How could Adam know?

[Zadok]

Burning the Bible symbolically, I said.
The Bible is not the Book of God, but the weapon of religious men, who have used it to destroy the lives of uncountable numbers of innocent people.
Even today!
The Bible has much INNOCENT blood on its cover and its pages.
It is a bloody book.
The Bible is an IMMORAL BOOK.
Take that bloody book away and see humanity become better!

A book has no ability to be moral or immoral. Like many other things what is moral or immoral is what "people" do.

I am not sure if we remove the concepts of "do not steal, do not commit adultery and do not bear false witness against others" will do a lot to improve mankind's relationships and bring about a more enlightened society.

Zadok

 

[Riverwolf]

Burning the Bible symbolically, I said.

Same thing.

The moment you start burning one book, symbolically or otherwise, you bring us closer to Fahrenheit 451. If you haven't read that book, go read it before you respond to this post.

Don't bother controlling what we read. If I want to read something from the Biblical canon, I will.

The Bible is not the Book of God,

IT'S NOT A SINGLE BOOK!

but the weapon of religious men,

Like the spoon is the weapon of the Sheriff of Nottingham?

I read the Biblical canon and can get lots of wisdom out of it. I'm a Hindu.

who have used it to destroy the lives of uncountable numbers of innocent people.

No, they used their political power and desire to keep it. Religion was and is just the scapegoat.

Even today!
The Bible has much INNOCENT blood on its cover and its pages.
It is a bloody book.

IT'S A LIBRARY OF BOOKS, NOT ONE BOOK! And by the way, lots of old classics are bloody; heck, lots of NEW classics are bloody. The Hobbit is bloody, and that was meant for children. Grimms' Fairy Tales are very dark and violent, yet are meant for children. Should THOSE be burned, as well?

The Bible is an IMMORAL BOOK.

Moby Dick is all about whaling, a very immoral act. Does that stop it from being a literary classic?

Take that bloody book away and see humanity become better!

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. There is no grounds to believe that removing the Biblical canon, which, by the way, is the very BASIS on which Western culture is founded, will make humanity better. In fact, before you start trying to destroy our history, why don't you try working on foreign outsourcing? Or how about putting Burger King and McDonalds out of business so that American food no longer resembles garbage cans and rainforests can start growing back?

The problem isn't religion: it's politics.

By the way, do you believe that there's a time and a place for everything?

If you answered yes, then you believe something that was in the Tanakh.

 

[djewleu]

Yes, the Bible is not a single book.
"The Bible" actually never existed before printing was invented.
That is, it did not exist for 1500 years after Pentecost!
The Bible is not a book: it is a dangerous and lethal weapon.
MILLIONS have been persecuted and their lives disrupted because of those upholding this weapon. It is a book that deserves to be burnt!
At least symbolically.
I have done that several times, symbolically, almost religiously.
I have burnt VERSIONS of that inexistent holy book.
"The Bible" does not exist!
What you have in your hands is a version of an imaginary "Original"!
Don't try to throw sand in people's eyes.

 

[Pacificus]

You're just getting mad djewleu. Think about it. The Bible is not responsible for the deaths of millions. People are responsible. Extremists will be found in every society.

 

[djewleu]

You're just getting mad djewleu. Think about it. The Bible is not responsible for the deaths of millions. People are responsible. Extremists will be found in every society.

Of course, I agree!
The Book is not a book: it is a dangerous WEAPON; but more recently, it has metamorphosed into a COMMERCIAL item you get to sit on a shelf to tell your friends something they probably already knew.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, the Bible is not a single book.
"The Bible" actually never existed before printing was invented.
That is, it did not exist for 1500 years after Pentecost!

The Tanakh was canonized not long after Jesus supposedly lived. The New Testament was canonized a few centuries later.

The Bible is not a book: it is a dangerous and lethal weapon.

So are eating utensils, pencils, pens, plugs, matches, candles...

