How could a sensible person believe in the bible?

[UnTheist]

Which says that the fool has said in his heart there is no God.

You're a fool for denying the existence of the almighty Allah. How dare you rebel against Him!

 

[joeboonda]

I don't believe you're correct about that.

Maybe a sensible person could pick up some pointers from members on how they can still be sensible and "believe" in the Bible. The title is a question.

No problem.

 

[joeboonda]

Who told you this? This is simply a lie. I don't particularly care either way whether you personally believe in evolution or not, it doesn't affect me.
However, for both our sakes you shouldn't be spreading this particular fantasy - for mine because it causes confusion about evolution, and for yours because it makes you look foolish.

We have no dinosaur bones at all, not a single one. What we do have is a large collection of rocks which continue to hold the shape and structure of a dinosaur bone that once existed. None of these rocks hold blood cells, living or dead. On very rare occasion small protein fragments may survive, but these in no way constitute any form of living tissue.
I strongly suggest you visit a museum joeboonda, just so you can verify for yourself that fossilised bone is rock, not calcified tissue.


Nearly, replace the word uncle with great-grandfather x10 to the power of 9 and you'd be nearer the mark.

I don't understand why certain people find the existence of their ancient ancestors so offensive. The fact that everyone alive on Earth today can trace their lineage back 3.5 billion years, and can claim the most amazing life forms of this planet as distant relatives should be a source of great pride. It certainly is to me.

I'd much rather recognise that my distant ancestors were simian, rather than pretend they were a handful of clay.

The info was in a video collection I have but here is a link also:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/blood.asp

I have also seen photos of human footprints in dino footprints.
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/dinosaurs.asp

There are several places where these occur, just have to google them. You will find articles for and against as usual.

McFall Trail (UTP) -4

Human foot highlighted

Dino foot highlighted

 

[joeboonda]

You're a fool for denying the existence of the almighty Allah. How dare you rebel against Him!

Don't even get me started, lol.

 

[UnTheist]

Don't even get me started, lol.

That's what I thought

 

[Booko]

A lot of scientists recognize from fossils of human footprints in dinosaur footprints among other things that man did indeed coexist with dinosaurs.

Joe, at the rest of taking this entire thread off track I'd be interested in knowing the name of just paleontologist that would accept the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. I'm not asking for cites -- if you can give me a name I'll go looking further on my own. Thanks.

Now try try and get back on the subject here, sorta, Joe, if you came across incontrovertible evidence that humans and dinosaurs did not coexist and that the world is billions of years old (say you had access to a time machine and could see it directly yourself), would that mean you couldn't believe the Bible was true any more?

 

[Booko]

How could a sensible person believe in the bible?

The title of this thread is actually insulting to all who do believe in the Bible, fyi.

Joe, it's no less insulting to say that everyone that doesn't believe in God is a fool.

 

[Booko]

On very rare occasion small protein fragments may survive, but these in no way constitute any form of living tissue.

Correct me if I'm wrong Halcyon, but those protein fragments are found in teeth, if I'm rememering right.

I strongly suggest you visit a museum joeboonda, just so you can verify for yourself that fossilised bone is rock, not calcified tissue.

You'd better be specific to exclude the new Creation Museum.

I don't understand why certain people find the existence of their ancient ancestors so offensive. The fact that everyone alive on Earth today can trace their lineage back 3.5 billion years, and can claim the most amazing life forms of this planet as distant relatives should be a source of great pride. It certainly is to me.

I'd speculate it has to do with the belief that animals don't have souls and we do, or that somehow if we acknowledged that we once looked simian, somehow that would make us a "lesser" species.

Maybe it's a kind of species xenophobia.

I'd much rather recognise that my distant ancestors were simian, rather than pretend they were a handful of clay.

Well, ultimately our ancestors, like we ourselves, were a handful of clay. We turn back into clay soon enough too.

 

[Booko]

The info was in a video collection I have but here is a link also:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i4/blood.asp

I have also seen photos of human footprints in dino footprints.
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/dinosaurs.asp

There are several places where these occur, just have to google them. You will find articles for and against as usual.

Yes, there have been a number of notorious FAKES of this sort, Joe.

Show me where human and dinosaur fossils are found in the same strata, or even close, and then you would have something.

 

[Bishka]

Yes, there have been a number of notorious FAKES of this sort, Joe.

Show me where human and dinosaur fossils are found in the same strata, or even close, and then you would have something.

Why is it so hard to believe that the earth could be older then 6,000 year old? Some people .

 

[Booko]

Why is it so hard to believe that the earth could be older then 6,000 year old? Some people .

I honestly don't know, Becky. I've been trying to understand why for, hm, probably about 4 decades by now, and still haven't gotten there. Perhaps it's something I'll never understand, but still I keep trying.

 

[joeboonda]

Joe, at the rest of taking this entire thread off track I'd be interested in knowing the name of just paleontologist that would accept the idea that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. I'm not asking for cites -- if you can give me a name I'll go looking further on my own. Thanks.

