How can you justify the sheer complexity that evolution would have to evolve?

[Sargonski]

So .. the next time someone tells you "I believe in "undefined" realize that responding back " I don't believe in undefined" is equally nonsensical.

I don't agree. If someone claims to believe in something that isn't defined sufficiently for me to understand it then I can confidently say that I don't believe in this something that hasn't been properly defined.

Nope .. you can not "Confidently" say you believe in anything .. True / False or otherwise.. on the basis of an undefined premise. The idea that one can have any confidence in anything on the basis of "undefined premise" is the self delusion I have been speaking of .. a belief based on fallacious foundation.

What is it that you do not believe in QM ? is it nothing = undefined .. or Something = God defined?

 

[YoursTrue]

Nope .. you can not "Confidently" say you believe in anything .. True / False or otherwise.. on the basis of an undefined premise. The idea that one can have any confidence in anything on the basis of "undefined premise" is the self delusion I have been speaking of .. a belief based on fallacious foundation.

What is it that you do not believe in QM ? is it nothing = undefined .. or Something = God defined?

Interesting thought, Sargonski. Some of us have to grapple with the basic thought.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Nope .. you can not "Confidently" say you believe in anything .. True / False or otherwise.. on the basis of an undefined premise. The idea that one can have any confidence in anything on the basis of "undefined premise" is the self delusion I have been speaking of .. a belief based on fallacious foundation.

What is it that you do not believe in QM ? is it nothing = undefined .. or Something = God defined?

I'm not stating that I confidently believe anything... but I can be 100% confident that I do NOT believe something that hasn't even adequately defined. There is no way that I can say that I believe that andergas exists if you do not provide me with an adequate definition of what andergas is, thus I can confidently say that I do not believe in andergas.

 

[blü 2]

What is a species?

A designation, authoritatively provided by the Linnaeans, for all the members of a particular sort of (in this context) living thing conforming to a particular general description and list of characteristics and often these days genetics, as that designation stands from time to time.

 

[Sargonski]

Interesting thought, Sargonski. Some of us have to grapple with the basic thought.

Well then grapple answer the question .. what is it that you disbelieve in ? Nothing .. or Something .. or something in between and how can you be confident that your answer is correct .. and not be engaging in fallacious self delusion ..

 

[YoursTrue]

Well then grapple answer the question .. what is it that you disbelieve in ? Nothing .. or Something .. or something in between and how can you be confident that your answer is correct .. and not be engaging in fallacious self delusion ..

I hope this helps to answer the question -- 2 Corinthians 4;18 - "As we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal."

 

[Sargonski]

I hope this helps to answer the question -- 2 Corinthians 4;18 - "As we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal."

Quoting Scripture !? ---- "Help me Jesus" - for the blind they do not see ! "

 

[McBell]

Well then grapple answer the question .. what is it that you disbelieve in ?

Why have you changed it from "do not believe in" to "disbelieve"?
Do you not know the difference?

 

[Pogo]

Why have you changed it from "do not believe in" to "disbelieve"?
Do you not know the difference?

I read these posts with a sense of disbelief and dismay.

 

[Sargonski]

Why have you changed it from "do not believe in" to "disbelieve"?
Do you not know the difference?

do you not know the difference .. LOL I changed it because there is no difference .. ha ha ha .... priceless self smackdown.

 

[McBell]

do you not know the difference .. LOL I changed it because there is no difference .. ha ha ha .... priceless self smackdown.

dictionary disagrees with you.
But hey, thanks for the info.

 

[McBell]

I read these posts with a sense of disbelief and dismay.

I find the "being so arrogantly wrong and proud of it" attitude fascinating to watch.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't buy into the nonsense that God or gods are meaningless concepts. They are among the most commonly used words in the English language, and everyone knows what they refer to. They occur as defined entries in every dictionary and encyclopedia. People argue incessantly over how to define them, because the existence of gods, not to mention the one and only God, is very much in question. Atheists are usually thought of as people that reject belief in gods. There is nothing mysterious in all this.

 

[Tomef]

There are 3 billion base pairs in the human genom(a cell) and around 30-40 trillion cells in a human each specialized for a specific function.

There are approximately 86 billions of neurons in the brain.

