Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not see the connection.
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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?
John the Baptist being the forerunner of Jesus was the reason for his prophethood.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Oh, that is what you meant. Yes, I agree that was the reason.
What similar reason of prophethood did Bahaullah have?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know what you mean by a reason of prophethood.
Islam teaches that there were over a hundred thousand prophets. Islam and Bahai have more of a focus on prophets than the Bible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know where you got that idea about Islam. The following is what the Baha'i Faith says about prophets, but we do not say how many there were:
Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?
Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.
Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.
The Three Kinds of Prophets
How can Bahaullah be a certain manifestation of the divinity of God when there is only one Trinity?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'is do not believe in the Trinity the same way Christians do.
I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, so in that sense I believe in a Trinity; but I do not think that these three are part of God. Rather, they are separate entities that work together. That is explained in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY
Some people get lost in that chapter, so I wrote up a brief encapsulation of it;
There is only One God.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, an emanation from God. God is like the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the rays of the sun. God remains in His own high place, and does not ever descend to earth.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which became visible and evident in Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.
Since Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God the Holy Spirit became visible and evident in Baha'u'llah, just as it was visible in Jesus.
What about the Trinity being the Godhead? I believe that the Godhead is what the Trinity is and the misunderstanding of what the Trinity is, is related to not understanding the word Godhead in the New Testament. THE GODHEAD
The Godhead
by David J. Stewart | May 2007 | Updated June 2018
Colossians 2:9, “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Skeptics of the Word of God often like to point out that the word “Trinity” is not found in the Scriptures; however, the Word “Godhead” most certainly is. We find the “Godhead” mentioned in Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, and Colossians 2:9. Colossians 2:9 states it all so well... “For in Him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Literally, the Godhead came to this earth incarnate in the man Christ Jesus. Jesus was 100% man, and 100% God. Jesus did not give up His deity when He came to the earth. According to Hebrews 5:8, Jesus humbled Himself to the Father in Heaven, even being obedient unto death (the crucifixion). The Doctrine Of God The Father (Dr. Jeff Owens)
We read in Genesis 1:26, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...” “Us” and “Our” are plural in the Hebrew. Clearly, God has manifest (or revealed) Himself to mankind as a Godhead, i.e., one God (Deuteronomy 6:4), yet three distinct individual Persons. It may not make good math; but, it definitely makes good Bible. I didn't author the Bible, God did. Either you believe that the Bible is God's Word, or you don't.
We plainly read in Matthew 28:19-20, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Here we see all three individual members of the Godhead. Again in Luke 3:22 we see all three individual members of the Godhead, “And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
These Scriptures cannot be thrown away. Several false religions, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, deny the Godhead. The argument is that the Trinity originated in pagan ancient Babylon. However, a distinct difference must be noted between the masculine Godhead of the Word of God, and the pagan goddess worship which originated with Nimrod and Semiramis. It was not Christianity that imitated paganism; but paganism Christianity. Furthermore, there is no ancient pagan religion which taught the Biblical doctrine of the Godhead. There are an abundance of Scriptural references to “God the father,” and to the “Son of God.” Clearly, they are two distinguished individuals.
The Godhead is Comprised of Three Distinct, Individual, Persons
John 1:1-2, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” How can the Word (Jesus - John 1:14) be WITH God and also BE God? The answer is THE GODHEAD!!! Jesus is a member of the Godhead, yet individually exists as God the Son. 1st John 5:7, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Amen!
The Pentecostal Oneness False Doctrine Debunked (by Pastor Steven L. Anderson)
Notice the clear distinction between God the Father and God the Son. John 5:22, “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.” The oneness Pentecostal (also called Modalism) errantly claims that God puts on different hats and is really the SAME person, but that is NOT Biblical. The Bible teaches that there is “ONE GOD” (Deuteronomy 6:4), Who exists as a Godhead, comprised of three individual, distinct, persons (Romans 1:20; Acts 17:29 and Colossians 2:9 - King James Bible only).
