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How did the Egyptians build the pyramids?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Egyptologists have the crazy notion that teams of bumpkins tied themselves to stones and dragged them up ramps. This is not a staircase or a highway ramp with lots of traffic but an imaginary construct that lacks evidence and constrains every worker from being efficient. It's simple nonsense to suppose there was no other way to do it but the impossible. Of course each Egyptologist sees himself holding the whip rather than being one of the poor slobs straining on the baking pyramid in 120 degree heat.

If there were any evidence for ramps I'd still be quite certain they didn't use ramps but all the evidence says stones were pulled straight up the sides of the steps. what the hell do Egyptologists think the steps were used for? Decoration? Camouflage?

Seriously why would they build steps and then put ramps on them. Are we to believe the workers needed a break every 500'?
The simple physics of ramps, counterweights and pullies works, and the physics of your alternative fails. to move large blocks up the sides of the pyramids, The Meidum pyramid used ramps like found in the quarry.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What would you call aggregate limestone mixed with cement and dry lime and then cast in a mold?
concrete. Dry lime is CaO, Limestone by definition is a Calcium Carbonate precipitate that forms n shallow seas and oceans,

Concrete does not contain Calcium Carbonate. Dolomite contains a mix of Magnesium Carbonate and Calcium Carbonate.


Limestone is a type of carbonate sedimentary rock which is the main source of the material lime. It is composed mostly of the minerals calcite and aragonite, which are different crystal forms of CaCO₃. Limestone forms when these minerals precipitate out of water containing dissolved calcium. Wikipedia
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
concrete. Dry lime is CaO, Limestone by definition is a Calcium Carbonate precipitate that forms n shallow seas and oceans,

Concrete does not contain Calcium Carbonate. Dolomite contains a mix of Magnesium Carbonate and Calcium Carbonate.


Limestone is a type of carbonate sedimentary rock which is the main source of the material lime. It is composed mostly of the minerals calcite and aragonite, which are different crystal forms of CaCO₃. Limestone forms when these minerals precipitate out of water containing dissolved calcium. Wikipedia

Correct, concrete doesn’t contain calcium carbonate.

By weight, this mixture, once set, would be mostly calcium carbonate and calcium hydroxide. The hydroxide becomes carbonate over time as part of the lime cycle, hardening as it does.

This “stone” is as dense and hard as natural limestone.
 

Lisa Sims

Not BORN AGAIN Yet, But I'm On My WAY!
It was constructed at the order of Pharaoh Khufu sometime around 2560 B.C.E.,
Hi, S__

This is an interesting topic. Thank you for starting it.

I just wanted to put my two cents in...

In Jesus' Second Coming Messages From Spirit, 1914 to present, There is a short message from one Anaxylabis, "the designer of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh." 7/22/1915

In it, he states that he built it under the direction of "the great Egyptian king, Monyabasis the Great, who lived many centuries, before Rameses, who is credited with its construction."

He states, "...when the Egyptian Book of the Dead was written I had lived as a spirit many thousands of years."

He promised to return to detail the design of the Great Pyramid, but I did not find where he has done so as of yet.

Love and blessings...
Lisa
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Mud bricks are not stones blocks. Not comparable.
The Meidum pyramid was mad of Stone blocks,
Again. You will not find an engineer who will support your theory in the context of the Giza pyramids.
ALL of my references. The following article is from an engineering publication and basically agrees with me concerning the engineering and construction of the pyramids,


The problem is no one has come up with a practical alternative for engineering and construction methods, Though @cladking proposes a more supernatural mythical alternative which lacks any support or evidence. Something like the "Gods did it,"
 
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GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
The Meidum pyramid was mad of Stone blocks,

ALL of my references. The following article is from an engineering publication and basically agrees with me concerning the engineering and construction of the pyramids,

It’s not an engineering publication
The Meidum pyramid was mad of Stone blocks,

ALL of my references. The following article is from an engineering publication and basically agrees with me concerning the engineering and construction of the pyramids,


The article is sparse in specifics or references, simply saying ramps means nothing.

There is in fact very little available on any methods to move massive blocks.


The problem is no one has come up with a practical alternative for engineering and construction methods, Though @cladking proposes a more supernatural mythical alternative which lacks any support or evidence. Something like the "Gods did it,

You have even admitted that casting was used, so I don’t know why you insist on the ramp/block theory.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Wrong. Mud mustabas
Your using a shotgun approach of your opinions without references

The Meidum Pyramid was built using limestone blocks, which were quarried locally and from nearby quarries:


  • Limestone
    The main body of the pyramid was built from locally quarried limestone. White limestone was used to create a smooth exterior.


