How can you tell if a Prophet is true?

[ppp]

It's NOT only the texts now, nor has it ever been.

In James Michener's novel, The Source, the very first "god" was depicted to have come from a family being spared by a rushing river flood. Humankind "feels" the unknown power and humbly is in awe. Any man that comes along and talks and lives in a way to enhance this innate awareness and stirs the wonder will be listened to. But we can enhance that awareness and stir the wonder without words, written or spoken. That is the power of the Spirit.

That is the power of human imagination. Michener's imagination was a product of his time.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think myself and others have already pointed out to you in this thread that the prophets supposedly did miracles.

Yes I know that but none of us living now have seen those miracles so they are only proof for those who were present at the time. And what about Figures like Buddha and others did they perform miracles also? So early belief of all religions you are saying is based on miracles?

 

[Spice]

That is the power of human imagination. Michener's imagination was a product of his time.

It was just a depiction, and probably much closer to the truth than Golding's depiction in The Inheritors.

 

[ppp]

It was just a depiction, and probably much closer to the truth than Golding's depiction in The Inherentors.

Is there any reason to think you are capable of making any such evaluation?

 

[Spice]

Is there any reason to think you are capable of making any such evaluation?

Have you read The Inheritors? Science has come a long way from Golding's era.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Were these Educators from another world that they possessed a power of influence no human has yet achieved? They were persecuted, imprisoned even crucified yet their cause spread all over the world. Who has ever been able to achieve such feats? Buddha changed Asia, Muhammad transformed the Middle East, Christ the west and Europe. Krishna - India. There is no civilisation existing today which has or is not continually being influenced by these Figures. To say they just had charisma is a huge understatement.

Aren’t we looking at a unique Being possibly not from this world? And aren’t these Figures we call prophets or educators very easily distinguished from the everyday person? They all championed a cause that spread all over the world and affects the majority of humanity today in our daily lives.

So, an ordinary man not a great educator or prophet but these Beings? They are anything but ordinary. No one is going to erect a temple in my name when I die and pay homage to me for a thousand years so why them?

 

[ppp]

Have you read The Inheritors? Science has come a long way from Golding's era.

Is there a point here? You are citing works of fiction.

 

[CG Didymus]

When Jesus walked upon the earth He was surrounded by disciples who were fishermen mostly and couldn’t read or write. So how did they know He was the Lord?

Same with most religions. The followers weren’t really educated but they seemed to be able to recognise the truth.

How is this so and why were the priests and educated class unable to recognise the Prophet?

What criteria, not using any scripture would determine whether a prophet is true or not?

This is a thread mainly for religionists to share, explain and explore how the first disciples of their religion came to know the truth without having knowledge of scriptures or even no basic human learning. It is said the disciples of Jesus couldn’t count to 10.

What is this "truth" that you think they recognized?

People, even very well educated and smart people, have fallen for some charismatic person. Trouble is... it ends up being some cult religion. I'd use Scientology as an example, but, I don't know, do Baha'is believe L. Ron Hubbard was a true prophet? A minor one that is... Not a major one like the Baha'i prophet.

 

[Spice]

Is there a point here? You are citing works of fiction.

Are there any non-fiction authorities on the gods of cave men? You're the one who boarded this boat.

 

[The Hammer]

Are there any non-fiction authorities on the gods of cave men? You're the one who boarded this boat.

Please don't use the term "cave men", we don't like it typically.

 

[ppp]

Are there any non-fiction authorities on the gods of cave men? You're the one who boarded this boat.

I don't see any authorities on the matter at all. And @Spice, this "boat" is a Wendy's.

 

[Sargonski]

Saying “hello” after been crucified days earlier might be somewhat convincing to a disciple. It convinced Thomas… (or so the story goes)

Yeah .. that didn't happen in the first edition of the story .. There is no "Zombie Jesus" wandering around in the flesh after death .. the story ends with an empty tomb . and the reader is left to wonder what happened to the Body .. and the women told no one. "The End" No Poking things through the holes in the dead corpse of Jesus wandering around talking to people.

 

[ppp]

Saying “hello” after been crucified days earlier might be somewhat convincing to a disciple. It convinced Thomas… (or so the story goes)

Why should the story be considered anything more than a story?

 

[Sumadji]

Yeah .. that didn't happen in the first edition of the story .. There is no "Zombie Jesus" wandering around in the flesh after death .. the story ends with an empty tomb . and the reader is left to wonder what happened to the Body .. and the women told no one. "The End" No Poking things through the holes in the dead corpse of Jesus wandering around talking to people.

Not exactly.

The young man in the tomb says to the women: “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him, as he said to you.”
Mark 16:6-7

And Paul was writing about the resurrection before the gospels. He met with Peter and John and with James, Jesus's own brother. Obviously they believed in the resurrection or Paul would not have written about it. Paul was the first Christian writer.