Answers In Genesis is a place I enjoy. You may find some things from paleontologists there.

[/quote]Now try try and get back on the subject here, sorta, Joe, if you came across incontrovertible evidence that humans and dinosaurs did not coexist and that the world is billions of years old (say you had access to a time machine and could see it directly yourself), would that mean you couldn't believe the Bible was true any more?[/quote]If you were taken through time and shown creation and a young earth would that mean you couln't believe Origin of the Species anymore?

 

[joeboonda]

Joe, it's no less insulting to say that everyone that doesn't believe in God is a fool.

No big deal.

 

[joeboonda]

Yes, there have been a number of notorious FAKES of this sort, Joe.

Show me where human and dinosaur fossils are found in the same strata, or even close, and then you would have something.

The rebuttal of these tracks is being made without pictures of even a single track. All they provide is their theory of what is there without providing a single bit of actual evidence. Yet the main site supporting the human track theory has picture after picture of tracks, many of which are high resolution images.
Taylor Trail
McFall Trail
The Ryals Track
The Morris Track
So who's engaging in wishful thinking and an unwillingness to face the evidence? Certainly not those who support the human track theory. They place the evidence in full view for everyone to see, whereas those claiming that they are not human tracks only give their theories without presenting any evidence. If any one is unwilling to face the evidence, it is those who claim that these are not human tracks.

 

[joeboonda]

I honestly don't know, Becky. I've been trying to understand why for, hm, probably about 4 decades by now, and still haven't gotten there. Perhaps it's something I'll never understand, but still I keep trying.

Really? Fooled me. Hey, I am not a big creationist expert so excuse me if I don't jump on this debate. We can all study this just fine on our own and come to our own conclusions, I really don't care.

 

[ChristineES]

This whole thread is "if you believe in God you're stupid" and "if you don't believe in God you're stupid".

Why can't a person who believes in God believe that there were dinosaurs, too? As far as I know, people and dinosaurs did not exist together.

The truth is that even though I believe in Genesis, I don't think it was all literal, but a parable. We don't know if the "day" mentioned in the beginning of Genesis was a literal day or if it was just called a day. A "day" in this sense could mean a thousand, a million, or even a billion years.

I was told and I don't know if it is true was that Charles Darwin was not an atheist.

 

[UnTheist]

I was told and I don't know if it is true was that Charles Darwin was not an atheist.

Apparently he was agnostic, according to Wiki.

 

[Booko]

Answers In Genesis is a place I enjoy. You may find some things from paleontologists there.

That's one of the links you left earlier, yes? OK...I will check that out.

Now try try and get back on the subject here, sorta, Joe, if you came across incontrovertible evidence that humans and dinosaurs did not coexist and that the world is billions of years old (say you had access to a time machine and could see it directly yourself), would that mean you couldn't believe the Bible was true any more?

If you were taken through time and shown creation and a young earth would that mean you couln't believe Origin of the Species anymore?

Yup.

You haven't answered my hypothetical, though. It really was a serious question. I often disagree with you, but you have never given me a reason to disrespect you or believe that you are insincere, you know.

I don't know why you think my attitude towards Darwin's theories is one of "belief" Joe.

Belief is more an area of metaphysics and not physics. Evolutionary theories have moved along a bit since then.

It's like someone referencing Newton's theories in a discussion on quantum mechanics.

 

[Booko]

So who's engaging in wishful thinking and an unwillingness to face the evidence? Certainly not those who support the human track theory. They place the evidence in full view for everyone to see, whereas those claiming that they are not human tracks only give their theories without presenting any evidence. If any one is unwilling to face the evidence, it is those who claim that these are not human tracks.

Joe, you can't determine whether tracks are fake or not by looking at a picture.

You have to do a physical examination of them, including work in a chem lab. And Analytical Chemistry is something I do know about, having done more than a little work in that area. I really do know mass spec from a Latin Mass.

 

[Booko]

Really? Fooled me. Hey, I am not a big creationist expert so excuse me if I don't jump on this debate. We can all study this just fine on our own and come to our own conclusions, I really don't care.

Yes, I actually do try to understand, Joe. I'm truly mystified that there are people who never question biology when it leads to heart surgery and cancer treatments, but think the same methods are bogus when it involves evolutionary theory.

I don't get what any of it has to do with the truth of the Bible anyway. Genesis tells us that God created everything, He created humans to be more than animals, and He wants a relationship with us. Isn't that kinda the point, and not how a "day" gets defined before the earth was even created to define a "day" as a 24-hour period?

Why do I need to use the Bible as a science text? Isn't that why God gave us brains, so we could go do our own work and write them?

Where the rubber meets the road is how we use scientific knowledge. We can use it for destruction or construction. That, to me, is where God enters the picture in a big way.

What have I said here that you would disagree with, Joe? And honestly, can you explain to me where I've gotten something wrong? Goodness knows, I make no claims to infallibility. I might've made a mistake somewhere or missed some key information.