  • Tura limestone
    The outer casing of the pyramid was made from Tura limestone blocks from nearby quarries.
None of which support your theory of pullies and counter weights.


While there is no definitive proof, many researchers believe that ancient Egyptian pyramid builders likely used a system involving basic pulley mechanisms to lift heavy stones up ramps, potentially aided by counterweights to help manage the load and make the lifting process easier, although the exact design of such a system remains debated due to the lack of concrete evidence.

This engineering publication addresses the problem of a primitive Egyptian pulley


The problem remains of what are the practical alternatives considering the technology of the ancient cultures,

There is a great del of researchon simple engineering techniques of ancientcultures like thefollowing"


1 Introduction
Thehistory of pulleys and cranes dates back totherstcivilizations.Theconceptofcranes
originated from pulley systems.Inarchaeology and cultural anthropology, among the number of criteria that must hold for the recognition of sedentism are building houses and trans-porting undressed stones (Bar-Yosef, 1998). For all construction and transportation reasons,
as well as water extractions from wells, pulleys and cranes have been used since the early
times of history. Pulleys and cranes are considered as machines used for lifting heavy loads
with or without providing gain in force.

Scientists share the opinion that primitive forms of pulleys, pulley systemsand cranes
were used whilebuilding huge constructionsanderecting monoliths in the ancient world,
such as Stonehenge in England, Göbekli Tepein Türkiye, Pyramids in ancient Egypt and
Mesoamerica as well as in many other civilizations all aroundtheworld. Pulley systems
are also used for various domestic reasons in the ancient world, such as olive oil extractions

Primitive engineering is more reasonable logical explanation of human inventiveness for megalith structures than Gods running round the world building monuments to glorify their existence,
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
Your using a shotgun approach of your opinions without references

The Meidum Pyramid was built using limestone blocks, which were quarried locally and from nearby quarries:


  • Limestone
    The main body of the pyramid was built from locally quarried limestone. White limestone was used to create a smooth exterior.


  • Tura limestone
    The outer casing of the pyramid was made from Tura limestone blocks from nearby quarries.

Where is your source???


While there is no definitive proof, many researchers believe that ancient Egyptian pyramid builders likely used a system involving basic pulley mechanisms to lift heavy stones up ramps, potentially aided by counterweights to help manage the load and make the lifting process easier, although the exact design of such a system remains debated due to the lack of concrete evidence.

Correct. No evidence. Nor can modern engineering provide and definitive answer!

This engineering publication addresses the problem of a primitive Egyptian pulley


The problem remains of what are the practical alternatives considering the technology of the ancient cultures,

There is a great del of researchon simple engineering techniques of ancientcultures like thefollowing"


1 Introduction
Thehistory of pulleys and cranes dates back totherstcivilizations.Theconceptofcranes
originated from pulley systems.Inarchaeology and cultural anthropology, among the number of criteria that must hold for the recognition of sedentism are building houses and trans-porting undressed stones (Bar-Yosef, 1998). For all construction and transportation reasons,
as well as water extractions from wells, pulleys and cranes have been used since the early
times of history. Pulleys and cranes are considered as machines used for lifting heavy loads
with or without providing gain in force.

Scientists share the opinion that primitive forms of pulleys, pulley systemsand cranes
were used whilebuilding huge constructionsanderecting monoliths in the ancient world,
such as Stonehenge in England, Göbekli Tepein Türkiye, Pyramids in ancient Egypt and
Mesoamerica as well as in many other civilizations all aroundtheworld. Pulley systems
are also used for various domestic reasons in the ancient world, such as olive oil extractions

Primitive engineering is more reasonable logical explanation of human inventiveness for megalith structures than Gods running round the world building monuments to glorify their existence,

You need to read your sources.

The earliest record in Ancient Egypt for pulleys is circa 1900BCE, 700 years after the Pyramids of Giza.

You are being stubborn and ignoring what you have already accepted.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It’s not an engineering publication
IT was an engineering publication, Your being combative and selective in your responses and NOT presenting viable alternatives. Most references described the dominant construction of pyramids were STONE BLOCKS. Yes mud bricks were used , but NOT for structural support.

I gave other engineering sources you ignored.
The article is sparse in specifics or references, simply saying ramps means nothing.

There is in fact very little available on any methods to move massive blocks.




You have even admitted that casting was used, so I don’t know why you insist on the ramp/block theory.
Casting was used for "some" blocks, I gave references that the dominant use of stone blocks in pyramid construction.

You have failed to address the the references of the use of primitive engineering techniques as pulleys around the world, and persist in stonewalling without viable alternatives
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
\IT was an engineering publication, Your being combative and selective in your responses and NOT presenting viable alternatives. Most references described the dominant construction of pyramids were STONE BLOCKS.

