How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[TransmutingSoul]

If we need prophets of God to stay on the right path, why do we always stray?

We have been born on the edge of darkness and the Beginning of light, the light is the potential within us, but need to be brought out of us.

This is why Jesus said we must be born again. We must, with the Spirit of Faith embrace the Messenger and be born into the Spirit to bring the light from us.

Otherwise we remain focused in our animal self and forgetful of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

We have been born on the edge of darkness and the Beginning of light, the light is the potential within us, but need to be brought out of us.

This is why Jesus said we must be born again. We must, with the Spirit of Faith embrace the Messenger and be born into the Spirit to bring the light from us.

Otherwise we remain focused in our animal self and forgetful of God.

Regards Tony

John 3:19 says that light has come into the world, and people love darkness rather than light. Bible Gateway passage: John 3:17-21 - New King James Version

 

[TransmutingSoul]

John 3:19 says that light has come into the world, and people love darkness rather than light. Bible Gateway passage: John 3:17-21 - New King James Version

The Light is Christ and we indeed do love ourselves more than that light.

That is what Faith is all about, finding the source of the Light.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

The issue is "Bible" implies a Christian understanding of the OT. This understanding is foreign to the Jewish Tanakh. God is god, he sent his prophets, gave his law, and he promised them a Messiah.

Okay, that's what happened.

Then Christianity comes along, adds the Messiah, and Jesus said to reject those who come after him for they are false prophets.

No, that is not exactly what happened. Jesus partially fulfilled the OT prophecies for the Messiah, but Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies for the End Times Messiah so Jews rejected Jesus

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, Jesus never said to reject all prophets because they will all be false.

Amd then came along Muhammad.
Amd then came along Bab and Baha'u'llah.
Each one adding and taking, each one reinventing what the last had, each claiming to be the final and complete version of Judaism. Never mind the fact these late comers are the ones Yahweh made his covenants with.

No, that is not exactly what happened. Each one added something new, but he did not take anything from the former prophet or reinvent what he had....

And Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not claim to be the final and complete version of Judaism, they did not claim to be ANY version of Judaism. Each one of them claimed to bring a new Revelation from God from which a new religion was established.

 

[Skywalker]

Okay, that's what happened.
No, that is not exactly what happened. Jesus partially fulfilled the OT prophecies for the Messiah, but Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies for the End Times Messiah so Jews rejected Jesus

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, Jesus never said to reject all prophets because they will all be false.

No, that is not exactly what happened. Each one added something new, but he did not take anything from the former prophet or reinvent what he had....

And Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not claim to be the final and complete version of Judaism, they did not claim to be ANY version of Judaism. Each one of them claimed to bring a new Revelation from God from which a new religion was established.

Isaiah 42 and 49 speak of the servant of the Lord, distinguished from Israel, who would seem to fail in his mission to Israel and yet be a light to the nations and yet will persevere until the job is done, and at the end of Isaiah 52 verse 13, it says that he will be highly exalted but first will suffer terribly, and the confession of Israel in the 53rd chapter, that we thought that he was dying for his sins, in fact he was dying for our sins, and it's the cost of his wounds that we're healed.

Zechariah 12 mentions the people of Judea and Jerusalem looking to the one they've pierced and mourning over that. The mourning is the recognizing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, that is not exactly what happened. Jesus partially fulfilled the OT prophecies for the Messiah, but Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies for the End Times Messiah so Jews rejected Jesus

According to the Jews here (and Jews in general) he did not fulfill numerous prophecies the Messiah is charged with fulfilling. Not these end time prophecies, the prophecies the Messiah is supposed to fulfill while alive, while bringing the Jews home, while establishing his state on Earth.

 

[Skywalker]

According to the Jews here (and Jews in general) he did not fulfill numerous prophecies the Messiah is charged with fulfilling. Not these end time prophecies, the prophecies the Messiah is supposed to fulfill while alive, while bringing the Jews home, while establishing his state on Earth.

Saying that the Messiah will reappear is no different from saying that there will be a second advent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus said to beware of false prophets, Jesus never said to reject all prophets because they will all be false.

He said many will come,but beware for they are false prophets. He didn't say some, most, or a few, he said these people coming in his name are false prophets.

No, that is not exactly what happened. Each one added something new, but he did not take anything from the former prophet or reinvent what he had....

That's how Jesus went from Messiah to prophet and the Messiah spot going back to unfulfilled in Islam. It's how Satan became the Devil. It's how they all put together for Bahai.

And Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah did not claim to be the final and complete version of Judaism, they did not claim to be ANY version of Judaism. Each one of them claimed to bring a new Revelation from God from which a new religion was established.