The eye has a cornea, iris, pupil, lens, retina, optical nerve, macula, fovea, Aqueous Humor, Vitreous Humor, Ciliary Muscles, sclera, Choroid and Conjunctiva to name a few. The eye can distinguish between 10 million colours.

The human gut is home to trillions of microorganisms, collectively known as the gut microbiome.

These are just a few incredible facts about the human body there are hundreds more.

This doesn't even touch on the origins of the first cell, first DNA, first multi cell etc etc

How can you expect anybody to believe that it was random mutations that ultimately created all of this, the complexity is ridiculous and there's no way all these complex organisms could have evolved to work together in harmony as they do?

You’re asking the wrong kind of question, or to put it another way you’re asking silly, ill-considered questions. The way you approach this is no different to demanding to know why you have to grow a cherry tree from a seed, then prune it for a couple of years before you get any fruit, rather than having the fruit just called into existence. How can you imagine that you will understand anything by starting with questions that have no correspondence to the things they are supposed to address?

Why apply such a childish mode of thought to anything? There is evidence that evolution happens - what are the mechanisms? How does it work? How do I ensure that my cherry tree produces the most fruit? What are the mechanisms/how does it work? Those are useful questions.

 

[YoursTrue]

You’re asking the wrong kind of question, or to put it another way you’re asking silly, ill-considered questions. The way you approach this is no different to demanding to know why you have to grow a cherry tree from a seed, then prune it for a couple of years before you get any fruit, rather than having the fruit just called into existence. How can you imagine that you will understand anything by starting with questions that have no correspondence to the things they are supposed to address?

Why apply such a childish mode of thought to anything? There is evidence that evolution happens - what are the mechanisms? How does it work? How do I ensure that my cherry tree produces the most fruit? What are the mechanisms/how does it work? Those are useful questions.

There are some things that even science cannot adequately explain or duplicate. I'm not saying that means God exists, but then it doesn't mean that God does not exist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There are some things that even science cannot adequately explain or duplicate. I'm not saying that means God exists, but then it doesn't mean that God does not exist.

Well, there are questions for which the answer is unknown. So in a sense, you can believe one way or another and so can I.

 

[George-ananda]

How can you expect anybody to believe that it was random mutations that ultimately created all of this, the complexity is ridiculous and there's no way all these complex organisms could have evolved to work together in harmony as they do?

I have to agree that the effect of greater intelligence is far more believable than simple mechanistic properties producing such complexity. Not to mention the challenge of seeing how consciousness could arise from all that,

I have come to think the 'Consciousness is Fundamental and the material universe is a derivative of consciousness' view makes the best sense of the data. And my beliefs are actually for reasons even beyond the complexity argument. And my belief in Nature Spirits fostering life and evolution or whatever term is just part and parcel of my overall beliefs.

 

[Tomef]

There are some things that even science cannot adequately explain or duplicate. I'm not saying that means God exists, but then it doesn't mean that God does not exist.

But what does one have to do with the other? Whether or not one of the many gods people started writing about at some point, very late in human history (so far) happens to have somehow become real doesn’t have anything to do with ToE or other scientific investigations into how things work.

 

[Sargonski]

dictionary disagrees with you.
But hey, thanks for the info.

No it doesn't .. and no thanks for posting false nonsense.

Post the dictionary definition that disagrees me. and disagrees with me on what BTW ? There is no difference between "do not believe in" and "disbelieve in" in context of belief in God. This nonsense a moronic semantic joke in desperate attempt to deflect from the foundation of your beliefs being based on logical fallacy .. using a term of which no definition has been given .. ?

Now go and find a valid argument - support the claims you make .. Donut

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I have to agree that the effect of greater intelligence is far more believable than simple mechanistic properties producing such complexity. Not to mention the challenge of seeing how consciousness could arise from all that,

I have come to think the 'Consciousness is Fundamental and the material universe is a derivative of consciousness' view makes the best sense of the data. And my beliefs are actually for reasons even beyond the complexity argument. And my belief in Nature Spirits fostering life and evolution or whatever term is just part and parcel of my overall beliefs.

Well, I don't in a sense believe one way or another for what objective reality really is.
So there are at least 3 positions in play and not just 2.