If Satan is real and is an evil spirit being trying to deceive people, then what do you think of a religion that doesn't believe that Satan exists? But then for them, the Baha'is, what would they think of a religion that has God create an angel, maybe even an archangel, knowing that he would fall and lead a rebellion against him. And what does God do? He casts him to Earth? I don't know, but this could fall into the category of Baha'is say is having "superstitious" beliefs. And it would make sense. People would turn to the Church out of fear of the devil.

Regardless of what you believe about the Bible theology opinions about Satan, evil exists. I think Satan was an annointed cherub not an archangel or maybe not even an angel. God created the angels who sinned for the same reason he created humans even though we are sinners.

 

[rosends]

So who has more knowledge and why do they have more knowledge? Where did they get it from?

Well, the text is in Hebrew and some people can discuss the Hebrew. If you are interested in discussing the text, itself, wouldn't it be a more authentic experience to discuss the text and not a translation?

That is a particular interpretation of the text. As I always say to Christians, the Bible does not SAY anything; it has to be read and interpreted and the meaning of the text is derived from the interpretation of the text. Since different people interpret the text differently they assign different meanings. Who is to say one meaning is correct and the others are incorrect? Who was ever given authority by God to interpret the texts?

OK, I have 2 answers to that. One is to point out the grammar and the antecedent of the pronoun. The second is to say "Hey, sure, you are right! Different people have different interpretations and assign different meanings, and since no one cedes authority to the other, then trying to persuade is fruitless and rejection is automatic." This, then answers the initial post of "how can the Jew reject...?"

 

[Skywalker]

So who has more knowledge and why do they have more knowledge? Where did they get it from?
Could it be that some people have more knowledge of some things but lack knowledge of other things?

That is a particular interpretation of the text. As I always say to Christians, the Bible does not SAY anything; it has to be read and interpreted and the meaning of the text is derived from the interpretation of the text. Since different people interpret the text differently they assign different meanings. Who is to say one meaning is correct and the others are incorrect? Who was ever given authority by God to interpret the texts?

Wouldn't that mean that the Christian interpretations of who the Messiah is are just as likely?

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus said that he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Evil is not a symbol. Evil is real. If there is good there is evil.

Yes, I agree that there is evil in the world, but it is not caused by Satan, it is caused by evil people.