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How can we be sure that there is a God? Lets use evidence instead of wanting Him to be there.

W3bcrowf3r

Active Member
Human beings have been making semi-accurate predictions about how the physical world works since almost forever. The ancient Greeks intuited the concept that all matter is composed of atoms. Do you conclude that this is evidence that the Greek gods are real? If not, why then would you conclude that just because there is some semi-accurate science in old Muslim texts it means the god of the Quran is real?

I like the science in the Quran which was Revealed 1400 years ago.

Where is this evidence that the Greek did talk about atoms? Greek 'gods' and Greek science are two different topics. I only know the Greek Gospel, which i also believe in, the New Testament is written originally in Greek. But your statement about Greek idols and science.. hmm.. is there any Book written by them ('the greek Gods') which states it's a Revelation from God?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I like that!

It seemed to have done so for Isaac Newton. And others.

Sadly it appears to have had the exact opposite affect on Newton. The only reason that Newton didn't reach the conclusions about the stability of the solar system that Pierre-Simon Laplace did is because he decided that an anomaly he couldn't explain had to have been a result of the invisible hand of God. The moment a scientist concludes that 'God did it' he/she ceases to have a reason to continue seeking answers.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
People, please lets stay on topic. We can always creat new threads. This way we make this thread informative and short. Please lets respect the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.
Again. How much science education do you actually have? I can talk science till the end of time, but we need to know how much familiarity u have about it.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I like the science in the Quran which was Revealed 1400 years ago.

Where is this evidence that the Greek did talk about atoms? Greek 'gods' and Greek science are two different topics. I only know the Greek Gospel, which i also believe in, the New Testament is written originally in Greek. But your statement about Greek idols and science.. hmm.. is there any Book written by them ('the greek Gods') which states it's a Revelation from God?

The link below explains how the Greeks originally came up with the concept that all matter is comprised of tiny particles.

Ancient Greeks Were the First to Hypothesize Atoms

And what does it matter whether or not the Greeks who came up with the concept claimed it to be 'god inspired' or not? Is that all it takes for you to believe that something is 'god inspired'? As long as those who wrote it 'claim' that it's a revelation from god, then it is? Seriously?
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.

This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

There is evidence for a mark of extraterrestrial intelligence left in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

“There is no plausible chemical logic to couple directly the triplets and the amino acids. In other words, the principles of chemistry where not the sought essence of the genetic code”

“The zero is the supreme abstraction of arithmetic. Its use by any alphabet, including the genetic code, can be an indicator of artificiality.”

"The place-value decimal system represented through digital symmetry of the numbers divisible by prime number (PN 037). This arithmetical syntactic feature is an innate attribute of the genetic code. The PN 037 notation with a leading zero emphasizes zero's equal participation in the digital symmetry. Numbers written by identical digits are devised by PN 037*3=111 and 1+1+1=3 and appear regularly [from the figure: 037*6 =222 and 2+2+2=6, 037*9=333 and 3+3+3 =9, 037*4=444 and 4+4+4=12, 037*15=555 and 5+5+5=15, 037*18=666 and 6+6+6=18, 037*21=777 and 7+7+7 =21. 037*24 =888 and 8+8+8=24, 037*27=999 and 9+9+9=27.)"

"There is a complete set of information symbols utilizing the decimal syntax 111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888, 999 in the genetic code. Each of these symbols consists uniformly of a carrier (balanced nucleons) and a meaning (the decimal syntax)."

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code

"The first information system emerged on the earth as primordial version of the genetic code and genetic texts. The natural appearance of arithmetic power in such a linguistic milieu is theoretically possible and practical for producing information systems of extremely high efficiency. In this case, the arithmetic symbols should be incorporated into an alphabet, i.e. the genetic code. A number is the fundamental arithmetic symbol produced by the system of numeration. If the system of numeration were detected inside the genetic code, it would be natural to expect that its purpose is arithmetic calculation e.g., for the sake of control, safety, and precise alteration of the genetic texts. The nucleons of amino acids and the bases of nucleic acids seem most suitable for embodiments of digits. These assumptions were used for the analyzing the genetic code.

