How can we be sure that there is a God? Lets use evidence instead of wanting Him to be there.

[W3bcrowf3r]

People, please lets stay on topic. We can always creat new threads. This way we make this thread informative and short. Please lets respect the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Still wrong. Blood cells are formed in bone marrow.

I am talking about Milk , not blood.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

I agree that Moses and Muhammad are comparable Messengers of God.

I believe that Jesus was a Messenger of God just like Moses and Muhammad. I believe Jesus was infallible but so were all the other Messengers. What we might consider an error was not an error in the sight of God.

Jesus had a different mission on earth just like Moses and Muhammad each had a different mission. Jesus had a very important mission, as He was the Herald to the Kingdom of God that would come later. So in that sense maybe we can say Jesus' mission was greater than the mission of Moses or Muhammad. However, all Messengers are equal in stature, and according to my beliefs we are not supposed to exalt any one over another.

There was only one Jesus but there is more than one Messenger who brought the Christ Spirit. Baha’u’llah was the Return of the Christ Spirit.

I believe that God exists because of the Messenger of God, Baha’u’llah, and His Revelation to humanity. It all ties in with the former Messengers but I believe that Baha’u’llah is the greatest proof that God exists because His Revelation was so stupendous and He was much more verifiable than any former Messengers.

I still have to read Kitab l Aqdas .

If you read the Gospel, then we both know who Jesus is.

They are equal. But some have higher ranks though.

 

[Jumi]

For proof we can only look inside.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

An English translation of the Quran - 55:33 O assembly of Jinn and mankind, if you can penetrate the boundaries of the heavens and the earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without might.

That doesn't say it will happen, but rather that if we can then we should.
And it was brains, not brawn and might, that got us there.

Quran - 27:88 And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do.

They are definitely not passing by like clouds. I've seen clouds move. I've never seen a solid mountain move (because they are indeed solid). It would be impressive if it actually explained the formation of mountains and how it's the land mass itself that creates and "moves" mountains.

An English translation of the Quran - 23:12 And We have created man from an extract from clay. 23:13 Then We made him a seed in a safe lodging. 23:14 Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.

That's not a prophesy or anything impressive. But what's interesting is that the Quran says sperm is produced between the spine and ribs, not the testicles.

Einstein did believe in God,

Einstein was very much into Spinoza's Pantheism, and he wrote he thought beliefs in personal deities and the survival of the soul after death are childish. "God doesn't play with dice" referred not to some "bearded man in the sky" (Sagan), but rather to the laws that govern the universe itself.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

That doesn't say it will happen, but rather that if we can then we should.
And it was brains, not brawn and might, that got us there.

They are definitely not passing by like clouds. I've seen clouds move. I've never seen a solid mountain move (because they are indeed solid). It would be impressive if it actually explained the formation of mountains and how it's the land mass itself that creates and "moves" mountains.

That's not a prophesy or anything impressive. But what's interesting is that the Quran says sperm is produced between the spine and ribs, not the testicles.

Einstein was very much into Spinoza's Pantheism, and he wrote he thought beliefs in personal deities and the survival of the soul after death are childish. "God doesn't play with dice" referred not to some "bearded man in the sky" (Sagan), but rather to the laws that govern the universe itself.

I disagree with you about the prophecy about humanity going into space. It said 'you will not except with might' which means that they will. And you should do some research about how much money is being pumped in going to the moon and how much money it costs to go to mars etc.

Where does the Quran say that sperm is being produced between the spine and the ribs? How good is your Arabic by the way? What kind of translation did you read? Or did you even read a translation? I never heard such a statement.

Anyways, i am not going to talk with you about Greek, Hebrew and Arabic Books if you don't know these languages. Never judge a Book by its cover of what people claim in name of it.

I wish you the best. Religion is simple. Love God, Love your Neighbor. Do not sin, do not commit Idolatry. And stay away from all these denominations. To you is your way and to me is my way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am talking about Milk , not blood.

Sorry, my mistake. But still wrong. Milk is made in the mammary glands.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I disagree with you about the prophecy about humanity going into space. It said 'you will not except with might' which means that they will.

