How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[CG Didymus]

Well I think their "prophet" is too ridiculous for
enough followers to do other than embarrass
themselves.

And isn't it amazing how that goes? One religion says that their guy, Jesus, floated off into space. Another religion says how ridiculous that is, but naturally everything in their religion makes so much sense.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And isn't it amazing how that goes? One religion says that their guy, Jesus, floated off into space. Another religion says how ridiculous that is, but naturally everything in their religion makes so much sense.

And I do not think that she thinks too much of that religion either.

One cliche about religions that you should remember: Only one of them can be right, but all of them can be wrong.

It is when people take their religious beliefs too seriously that others can see how they are clearly wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

One cliche about religions that you should remember: Only one of them can be right, but all of them can be wrong.

or one of them can be right for the present age while the others were right for the age in which they were revealed.

It is when people take their religious beliefs too seriously that others can see how they are clearly wrong.

Why wouldn't people take their religious beliefs seriously if they believe they are the truth from God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

or one of them can be right for the present age while the others were right for the age in which they were revealed.

No, they may be helpful. That does not make them right.

Why wouldn't people take their religious beliefs seriously if they believe they are the truth from God?

Because that is almost always when others can show that they are wrong. It is suicidal for a religion to do that.

 

[CG Didymus]

Allegory or embellishments in the Bible and NT stories? Did Lot's wife turn into a pillar of salt? Did Jonah get swallowed by a big fish? Did Jesus walk on water? Did he raise Lazurus from the dead?

For me, embellishments to a story makes much more sense. Assuming that the rest of the story is true... Lot leaves Sodom and Gomorrah and is told not to look back... his wife looks back and is turned into a pillar of salt. The lesson? Obey God.

With Jonah he's trying to get away from having to tell the people of Nineveh that God is going to destroy them. The lesson? You can't run away from God. God causes lots of things to happen until Jonah listens and obeys God.

Jesus and his supposed miracles? Can a normal human walk on water? No. Can a person that's been dead for a couple of days be brought back to life? No. Unless the person walking on water and bringing people back to life is the Son of God. Then everything is possible. And that's what the lesson is to those stories. Jesus is not an ordinary man. He is God's Son.

The Baha'is are stuck with an almost endless supply of Bible and NT stories that they have to invent some kind of allegorical meaning. And, unless the Baha'is think that the writers are the ones that made up the allegories, then it has to be God telling the writers when and how to write the allegory. But then God didn't officially "seal" up the meaning of those stories until he told Daniel? Wow!

 

[CG Didymus]

And I do not think that she thinks too much of that religion either.

One cliche about religions that you should remember: Only one of them can be right, but all of them can be wrong.

It is when people take their religious beliefs too seriously that others can see how they are clearly wrong.

They all want people to do certain things and believe certain things. And why should they do those things and believe those things? Because an invisible God said so. And there is evidence that such a God exists... His prophet said so.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, they may be helpful. That does not make them right.

I wonder which religion was "right" for any age?

Since they weren't written by the prophet himself, the story and teachings in all of them, prior to the Baha'i Faith, have things wrong with them. And that's according to Baha'i beliefs. They don't stand behind any Scripture of any religion, accept the Quran and their stuff.

The claim they used to give was that the "original" teachings of the prophet were true. But those "original" teachings don't exist.

So still, I'm going with that each people invented their religion and their Gods... along with some borrowing from the beliefs of some of the neighboring people.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, they may be helpful. That does not make them right.

How do you think you would know if they were right?

Because that is almost always when others can show that they are wrong. It is suicidal for a religion to do that.

How do you think others can show them they are wrong?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How do you think you would know if they were right?

You are not reasoning properly. We could probably never tell for sure if they were right. But we can know when they are wrong at times.

How do you think others can show them they are wrong?

Others can demonstrate that they are wrong, but they probably cannot be honest enough to understand that they are wrong. That is quite common among the religious.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are not reasoning properly. We could probably never tell for sure if they were right. But we can know when they are wrong at times.

True. For example, when they say dead people are going to come out of the ground and be reconstructed into another physical body and live forever on earth we know they are wrong, but their retort is that God is omnipotent so God can do anything, which to them means God can do anything I want Him to do.

Others can demonstrate that they are wrong, but they probably cannot be honest enough to understand that they are wrong. That is quite common among the religious.

True. See above.

 

[Subduction Zone]

True. For example, when they say dead people are going to come out of the ground and be reconstructed into another physical body and live forever on earth we know they are wrong, but their retort is that God is omnipotent so God can do anything, which to them means God can do anything I want Him to do.

I was thinking more along the lines of the self contradictions that one often runs into.

True. See above.

As to omnipotence and omniscience, if one understands them, and claims that God has those traits then God is to blame for everything.

 

[Aupmanyav]

She says when the Bible was written? How many different Gods and marriage laws were there then? No, her God's laws were only for the children of Israel. Baha'is talk as if their God's laws were universal. They never were. And even now, with Baha'is talk of world unity, they still say "God's" laws, the Baha'i laws, will only be for Baha'is.

Yeah, I do not need foreign Gods (they don't even have Goddesses), foreign prophets, foreign laws. I have enough of them. How can the universe function without Goddesses? Impossible. Where in the desert did the God of Abraham loose Asherah?

Kuntillet Ajrud Vase, Mother Cow with a calf too.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

asked and answered

hypothetically, if there is no creation, there is nothing immoral about God
hypothetically, if there is no agent creating, there is nothing immoral about the agent

He wasn’t originally a creator, but a war God or storm God or whatever. War is usually extremely immoral.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

How does that seem to be working out?

Is God not ruling and if He’s not in charge, why would we care about His opinions?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Not so much implying as flat out saying the obvious that God confirms.

And implied that Jehovah God was withholding good from His intelligent creatures.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Who wants an eternity with a God who didn’t comfort the suffering like Jesus promised?

That’s really a drop in the bucket, compared to God’s promise of everlasting life.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When I make a choice, I am choosing which of those storylines is "real" for me.

I don’t agree. We chose what our timelines made us choose.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is God not ruling and if He’s not in charge, why would we care about His opinions?

If God is ruling and if He’s in charge, why wouldn't we care about His opinions?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The author of a book knows the entire book

But the character can’t initially find the only two people in His back yard. The author might know but the narrator doesn’t.

 

[Ponder This]

Do you not have any agency and authority over what you believe? Are you a mindless robot that can't think for yourself?

Yes, you may choose to lie about what you believe or choose to be honest about it. And, yes, you can choose to trust a source of information or not.
I don't see how your philosophical musings on mindless robots are relevant (let alone accurate). Perhaps that's a topic for another thread?

You claimed that Christian concepts applied to all people, including non-Christians, and I pointed out they don't. No religion has authority over anyone who believs differently. The 9-11 hijackers are examples of people who believed their religious beliefs were absolute and could be acted on against others. I'll bet you disagreed with their mission doing God's will.

I think you may be confused. A Christian could very well believe that you are going to Hell because you reject God. Just because a Christian believes that you are going to Hell, doesn't mean that you have to believe it too.

Yet I have heard your fellow Christians insist I am bound for hell because I don't believe what they do. Why would they think that? Who told them that? They don't respect that I have no reason to think their beliefs are true, thus don't apply to me. It sounds to me like they are bothered I don't assign their beliefs credibility.

Some Christians being upset that you don't believe in God is very different from hijacking an airplane and flying it into a building.