Again, carefully notice the clear distinction between God the Father and God the Son. John 5:30-32, “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.” These are two distinct individuals.
In the following passage of Scripture, we see all three distinct, individual, members of the Godhead. John 14:12-16, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.” Repeatedly in the Holy Bible we see the individual members of the Godhead presented. These are three individual members of the Godhead, which is God.
Jehovah's Witness' religious cult deny the Godhead (aka, Trinity). JW's deny the person of the Holy Spirit. They deny the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. JW's deny the deity of Jesus, teaching the heresy that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. JW's teach that Michael the archangel became incarnate as Jesus, and only in that sense as an angel was God's Son. Jehovah's Witnesses blatantly deny the doctrine of the Godhead. This means JW's are not saved. No one who denies the Godhead is saved. A person may be saved and not have yet learned the truth of the Godhead, but once they are taught the Scriptures, they will receive it if they are truly saved. Likewise, no one who denies Jesus' virgin birth, bodily resurrection or deity is saved.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I already explained that I do not believe in the 'Christian' Trinity so I do not believe in the Godhead.
Why do you believe in the Bible if you don't believe in the Trinity? Do you believe that the Bahai Scriptures supercede the Bible? I believe that the word Trinity might not be in the Bible but the word Godhead is and they mean the same exact thing.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What was wrong with his given name, Husayn-`Ali Nuri? What did that name mean? Was that name in the prophecies? Would he still have been able to communicate with God and write all his books and found a religion? Or did he need the grand title of "The Glory of God"? A title that is easily found all over the Bible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Are you aware that all Christians do not believe in the Trinity? It is a Christian doctrine, it is not in the Bible.
I believe that the Revelation of Baha'u'llah abrogated the Dispensations gone before it, including the Bible Dispensation.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
I believe that by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is only according to one religion at a time. Thus each religion only applies to the age (dispensation) in which it is revealed.
However, no religion is ever abrogated, because God's Word cannot be abrogated.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is a real person and not just a spiritual influence. The Holy Spirit guides, convicts, and comforts. God the Father is invisible and omnipresent. Jesus is visible, touchable, and yet perfectly holy Word always revealing and manifesting the Father. This is in the Bible, it's not Christian doctrine.
What was wrong with Jesus, not a thing, but He became known as Christ, the Anointed One, Annointed with the Holy Spirit.
Same as the Bab and Baha'u'llah. They became known as the "Gate" and the "Glory of God".
It was a name that God gave them, as the Bible said would happen.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not in the Bible that the Holy Spirit is a real person, that is a Christian doctrine. The following is what Bahais believe about the Holy Spirit:
Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?
Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection.
For example, knowledge, which is a state attained to by the intelligence, is an intellectual condition; and entering and coming out of the mind are imaginary conditions; but the mind is connected with the acquisition of knowledge, like images reflected in a mirror.
Therefore, as it is evident and clear that the intellectual realities do not enter and descend, and it is absolutely impossible that the Holy Spirit should ascend and descend, enter, come out or penetrate,it can only be that the Holy Spirit appears in splendor, as the sun appears in the mirror. Some Answered Questions, p. 108
The Trinity is in the Bible it's not just a Christian belief. Jesus prayed to the Father in the Garden. The word Godhead is in the Bible, and the Trinity has parallels in nature. The Wonderful Truth Of The Trinity
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What is the Godhead Trinity?
Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be one of the central Christian affirmations about God.
Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History | Britannica
Baha'is believe that God is one, and cannot be divided up into three persons.
“Question.—What is the meaning of the Trinity, of the Three Persons in One?
Answer.—The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent..............
God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished mirror. All the creatures are evident signs of God, like the earthly beings upon all of which the rays of the sun shine. But upon the plains, the mountains, the trees and fruits, only a portion of the light shines, through which they become visible, and are reared, and attain to the object of their existence, while the Perfect Man 2 is in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and perfections. So the Reality of Christ was a clear and polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness. The Sun of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity, the Sun did not descend to dwell and abide in the mirror. No, it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and perfection.