The compressed, life-size, and split representation of the Escherichia coli and Euplotes octocarinatus code versions were considered simultaneously. An exact equilibration of the nucleon sums of the amino acid standard blocks and/or side chains was found repeatedly within specified sets of the genetic code. Moreover, the digital notations of the balanced sums acquired, in decimal representation, the unique form 111, 222, …, 999. This form is a consequence of the criterion of divisibility by 037. The criterion could simplify some computing mechanism of a cell if any and facilitate its computational procedure.

Reference: Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209
"Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662

"Numerous arithmetical regularities of nucleon numbers of canonical amino acids for quite different systematizations of the genetic code, which are dominantly based on decimal number 037, indicate the hidden existence of a more universal ordering principle. Mathematical analysis of number 037 reveals that it is a unique decimal number from which an infinite set of self-similar numbers can be derived with the nested numerical, geometrical, and arithmetical properties, thus enabling the nested coding and computing in the (bio)systems by geometry and resonance. The omnipresent fractal structural and dynamical organization, as well as the intertwining of quantum and classical realm in the physical and biological systems could be just the consequence of such coding and computing."

Reference: NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
http://Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Properties


Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration. I'd like to urge you then to please advise our Senate, Congress and President to expand our tax-payer funded resources for advance space exploration.
 

Craig Sedok

Member
I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.


This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

Twelve men to write a book. This sounds like months in the making. I believe god is just some big parachute of light to emblazon the world. He will. And if there is noone like him, why does we all care? Science. Physics. Math. Deuteronomy. 12 or 24. Take your pick
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.

This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.

What "evidence" could you possibly accept?

1. Using the scriptures of a particular religion doesn't prove anything to outsiders of the religion, unless maybe you cite pure philosophy or logic from said scripture.
2. If science theory were acceptable as proof, this forum would have long since been closed from issue answered.
3. Same for philosophy or conventional logic.
4. Forums by their very design mean that threads become buried once agreement is reached. In other words, forums are set up to encourage disagreement, and once someone says something that people can't argue with, they either ignore it, the article gets buried, or they tell you "well that wasn't REAL proof."

So, lacking philosophy, logic, religion, or science, I guess you could use analogy?

Okay. So I walked into a Chinese restaurant in ghetto area Richmond VA, and there was a fishtank. While waiting for my food, I watched the fishtank. The tank had a wallpaper on the outside, looking like an underwater setting. The glass was pretty reflective so it probly couldn't see outside the tank. If it looked the other direction all it could see is the scene. I was pretty hypnotized by this so I kept staring for like an hour while my Pepper Beef was getting ready. (Truman Show)


I can only look up to the horizon maybe 11 miles tops because of the "curvature" of the Earth. But this explanation literally makes no sense. Why? Because we can supposedly see a few light years away, seeing stars. If the distance was really as you say, this would mean at a high altitude, you would be above the curve, and be able to see past the horizon to the stars. But despite being in planes and on top of mountains, I cannot remember ever seeing stars during broad daylight. In actual fact, it feels more like two layers of filters. Speaking of airplanes, when going from the West Coast to China or India you have to head north. Almost like at some point, the maps cease to be accurate, and the navigation adjustment is to account for the warped space involved. And no, I don't believe the Earth is flat. There are definite hemispheres. But I don't believe our perspective makes sense otherwise.

Why can't we see God if he is real? Maybe because we are inside the fishtank. We therefore must infer the existence of God not with our eyes (which cannot see beyond the horizon), but with secondary observation, looking at patterns.

Here's another one. Cat food.

dry-cat-food1.jpg


Look at how brightly colored it is, right? Well, try eating it as a human. It's not just bland either. All cat kibble tastes identical. In other words, a person, outside the perspective of a cat senses an experience that it probably senses as nearly as distinct as the difference between a steak and chicken.

Why do I bring this up, you ask? Well, how can any of us be sure that all matter isn't the same dreamstuff molded into different shapes and colors and flavors?
 

magid

Member
I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora and i am reading the Avesta, and doing research about the Vedas. In the Quran there is are verses about science which i wonder how they could be written 1400 years ago. These verses are being proved to be true in just the last 200 years.