(edited to add)

 

[1213]

I’m not saying they were stupid I just want to know how they recognised Jesus without the scriptures.

Ok, I think they recognized and believed, because things went as Jesus said. I also believe they knew what was said about coming Messiah and saw Jesus fitting to that and therefore believed.

 

[sayak83]

If you have been near a real 'Prophet', you actually feel the energy coming out of him and going into you. There is no mistaking this feeling/experience (Insensitive people who are steeped in materialism will feel nothing.) In his absence this conscious feeling is gone. Recognizing such a person is actually very easy.

I am a little skeptical of this.
Taylor Swift has the same effect over the Swifties.

 

[firedragon]

Yes.



This is a very good question! Thanks for presenting it.

Mainly, I have to nurture a sincere desire to understand the consequences of actions and omissions to the widest range and most detailed understanding that I can.

I have concluded a few years ago that morality is an emergent property that arises from the meeting of rationality with empathy.

It is therefore limited by one's reason and ability to understand and empathise with others, resulting in having as one of its very earliest directives is that it must strive to question and improve on its own understanding.

In a nutshell, my (moral) epistemology is, by necessity, perenially provisional and keeps expanding and becoming more nuanced, complex and ambitious to the best of my abilities.

As a consequentialist, how do you know the consequence of an occurrence today in 100 years or a millennium?

 

[loverofhumanity]

What is this "truth" that you think they recognized?

People, even very well educated and smart people, have fallen for some charismatic person. Trouble is... it ends up being some cult religion. I'd use Scientology as an example, but, I don't know, do Baha'is believe L. Ron Hubbard was a true prophet? A minor one that is... Not a major one like the Baha'i prophet.

I think that before theological disputes broke out, love ruled, but later, theology became the new God and they abandoned the teaching to love one another and divided into sects. The original law and commandment was always love. With Islam it was supposed to be peace but sects also soon arose.

We only recognise the Founders of the major religions as Manifestations.

 

[LuisDantas]

As a consequentialist, how do you know the consequence of an occurrence today in 100 years or a millennium?

Now, this is a far weaker question. I do not. Nor do you.

If you are trying to present such predictions as a part of useful criteria, I will simply disregard your claim. Past history, including from adherents of the Abrahamics, clearly shows those to be far, far less than useless.

 

[Sargonski]

Not exactly.

The young man in the tomb says to the women: “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him, as he said to you.”
Mark 16:6-7

And Paul was writing about the resurrection before the gospels. He met with Peter and John and with James, Jesus's own brother. Obviously they believed in the resurrection or Paul would not have written about it. Paul was the first Christian writer.

(edited to add)

Yes .. Exactly -- No body .. no stories of the corpse of Jesus wandering around after death .. and no one knows what happens to the body or that it was even gone from the tomb because the women say nothing ... why did you leave out the last line ?

6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”

8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[a]
--------------

If all you have is this story to go on .. you might assume that Jesus was resurrected as was preached by Jesus .. but not as a corpse wandering around talking to people .. a spiritual resurrection and who knows what happened to the Body .. creamated like the Phoenix or some such thing .. others would not make this assumption .. the body is gone .. grave robbers or some other political action .. We just don't know what happens to Jesus .. Do the women ever find Jesus ? .. we are not told . .. the body is Gone .. the women say nothing ..

Then you talk about Paul . in such a strange way .. as if people knew his writings to effect the reading of Mark .. when the name of the Game is to use only Mark . as this story could well have been around prior to Paul's writings getting out to the Jews .. The original Story does not come to us from Paul .. a person who never knew Jesus .. did not become a christian until years after his death .. and a fellow who was not a member of .. nor had much to do with the Church of Jerusalem .. which is where the original story comes from .. the first version .. if you like . and Paul is not an author of the other versions.

However .. if we are going to take Paul's perspective into account .. Paul likens the ressurection of Jesus to his Vision .. a Spiritual .. as opposed to a Physical Resurrection which ends up corroborating the account in Mark .. Paul knows of no stories of the corpse of Jesus wandering around after death either . Sorry ... no smoking Gun has yet arrived .. which begs the question .. When did it arrive ?

The Gospel of Matt is written ~ 80-100AD - and in here we have the first stories of Jesus wandering around after death .. having folks poke the holes and such. -- now .. this does not mean that these stories were in the earliest copies of Matt .. .. and the reason we question this is because Pope Clement ~96-100AD .. knows nothing about any physical resurrection stories .. despite going on at length in his letters about "Proof of the Resurrection" .. but somehow failing to give the smoking gun .. and he was familiar with Matt .... or at least some passages from a proto-Matt .. so to Clement the Resurrection is Spiritual -- like Paul's' vision .. akin to sightings of the virgin Mary in the Clouds .. or a voice from heaven .. otherwise known as "hearing Voices"

Ignatius ~ 110AD is the first confirmation we get by early church fathers of these stories of Jesus wandering around in the flesh after death .. around the time when John is being composed.