Basic grammar rules dictate that no, "you will not except with" does not mean it will happen, but rather is giving a condition that must be met to achieve this. We can easily change this to another subject and get the same thing, such as graduating from school is good, but you will not except with good grades." This doesn't mean you will graduate from school, it means will will if you get good grades.

Where does the Quran say that sperm is being produced between the spine and the ribs? How good is your Arabic by the way? What kind of translation did you read? Or did you even read a translation? I never heard such a statement.

86: 6-7. Yes, it says that the "gushing water" that "creates man" is produced "between the back bone and ribs."

Anyways, i am not going to talk with you about Greek, Hebrew and Arabic Books if you don't know these languages.

Pretty sure you don't know them either. Not sure about Hebrew and Arabic, but I know someone with a Ph.D. in theater, and he does know Greek but only what we can know - myself having a philosophy minor I know there are limits to how much people can know ancient Greek because there is so much debate over the meaning of just one word here-and-there or what a phrase in the original Greek meant to translate it to a modern language.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Sorry, my mistake. But still wrong. Milk is made in the mammary glands.

Have you studied this topic like a scientist? Mammary gland is just the Latin word for breast. That the milk is being produced in the breasts is logical. But that it's being produced between the excretion and the blood. They couldn't have know that in that time.

And there is more science that can be found in the Quran.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Basic grammar rules dictate that no, "you will not except with" does not mean it will happen, but rather is giving a condition that must be met to achieve this. We can easily change this to another subject and get the same thing, such as graduating from school is good, but you will not except with good grades." This doesn't mean you will graduate from school, it means will will if you get good grades.

86: 6-7. Yes, it says that the "gushing water" that "creates man" is produced "between the back bone and ribs."

Pretty sure you don't know them either. Not sure about Hebrew and Arabic, but I know someone with a Ph.D. in theater, and he does know Greek but only what we can know - myself having a philosophy minor I know there are limits to how much people can know ancient Greek because there is so much debate over the meaning of just one word here-and-there or what a phrase in the original Greek meant to translate it to a modern language.

I disagree with you about the Quran in 55:33. It's a prophecy, that humanity will go into space with might.
And people talking about space travel 1400 years ago would have been made out for crazy lunatics anyways.

The most hardened in disbelieve against the Quran were Arabs themselves who were mastering the language.
So understanding can vary.

That's why it's important to learn the language of the Book if you want to discus it.

An English translation of the Quran - 86:7 It comes out from between the spine and the testicles.

And i know ancient Arabic. I can read and write it. I am now focussing on grammar and words. And i talked with Greek people and they have the same story, they know modern and ancient Greek as well.
So the excuse of 'the language is ancient' is not a valid one.
And lets not even begin about Hebrew since they have far more knowledge then the Arabs and Greeks if it comes to Scripture and Language.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Remember this is said 1400 years ago when the majority didn't even know how to read or write properly.

Space agency prophecy:
An English translation of the Quran - 55:33 O assembly of Jinn and mankind, if you can penetrate the boundaries of the heavens and the earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without might.

Mountains, i didn't mean it like that, i mean, they actually move through tectonics pushing them up/down/left/right/front/back etc. while people in that age didn't know that:
An English translation of the Quran - 27:88 And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do.

Sorry, my description was wrong, i mean not just 'belly', anyways, scientists started believing in the Quran when they did research it and see how a 1400 year Book was giving that information:
An English translation of the Quran - 23:12 And We have created man from an extract from clay. 23:13 Then We made him a seed in a safe lodging. 23:14 Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators.

And umm most scientists i know where reading the Bible. Einstein did believe in God, he was Jewish. Isaac Newton knew the Bible better then the majority of people living today.. So..

Here's the thing about these ridiculous "science in the Bible/Qur'an/Vedas/whatever" claims: if they were actually true, then we would have seen adherents believing the "science" in their holy books before the scientific community established it as true.

... but this never happens.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

An English translation of the Quran - 86:7 It comes out from between the spine and the testicles.

That would be a different translation, and it's not anymore accurate given that translation still puts everything in the wrong spot.