For example, a prophecy about humanity going into space, how mountains move, how milk is made in the blood, how the human being is being formed in the belly, that ants have a complex way of communication like humans, black holes, ozone layer etc.

This fuels my faith in the Holy Books, because the Quran also confirmed the Gospel, the Psalms and the Tora. It speaks about Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Eliah, Jona, John, Jesus Christ etc.
And the Quran also said that there are more Messengers and Prophets send to humanity which are not mentioned.
So this helps in putting faith in the other Holy Books..

But i really am hungry for truth about God. If i think about how i am alive, it makes me think twice, how can there be life etc. And how can there be so much Truth and Science in the Holy Books. (Not talking about how the denominations fabricated stuff and followed their own way, im talking about the Books themselves, i do not follow any organised religion) This to me indicates that there might be a God. Who am i after all, i was born on earth, it's not like i have memories about a 'previous life' in the presence of God or something.

So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible?

PS: Please lets obey the rule that we keep it on-topic. And use as much science as possible. Lets not post things like 'it's only faith, or i have faith etc.' and lets keep it on-topic please. We can learn from each others experiences and knowledge.
I fully agree with you. Within its text, words, and sentences noble Quran contained a lot of amazing scientific clues. It is mainly a guidance book rather than science book. Look for this verse in Quran taking about this meaning " We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.Noble Quran-Surat Fussilat [verse 53] ''
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I disagree with you about the Quran in 55:33. It's a prophecy, that humanity will go into space with might.
Excuse me, but the Egyptian myth is that the sun is symbol for the sun god Re’s boat that move across the sky, from horizon to horizon.

In the Old Kingdom period, it was believed that when the king died, resurrected and ascended, he would join Re in his journey as one of the new crew member on Re’s boat.

If that silly verse (55:33) an indication of space travel, then it has already been done by the Egyptians. But 55:33 isn’t a prophecy about space travel, nor is the Egyptian myth of Re.
 

W3bcrowf3r

Active Member
Excuse me, but the Egyptian myth is that the sun is symbol for the sun god Re’s boat that move across the sky, from horizon to horizon.

In the Old Kingdom period, it was believed that when the king died, resurrected and ascended, he would join Re in his journey as one of the new crew member on Re’s boat.

If that silly verse (55:33) an indication of space travel, then it has already been done by the Egyptians. But 55:33 isn’t a prophecy about space travel, nor is the Egyptian myth of Re.

Quran 55:33 prophecied that humanity would go into space. Today we see NASA etc. doing that.

I am not talking about a boat you enter when you are going to sleep.., and the story was that only the King of Egypt could do that.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I like the science in the Quran which was Revealed 1400 years ago.

Where is this evidence that the Greek did talk about atoms? Greek 'gods' and Greek science are two different topics. I only know the Greek Gospel, which i also believe in, the New Testament is written originally in Greek. But your statement about Greek idols and science.. hmm.. is there any Book written by them ('the greek Gods') which states it's a Revelation from God?
I don’t remember their names, but two Greek philosophers hypothese the atom as early as the 6th century BCE, over a thousand years before Muhammad’s Qur’an.

Anyway, nothing in the Qur’an (passages or verses) have any scientific or mathematical merit.

For ancient science is all about EXPLAINING a specific phenomena, and
(A) either performing testable solution, like experiments (evidence-based),
(B) or providing mathematical solution (proof-based),
(C) or ideally, all of the above (A & B).​

The Qur’an and all known scriptures don’t provide such EXPLANATIONS, nor verifiable EVIDENCES or solvable mathematical model/solution (PROOF).

For modern science, science placed far more emphasis on evidence-based testings, thus following the procedure of Scientific Method, as a mean of verifying and validating hypotheses and theories.

While mathematical equations (proofs) are important to both experimental and theoretical science, they are not foolproof or error-free, since mathematicians are humans and can make mistakes. Plus mathematicians and theoretical physicists (again, being humans) can be biased.