Now if we say that we have seen the Sun in two mirrors—one the Christ and one the Holy Spirit—that is to say, that we have seen three Suns, one in heaven and the two others on the earth, we speak truly. And if we say that there is one Sun, and it is pure singleness, and has no partner and equal, we again speak truly.
The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality—that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes—became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied—for the Sun is one—but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes visible and evident in the Reality of Christ. The Sonship station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the station of the spirit of Christ. Hence it has become certain and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 113-115
27: THE TRINITY
The Trinity is talked about in detail in the Bible. God is described in the Bible as being in distinct persons. The Distinction Of The Holy Spirit From The Father And From His Son, Jesus Christ
The Distinction Of The Holy Spirit From
The Father And From His Son, Jesus Christ
By Dr. R. A. Torrey, commented by David J. Stewart | May 2018
Acts 2:33, “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
Evangelist Rueben R. Torrey (1856-1928) was a fiery preacher, YMCA chaplain, superintendent of Moody Bible Institute and Dwight L. Moody's successor as pastor of the great Chicago Avenue Church (Moody Church today). I have a helpful old book in front of me authored by Pastor R. A. Torrey called, “What The Bible Teaches.” Please note that I don't agree with all of Dr. Torrey's teachings, as he taught something completely different than his successor, Pastor Harry A. Ironside (1875-1951) on repentance. Always remember that all men are flawed and capable of error. I believe that NO MAN is 100% doctrinally correct on everything! The inspired Word of God is our ONLY authority in all doctrinal matters. But for the record, I fully agree with Dr. Ironside. Albeit, Dr. Torrey teaches excellently on the doctrine of the Trinity.
I love a statement made in the introduction to the book, on page 4. ...
“Strictly speaking, the Bible is not a book at all. It is—as old Sir Thomas Browne described it three hundred years ago—the Divine Library.”
SOURCE: The Publishers; “What The Bible Teaches,” Introduction, p. 4; ©1898.
There has been a revival in some churches today of the age old satanic heresy of modalism, which is the lie that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not distinct persons of the Godhead. I would like to quote the following excellent helpful words of defense of the Christian faith by Dr. R. A. Torrey, from chapter III (pages 234-236) of his excellent book titled, “What The Bible Teaches,” written in 1898. ...
The Distinction Of The Holy Spirit From The Father And From His Son, Jesus Christ
(I) Luke 3:21, 22— “Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
FIRST PREPOSITION: A clear distinction is drawn between Jesus Christ, who was on earth, the Father who spoke to him from heaven, and the Holy Spirit who descended in a bodily form as a dove, upon him.
* * * * * * *
(2) Matthew 28:19— “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
SECOND PREPOSITION: A clear distinction is drawn between “the name of the Father” and “of the Son” and “of the Holy Ghost.”
* * * * * * *
(3) John 14:16— “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.”
THIRD PREPOSITION: A clear distinction is drawn between the Son who prays and the Father to whom He prays and the “Another Comforter” who is given in answer to the prayer.
* * * * * * *
(4) John 16:7— “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
FOURTH PREPOSITION: A clear distinction is drawn between Jesus who goes away and the Holy Spirit, who comes to take His place.
* * * * * * *
(5) Acts 2:33—“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
FIFTH PREPOSITION: A clear distinction is drawn between the Son exalted to the right hand of the Father, and the Father Himself, and the Holy Ghost, whom the Son receives from the Father and sheds upon the church.
* * * * * * *
(4) John 16:7— “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
GENERAL PREPOSITION: Again and again the Bible draws the clearest possible distinction between the Holy Spirit and the Father and the Son. They are separate personalities, having mutual relations to one another, acting upon one another, speaking of or to one another, applying the pronouns of the second and third persons to one another.
It has been said that the doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Bible, and it is true that it is not directly taught; but the doctrine of the Trinity is the putting together of truths that are taught. It is clearly taught in the Bible that there is but one God. It is also clearly taught that there are three Divine Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.