MILLIONS have been persecuted and their lives disrupted because of those upholding this weapon.

No, it was because of upholding political power.

It is a book that deserves to be burnt!
At least symbolically.
I have done that several times, symbolically, almost religiously.

Then how are you any different than the extreme Christians who burn books that they disagree with? I see no difference.

How can a book "deserve" to be burnt? Are we holding inanimate objects to human standards, now? Are we going to now start blaming the chair that falls from underneath us and start beating it up for being defective?

I have burnt VERSIONS of that inexistent holy book.
"The Bible" does not exist!

The Biblical canon exists, whether or not you pretend it doesn't.

What you have in your hands is a version of an imaginary "Original"!

What I have in my hands currently is Everett Fox's "The Five Books of Moses" and Richard Elliot Friedman's "Commentary on the Torah." These are simply commentated Torahs which are far superior to the poor common translations.

Don't try to throw sand in people's eyes.

Doesn't look like I have to in this case...

 

[Riverwolf]

Of course, I agree!
The Book is not a book: it is a dangerous WEAPON; but more recently, it has metamorphosed into a COMMERCIAL item you get to sit on a shelf to tell your friends something they probably already knew.

You have not provided any support for your claim that the Biblical canon is a weapon, and therefore the argument is useless until you do. All you've done is rant about stories contained in the Torah, which you skimmed through with your own bias as a filter.

And, by the way, a very good friend of mine is an atheist. I'm a theist. I do not even try to remotely persuade him to theism, as doing so would break our friendship.

Oh, and by the way, the Biblical canon is public domain, and most of the major versions are available online for free. You don't have to fork over the seven bucks needed for that New International Version; it's available at Biblegateway.com.

It's only when you want the COMMENTARIES that you need to pay. And it's worth it.

 

[Mr Cheese]

kittens are lethal weapons you know

 

[Cobblestones]

I am not sure if we remove the concepts of "do not steal, do not commit adultery and do not bear false witness against others" will do a lot to improve mankind's relationships and bring about a more enlightened society.

"Enlightened"? Doesn't enlightenment require some kind of standard? Otherwise, it's merely anarchy, right?

 

[Cobblestones]

You have not provided any support for your claim that the Biblical canon is a weapon, and therefore the argument is useless until you do.

Try going to any Protestant, Bible thumping church. There's some proof for ya right there. As long as people claim "thus sayeth the Lord" based on the Bible texts, it can be used as a weapon. It is not, in and of itself, a weapon any more than a bread knife is. It all depends on who is wielding it and with what intention.

 

[Riverwolf]

Try going to any Protestant, Bible thumping church. There's some proof for ya right there. As long as people claim "thus sayeth the Lord" based on the Bible texts, it can be used as a weapon. It is not, in and of itself, a weapon any more than a bread knife is. It all depends on who is wielding it and with what intention.

THAT'S an argument! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

Now, I've been to a United Methodist Church, and there's nothing like that. However, I've talked to and seen Christians who act like that. The Biblical canon is not a weapon in itself; however, I will not deny that several of its teachings can be used to justify things that it teaches against.

The irony of this entire situation is that this new guy is acting just like them; the only difference is the actual belief; the passion is the same, the general goals appear to be the same, and the ambition is the same.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Try going to any Protestant, Bible thumping church.

Do you know what selection bias is?

 

[Cobblestones]

Originally Posted by Cobblestones
Try going to any Protestant, Bible thumping church.

Do you know what selection bias is?

I was raised in that type of church so I know what I'm talking about. This is why I said that it all depends on who is wielding the Scriptures and with what purpose. I'm sure you see the same thing in varying sects of Judaism, Islam, and Hinduism.

 

[Riverwolf]

I was raised in that type of church so I know what I'm talking about. This is why I said that it all depends on who is wielding the Scriptures and with what purpose. I'm sure you see the same thing in varying sects of Judaism, Islam, and Hinduism.

It's pretty rare in sects of Hindu religions, but it does exist. :sad4: