How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[Skywalker]

Who said anything about a hundred thousand prophets?
It is important to note that not all prophets come to help us stay on the right path. Some come to predict the future and some are followers and promoters of the high prophets, which are the universal Manifestations of God.

The Three Kinds of Prophets

Islam teaches that there are 124,000 prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you believe that they refer to the second coming of the Messiah?

Yes, I believe that.

I think Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah because they think it doesn't make sense that he would fulfill the prophecies in two comings and they think that anyone can say that they are the Messiah.

That's too bad, because there is nothing in their scriptures that say everything will all be fulfilled by one coming or one man.
That was simply an assumption that they made based upon their own expectations.

 

[firedragon]

How is this possible?

Israel is the centre of the Faith in One God.

Stands to reason God chose the Centre point of all God given Faiths. Stands to reason they would not last, if they are not of God.

Israel has millions of pilgrims each year going to give praise to One God.

Jews and Christians, inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Muslims also inclusive of people from many other previous faiths and Baha'is inclusive of people from many other previous faiths, one and all go to pray to One God.

Is it Biblical that all Faiths will become One in God?

How do all Faiths with One God, not see the One God?

RegardsTony

Because though you try your best to create the oneness, you cannot reconcile the contradictions. Thats why.

I know for a fact that the Jews hate people trying to reinterpret their Tanakh to suit their evangelical purposes. I know that they also hate their Tanakh being called the Old Testament. So that's why.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why would humanity need over a hundred thousand prophets to stay on the right path? The Bible's 66 books weren't written by that many prophets.

Why do we need any? Why doesn't god make things more personal for us?

 

[Trailblazer]

That's really pretty words, and I can understand why they would inspire you.

But the truth is,
Judaism understands the Messiah one way, using our texts.
Christianity understands the Messiah a different way, using its texts.
Islam understands the Messiah yet another way, using its texts.
And Baha'i's understanding is different than all of the above, using your texts.

IOW we do NOT have the same messiah. We just use the same word.

What you are really saying is that the religions don't all have the same conception if the Messiah.
Iows, religions all have a different understanding is who the Messiah will be, what he will do, etc.

So what makes any one religion right and the others wrong in their conceptions, or do you believe that it is logical to think that there will be many different Messiahs, one for each religion?

 

[firedragon]

I believe that all these prophecies refer to Baha'u'llah.

Can you tell me why Isaiah 7:14 would refer to Bahaullah? Or did you not mean this one?

Then please tell me how Isaiah 9 refer to Bahaullah?

 

[Skywalker]

Why do we need any? Why doesn't god make things more personal for us?

God wrote the Bible using people. All the books of the Bible have the same message of God's love, forgiveness, but God also being holy and just. I agree that 124,000 prophets of Islam doesn't sound personal in terms of one's relationship with God. God speaks to us through His word because we read books.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you tell me why Isaiah 7:14 would refer to Bahaullah? Or did you not mean this one?

No, I did not refer to that verse. That verse applies to Jesus.

Then please tell me how Isaiah 9 refer to Bahaullah?

I did not refer that one either in my response to Skywalker, but since you mentioned it...

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, I believe that.

That's too bad, because there is nothing in their scriptures that say everything will all be fulfilled by one coming or one man.
That was simply an assumption that they made based upon their own expectations.

Why do you believe that the Messiah isn't Jesus? The Old Testament never says that there would be two Messiahs.

 

[Trailblazer]

According to the Jews here (and Jews in general) he did not fulfill numerous prophecies the Messiah is charged with fulfilling. Not these end time prophecies, the prophecies the Messiah is supposed to fulfill while alive, while bringing the Jews home, while establishing his state on Earth.

All according to how the Jews interpret their scripture, thus what they understand it to mean.
But who says the Jews are correct in their understanding?
I can read the same verses and come up with a different interpretation.

Oh and by the way, there are no verses that say that the Messiah will fulfill those prophecies while alive, thus there is no basis for believing that.

And there are no verses that say that the Messiah will establish the Jewish state. However, the Jewish state has already been established and Jews have already returned to their homeland, indicating that the Messiah has already come.

On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.

Creation of Israel, 1948 - Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of ..

 

[Skywalker]

No, I did not refer to that verse. That verse applies to Jesus.

I did not refer that one either in my response to Skywalker, but since you mentioned it...

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Baha’u’llah was the Prince of Peace because world peace will be established during His religious dispensation. Baha’u’llah set up a system of government and it has already been established among the Baha’is. The institutions of that government are fully operational, but still in their infancy. They will be more developed in the future as the prophecy says (increase in government).

I think people reject the belief that Jesus is the Prince of Peace because Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace. But Jesus wasn't talking about peace in general, he was talking about people who didn't agree with Christians. Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 10:34-36 - English Standard Version

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you believe that the Messiah isn't Jesus? The Old Testament never says that there would be two Messiahs.

The Old Testament never says that there would be only one Messiah.

Jesus was the Messiah of the first advent, but He won't be the Messiah of the second advent.
(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

 

[Skywalker]

All according to how the Jews interpret their scripture, thus what they understand it to mean.
But who says the Jews are correct in their understanding?
I can read the same verses and come up with a different interpretation.

Oh and by the way, there are no verses that say that the Messiah will fulfill those prophecies while alive, thus there is no basis for believing that.

And there are no verses that say that the Messiah will establish the Jewish state. However, the Jewish state has already been established and Jews have already returned to their homeland, indicating that the Messiah has already come.

On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.

Creation of Israel, 1948 - Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of ..

The Jews are not yet all regathered to Israel. That prophecy was not fulfilled yet.

 

[Skywalker]

The Old Testament never says that there would be only one Messiah.

Jesus was the Messiah of the first advent, but He won't be the Messiah of the second advent.
(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

Zechariah 14:4 refers to the Messiah as God. Jesus is God.

 

[Trailblazer]

He said many will come,but beware for they are false prophets. He didn't say some, most, or a few, he said these people coming in his name are false prophets.

Good catch. Those who came in His name claimed to be Christ or Jesus. Baha'u'llah never claimed that, He came in His own name.

That's how Jesus went from Messiah to prophet and the Messiah spot going back to unfulfilled in Islam. It's how Satan became the Devil. It's how they all put together for Bahai

Anyone can believe anything they want to but that does not make it true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well no it's more complicated than that.

How so? What besides the Torah is the Word of God?

Who cares about that guy?

Christians, Muslims, and Baha'is.

Nah actually we don't.

So what other religions do you believe are true?

You are writing this as if all of those people follow the same Religion when that is not the case.

You are also making the case for numbers equal whether one is right or wrong, which immediately means that your Religion is wrong as there are bigger Religions.

That is a straw man. I never said everyone who is not Jewish follows the same religion. Obviously that is not the case.

I also never said that numbers equal right or wrong.
How many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or false. That is the fallacy of argumentum ad populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

I also don't see how "wiggling Jews" have anything to do with that.

Please explain all the Jewish wiggling that upsets you.

I am not upset about wiggling Jews, sorry for the comment.

I must have answered 100 posts today and I have been in the forum for 12 hours and I am not done yet.

This new thread was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
And now I see 8 more posts.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Jews are not yet all regathered to Israel. That prophecy was not fulfilled yet.

I have been down this road before. Nowhere do any verses say that ALL the Jews in the world will return to Israel.
This is just another example of misinterpreting and thus misunderstanding verses.

Jews could not all live in Israel there because the country is too small.
Besides that, not all Jews want to live in Israel.

 

[Trailblazer]

Zechariah 14:4 refers to the Messiah as God. Jesus is God.

I see no reference to God in that verse.
Jesus never claimed to be God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Because though you try your best to create the oneness, you cannot reconcile the contradictions. Thats why.

I know for a fact that the Jews hate people trying to reinterpret their Tanakh to suit their evangelical purposes. I know that they also hate their Tanakh being called the Old Testament. So that's why.

The good thing is it's not me that is doing it firedragon.

Luckily God has the plan under control.

So how people minds will change now seems inevitable.

Zephaniah 3:8 “Therefore wait for Me,” declares the Lord, “For the day when I rise up as a witness. Indeed, My decision is to gather nations, To assemble kingdoms, To pour out on them My indignation, All My burning anger; For all the earth will be devoured By the fire of My zeal."

Seems we need events like that.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

The good thing is it's not me that is doing it firedragon.

Tell a Jew, that the Isaiah prophecy is Bahaullah and then you would know that "you are doing it too".