Evidences, observations and experiments provided the level of objectiveness, not found proof-based models.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
You might say the body and being is conceptual in its formation;

Legs and feet are to stand and walk,
Arms and hands are to carry and use things,
Eyes are to see where you are going,
Ears are for hearing whats around you,
Mouth is for food, and language,
Mind is for reasoning, and finding solutions to problems,
Mind is for experience, and creativity,
Mind is for understanding the environment and other creatures,
Heart is to care for things and matters and peoples.
Will is for choosing and committing actions,
Will is for desire, and delightfulness,

All these things of body and being serve purposes. Purposes are of a mind. That mind would be god.

You might say fruits and vegetables are a provision to survive creatures in an environment suited for life at a basic level of life and death survival.

If all this is true, then what are god's motives for creating creatures in this environment?

Also, you might say music is an invention purposed to be to bring pleasure to the senses. Rhythmn, harmony, ensemble.

You might say that function, organization, systems, and selection entails a mind behind it.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So what about you? Can we talk about why you think there is a God? And can you be as scientificul as possible..?

Look at something. Anything. Touch it.
And now decide how your chosen thing got where it is.
Continue this line of thought back to the beginning of everything as far as we know....... so far.

And now ask yourself, is/was there a reason for the beginning to have happened? Do scientists accept that the initiation of everything was caused somehow? Do scientists seek for a reason for the Big Bang?

I feel sure that once found, that reason, that scientists will perceive more, much more, beyond that.

And so the Reason for the existence of all matter and energy, and all that is in between, and everything else......... you could call that God. And you know that it exists because scientists are seeking it.
:)
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Quran 55:33 prophecied that humanity would go into space. Today we see NASA etc. doing that.
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL 55:33
O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ].

So I guess Allah gave NASA permission to go to the moon. That's very nice of him.

For context, here is more of 55: My comments in red

6. And the stars and the trees prostrate themselves.

I've never seen a star prostrate itself

14. He created man from hard clay, like bricks.

15. And created the jinn from a fusion of fire.

Yes folks, we are not alone - we share the world with Jinn

17. Lord of the two Easts and Lord of the two Wests.

Now you know, there are two Easts and two Wests according to magic compasses made by Allah.

19. He merged the two seas, converging together.

20. Between them is a barrier, which they do not overrun.

He merged them but there is a barrier between them. If there is a barrier, then they are not merged.



33. O society of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the bounds of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and pass. But you will not pass except with authorization.

35. You will be bombarded with flares of fire and brass, and you will not succeed.

But we did succeed.





The following is all about getting the virgins. Sorry ladies, nothing for you unless you are interested in lounging on brocade with maidens.

37. When the sky splits apart, and becomes rose, like paint.
39. On that Day, no human and no jinn will be asked about his sins.
41. The guilty will be recognized by their marks; they will be taken by the forelocks and the feet.
50. In them are two flowing springs.
52. In them are fruits of every kind, in pairs.
54. Reclining on furnishings lined with brocade, and the fruits of the two gardens are near at hand.
56. In them are maidens restraining their glances, untouched before by any man or jinn.
58. As though they were rubies and corals.
60. Is the reward of goodness anything but goodness?
62. And beneath them are two gardens.
64. Deep green.
66. In them are two gushing springs.
68. In them are fruits, and date-palms, and pomegranates.
70. In them are good and beautiful ones.
72. Companions, secluded in the tents.
74. Whom no human has touched before, nor jinn.
76. Reclining on green cushions, and exquisite carpets.

 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Look at something. Anything. Touch it.
And now decide how your chosen thing got where it is.
Continue this line of thought back to the beginning of everything as far as we know....... so far.

And now ask yourself, is/was there a reason for the beginning to have happened? Do scientists accept that the initiation of everything was caused somehow? Do scientists seek for a reason for the Big Bang?

I feel sure that once found, that reason, that scientists will perceive more, much more, beyond that.

And so the Reason for the existence of all matter and energy, and all that is in between, and everything else......... you could call that God. And you know that it exists because scientists are seeking it.
:)

Ask a few scientists and they will say cause and effect is passe in the lab. They will claim time and consciousness are persistent illusions. And space is not a fundamental feature of existence.

Anything they will say it seems to defeat natural intuition.
 
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