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How could time have always existed?

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
 
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
Time is a man made creation. Just because the sun goes up and down doesn't mean time is there whether we make or track it or not. Existence is there and we create time to track and be on the same page and make sense of our world
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.

Depends on your definition of time. Times arrow, is simply a way of understanding that one thing happens after another.
I see it as a way of observing entropy, this incudes the times arrow scenario.
Or perhaps years, months, days, hours, minutes since an arbitrary beginning.

In any case time could be infinite into the past and infinite into the future.
Or it could be that "big bang" started time and is infinite into the future.

It's one of those shrug, who knows things.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
Time only exists because intelligence needs it. No one has ever gone into the past or the future we only have the now. Intellectually we need patterns to understand and survive, time is the mechanism used by us to link past to now or project now to future. While time is necessary for our survival, it is not a thing and didn't exist before intelligence.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.

The statement "Time has always existed" is true if the past is finite too.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
There was a time when there was no time?

A time when there is no time describes a lack of sequenced events? If so, in theory, then there could be an event which includes all the other events, and itself. The events would be stacked up like a deck of cards instead of progressing one after another after another.

This "stacked deck of cards" would be a domain / realm where all is concurrent and omnipresent. It's a version of heaven.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Time is that which allows events to continuously happen. I don't think we can account for the property that allows sequenced events. Since there is a difference between past, present, and future, and we do age, I have to say time exists. As far as I know science has to measure other things to get measures of motion. But what allows motion to occur in series, that can't be measured. If it can be measured, how so?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
Your perception of time is actually based on space-time and not just pure time. This confusion is created by clocks. Time moves to the future, yet clocks cycle like a wave and repeat. We are born, age and die, yet clocks act like reincarnation, with a new midnight each day. That is not how pure time propagates.

A wave is distance and time connected as wavelength and frequency; reflection of space-time. It is not just time. Space-time is like two people tethered in a three legged race, where the team is only as fast as the slowest member. In space-time, time is tethered to space and is limited by space. Clocks need to be compact in space, so time in this limited space, curves onto itself as a wave. The day and the year are based on the movement of the earth and sun in space. This is not pure time.

people-doing-three-legged-race_1308-17356.jpg


Say we could cut space-time, and remove the tether, allowing both space and time to act as two independent variables. Now both are faster than when they were tethered in the clumsy three legged race of space-time. If you could move through space untethered to time, you could be omnipresent. The speed of light does not apply, since speed or velocity is the equation; v=d/t. Since we have untethered them we got rid of the tether of the division sign, now we have just d and t with no division and nothing called velocity. Acceleration is d/t/t or space-time plus some extra independent time; force.

Omnipresent is not possible with the limits imposed by the tethers of space-time. If you could move in time untethered to space, you would get effects like the laws of physics the same in all references. This universal nature of independent time, is not restricted to any given space, but has a type of simultaneity, like a coordinated huge universe, in spite of the limits imposed by the speed of light in space-time; omniscience. Concepts like God were the ancient way to describe independent space and time; another realm where the impossible, in space-time, becomes possible

The untethering of space-time was proven by the experiments of Heisenberg; Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

The uncertainty principle, also known as Heisenberg's indeterminacy principle, is a fundamental concept in quantum mechanics. It states that there is a limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties, such as position and momentum, can be simultaneously known. In other words, the more accurately one property is measured, the less accurately the other property can be known.

Positon is about space, while momentum needs time to be expressed. If we assumed just space-time, these two variables should both be known, one from the other, but this was not the case at the quantum level. Space=position and momentum=time, were appearing to be acting like they are more independent of each other and not exactly tethered.

Science screwed the pooch on this one, thinking the erroneous conclusion of indeterminacy justified the new dice and cards science. In reality these experiment, showed an inverse relationship, between independent space and time. which was logical and not random. The golden age of physics disappear, when the dice and card illusion grabbed hold; biggest blunder of science. This is because they did not understand time all by itself, detached from space-time. They thought that ment probability in space-time.

What that inverse relationship tells us is space and time, when detached and independent, become interchangeable. As one get more accurate; gains, the other become less so; loses, but in a type of conservation sort of way. Tethering as space-time makes them appear more distinct and connected. Omnipresence causes all the time to convert to space; t=0.

inverse-relationship-y-k-x1-l.jpg
 

Eddi

Christianity
Premium Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.

It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
God is eternal

Which is to say he is timeless

But we humans need our conception of linear time in order to function as humans

That's what I think anyway
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
Depends on your definition of time. Times arrow, is simply a way of understanding that one thing happens after another.
I see it as a way of observing entropy, this incudes the times arrow scenario.
Or perhaps years, months, days, hours, minutes since an arbitrary beginning.

In any case time could be infinite into the past and infinite into the future.
Or it could be that "big bang" started time and is infinite into the future.

It's one of those shrug, who knows things.
That would still mean there would have to be an infinite amount of causes prior to an infinite chain of events. Which makes climbing up to reach the surface, starting at the bottom of a bottomless pit, even more concrete. We could never arrive at present day.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
The statement "Time has always existed" is true if the past is finite too.
Yes, that make sense. But that’s semantics :p What I meant is time, or existence, extending infinitely into the past.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't believe time could have always existed. It needs a beginning point.
Why?
It can make sense to think of an infinite value when looking forward at something from a specific point (the present) but it could never make sense to begin at an infinite value and arrive at a finite value. E.g. We can imagine the past having an endless amount of "before's" but we could not arrive at present day that way. It's like "climbing up from the bottomless pit" You must've come from somewhere, otherwise you cannot arrive at another point.
The concepts of infinity (& various forms of it)
have long baffled many. The reason I'm not baffled
is that I accept it, rather than attempt to relate it to
the reality I experience.
This is even more useful with quantum mechanics,
which makes no sense whatsoever. It just is what it is.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That would still mean there would have to be an infinite amount of causes prior to an infinite chain of events. Which makes climbing up to reach the surface, starting at the bottom of a bottomless pit, even more concrete. We could never arrive at present day.

Assuming time existed before the big bang then yes, that's the nature of infinity.

Count the present day as just another event caused by yesterday.
 
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