I disagree with you about the Quran in 55:33. It's a prophecy, that humanity will go into space with might.
And people talking about space travel 1400 years ago would have been made out for crazy lunatics anyways.

It doesn't say we will. It says we can, that if we can we should, and that we won't do it without might. If you can play Flight of the Bumblebee on guitar faster than everyone else you should, but you won't except through practice.

So the excuse of 'the language is ancient' is not a valid one.

Except I didn't just dismiss it as "the language is ancient." I gave specific examples. Ever try to figure out exactly what Aristotle meant by catharsis? It's not necessarily as easy as turning to a dictionary to figure this out (hint, those who came after Aristotle contributed more to the definition that what Aristotle did).
My point was I doubt you're a scholar on ancient Greek, and it's something I have some experience with to know that even the scholars and experts can't 100% translate it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.

This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

I think you explained it. I don't see god as a deity not entity, so not a person, but scientifically, what reforms, combined, made into life such as babies and mountains are all god. God is the motor or energy in which sparks all life and every physical thing in the universe. It's all.

Metaphysically, the scientific say to know god is by culture and prayer. Culture livens the interpetation of god. Not all are entities floating in space. Prayer or meditation gets you in touch with the energy or life within oneself. It's psychological as well as psychological, scientifically speaking, but personal speaking god is gratitude and the gift of life.

That's how I understand god. As an entity or deity that depends on the religion. I feel that's a way to understand life and interaction by personifying it. It's a cultural thing not sourced by metaphysics.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Space agency prophecy:
An English translation of the Quran - 55:33 O assembly of Jinn and mankind, if you can penetrate the boundaries of the heavens and the earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without might.

And you think this refers to a space agency?

It was common in the ancient world to believe that the Earth is flat and the sky above it is a solid dome. It seems to me that the straightforward interpretation of this passage is that they're saying that the solid dome of the sky is very strong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have you studied this topic like a scientist? Mammary gland is just the Latin word for breast. That the milk is being produced in the breasts is logical. But that it's being produced between the excretion and the blood. They couldn't have know that in that time.

And there is more science that can be found in the Quran.

But that was not what you claimed in your previous post.
You made an error. Blood is not an excretion. The blood system is how nutrients and energy are delivered through the body.

As you admitted English is not your first language so you may be having trouble communicating. But from my experience there was no science ahead of its time in the Quran. An ex-Muslim may be able to explain to you better since they will hopefully understand your native tongue.

 

[WalterTrull]

I don't believe that's the definition of God. I think God is the one who creates that awareness, but He is not limited to being that awareness. Else you could say that God is something only in us, but i believe God is outside time and space.

Different strokes

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

And you think this refers to a space agency?

It was common in the ancient world to believe that the Earth is flat and the sky above it is a solid dome. It seems to me that the straightforward interpretation of this passage is that they're saying that the solid dome of the sky is very strong.

The Quran says that the earth is rounded..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Quran says that the earth is rounded..

Does it?

Edit: there are many verses that refer to God "spreading out" a flat Earth.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Does it?

Edit: there are many verses that refer to God "spreading out" a flat Earth.

It uses the word 'jokawira' which is not flat but round.

An English translation of the Quran - 39:5 He created the heavens and the earth with the truth. He rolls the night over the day, and He rolls the day over the night. And He commissioned the sun and the moon, each running for an appointed term. Absolutely, He is the Noble, the Forgiving.

An English translation of the Quran - 88:20 And to the land, how was it flattened?

39:5 speaks about a round/globe earth, else how can the night roll in the day and the day in the night.
88:20 is just saying that the earth is flattened out, while it being a globe.

People with their own intentions without even knowing Arabic will always distort the verses. They don't care. They only want to make their point clear.
So i disagree with you. Lets have this discussion in Arabic since we are talking about a Book written in Arabic. Lets see how far you will come.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.

This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

Human beings have been making semi-accurate predictions about how the physical world works since almost forever. The ancient Greeks intuited the concept that all matter is composed of atoms. Do you conclude that this is evidence that the Greek gods are real? If not, why then would you conclude that just because there is some semi-accurate science in old Muslim texts it means the god of the Quran is real?