This very thing was claimed on this very thread just a few posts up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Saying that the Messiah will reappear is no different from saying that there will be a second advent.

The prophecies don't state a second time. The messiah does it all in one go.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The origins of Jesus do not disqualify him from being the Messiah.

No, but a lack of fulfilling prophecy does.

 

[Trailblazer]

Doesn't matter. Jews don't have a messiah.

Because they rejected both Messiahs.

Christians added one that warned against those who would come after him. And lo and behind, behind Jesus comes Paul, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah also claiming to be prophets, final prophets, change Jesus' role.

Jesus warned about false prophets, and rightfully so, because there have been many false prophets; but Jesus never said there would be no true prophets coming after Him. He said "Ye shall know them by their fruits" which indicates there would be some with fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

You can force fit puzzle pieces where they don't fit. Christians down have been trying to do just this with Judaism.

Or you can figure out how to put the puzzle pieces together so they fit together perfectly.
You need all the pieces from all the religions to make the puzzle, first to last.

 

[Flankerl]

Don't Jews believe that only the Torah is the Word of God

Well no it's more complicated than that.

thus Jesus was a false prophet?

Who cares about that guy?

Is it true that Jews believe they have the only true religion and the only true scriptures? Yes or no.

Nah actually we don't.

If yes, then you are saying that everyone in the world who is not Jewish, seven billion seven hundred eighty-six million people,
are following a false religion and a false God.

I will allow you to draw your own conclusions from that.

You are writing this as if all of those people follow the same Religion when that is not the case.
You are also making the case for numbers equal whether one is right or wrong, which immediately means that your Religion is wrong as there are bigger Religions.

I also don't see how "wiggling Jews" have anything to do with that.
Please explain all the Jewish wiggling that upsets you.

 

[Skywalker]

No, but a lack of fulfilling prophecy does.

One like a man is a reference to God being a human. God is not a mere man by definition, and if the Messiah was, the verse wouldn't say like a man. Son of man (Judaism) - Wikipedia

Daniel
In the Book of Daniel, parts of the text are written in Aramaic, this portion of the volume (7:13-14) deals with a vision attributed to the author about "the times of the end":

Daniel 7:13–14

13 חזה הוית בחזוי ליליא וארו עם־ענני שׁמיא כבר אנשׁ אתה הוה ועד־עתיק יומיא מטה וקדמוהי הקרבוהי׃ 14 ולה יהיב שׁלטן ויקר ומלכו וכל עממיא אמיא ולשׁניא לה יפלחון שׁלטנה שׁלטן עלם די־לא יעדה ומלכותה פ
13 I saw in the visions of the night, and behold with the clouds of the heaven, one like a man (כבר אנש [kibar 'anash]) was coming, and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was brought before Him.
14 And He gave him dominion and glory and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and tongues shall serve him; his dominion is an eternal dominion, which will not be removed, and his kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.[11]

 

[Trailblazer]

If we need prophets of God to stay on the right path, why do we always stray?

Because most people reject the Prophets.

 

[Skywalker]

The prophecies don't state a second time. The messiah does it all in one go.

Zechariah 14:4 mentions the Day of the Lord.

On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by ha very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.

 

[Trailblazer]

Isaiah 42 and 49 speak of the servant of the Lord, distinguished from Israel, who would seem to fail in his mission to Israel and yet be a light to the nations and yet will persevere until the job is done, and at the end of Isaiah 52 verse 13, it says that he will be highly exalted but first will suffer terribly, and the confession of Israel in the 53rd chapter, that we thought that he was dying for his sins, in fact he was dying for our sins, and it's the cost of his wounds that we're healed.

Zechariah 12 mentions the people of Judea and Jerusalem looking to the one they've pierced and mourning over that. The mourning is the recognizing.

I believe that all these prophecies refer to Baha'u'llah.

 

[Skywalker]

Because most people reject the Prophets.

Why would humanity need over a hundred thousand prophets to stay on the right path? The Bible's 66 books weren't written by that many prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

The prophecies don't state a second time. The messiah does it all in one go.

Where in the Bible does it say that the messiah will do it all in one go?

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that all these prophecies refer to Baha'u'llah.

Do you believe that they refer to the second coming of the Messiah? I think Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah because they think it doesn't make sense that he would fulfill the prophecies in two comings and they think that anyone can say that they are the Messiah.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would humanity need over a hundred thousand prophets to stay on the right path? The Bible's 66 books weren't written by that many prophets.

Who said anything about a hundred thousand prophets?
It is important to note that not all prophets come to help us stay on the right path. Some come to predict the future and some are followers and promoters of the high prophets, which are the universal Manifestations of God.

The Three Kinds of Prophets