Casting was used for "some" blocks, I gave references that the dominant use of stone blocks in pyramid construction.

You have failed to address the the references of the use of primitive engineering techniques as pulleys around the world, and persist in stonewalling without viable alternatives



The Construction of the Pyramid of Meidum Construction of the Pyramid of Meidum - Trips in Egypt The Pyramid of Meidum was made up at the beginning of eight levels, but you can see today only three layers. The first level is the underground chamber, which housed the pharaoh’s burial tools and also his possessions. The second level is the base of the pyramid itself, which is made of limestone blocks and mud bricks. The third level is the step pyramid which was made of six stepped layers. The fourth and final level is the true pyramid, which is made of limestone and is the only part of the pyramid that is still standing today. The Meidum Pyramid is also unique in its design, as it is one of the first true pyramids in history to include a curved surface. The design of pyramid of Meidum is thought to have been designed to align with the stars of the northern hemisphere, making it an impressive feat of engineering. The Pyramid has a small temple attached to the eastern side which is 65 meters high. The Pyramid has a burial chamber, an inner chamber, and many other chambers that were used for ritual purposes. The height of the Pyramid is 65 meters and its base is about 144 meters or 275 cubits. The entrance of the Pyramid is in the north-south, and it is about 20 meters above the level of the ground. The steep descending passage is 17 meters, which leads to a horizontal passage. The burial chamber measures 2.65 meters, which is very small. The chamber had not been for any burial. The stepped Pyramid stages E1 and E2 are very similar in their construction, as it is likely to stage E2 was built after E1 was completed. There is a chapel that measures 9 meters, and it was built against the face of the east. The traces of the wall measure 218 meters surrounding the complex. The final smooth stage E3 was made from flat horizontal courses with larger and finer blocks of limestone.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member

Key Takeaways

  • The Egyptian pyramids are the last remaining of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
  • Archaeological evidence shows that the pyramids were built without sophisticated mechanical tools, with builders learning from each monument to refine techniques.
  • The pyramids demonstrate the Egyptians' extraordinary skills in mathematics, astronomy, logistics and advanced engineering.
The Egyptian pyramids, represented most famously by the pyramids at Giza, are perhaps the most enduring and iconic vestige of the ancient Egyptian civilization. How the pyramids were built, however, remains a source of intense speculation among historians, archaeologists and engineers.

The scale and precision of the pyramids demonstrate the Egyptians' extraordinary skills in mathematics, astronomy, logistics and advanced engineering. Unfortunately, the Egyptians did not devote the same level of effort to documenting their planning and construction processes. Much of what we know about how the pyramids were built, therefore, comes from observations made and artifacts unearthed by archaeologists at Giza and other Egyptian pyramid sites.

Lessons From History

To understand how the pyramids were built is to understand the history of engineering in the Old Kingdom of Egypt, a period spanning 2575 to 2134 B.C.

The three major pyramids at Giza were designed and built to serve as tombs, respectively, for Egyptian pharaohs Khufu, his son Khafre, and Khufu's grandson, Menkaure, between 2540-2460 BC, explains engineer Craig B. Smith in his book "How the Great Pyramid Was Built." These structures represent the pinnacle of Egyptian pyramid building, but their stature as engineering wonders is built on a foundation of lessons learned from the construction of earlier, less famous pyramids.

Advanced Engineering

One of the earliest Egyptian pyramids, for example, is the Step Pyramid begun by Pharaoh Djoser in 2620 B.C. at Saqqara. Its series of stepped, concentric platforms represented the first significant architectural departure from early Egyptian tombs, which featured flat, slightly raised platforms known as mastabas, according to Smith.

Another major step forward in the history of engineering came with the pyramid at Meidum begun by Pharaoh Sneferu in 2570 B.C., Smith details. It was the first pyramid to incorporate corbelled ceilings in underground chambers, an approach that afforded elegant, arched ceilings. Unfortunately, this pyramid, like the Step Pyramid, achieved its sloping exterior shape with courses of inwardly leaning stones, an engineering approach that would prove untenable.

A More Level Approach

The Bent Pyramid, begun by Pharaoh Sneferu in Dahshur in 2565 B.C., added several critical chapters to the history of engineering, Smith recounts. Its site consisted of loose, sandy soil, a foundation that provided inadequate support for the heavy structure. Predictably, the pyramid began to sink as construction proceeded, a result of using inwardly leaning blocks on an unstable foundation. To reduce stress on the structure, the pyramid's architects and builders reduced the slope of its exterior sides by 10 degrees, which created a "bent" appearance for the upper two-thirds of the structure.

Serendipitously, this structural resolution produced the most significant breakthrough in how the pyramids were built: New courses of blocks (for this and all future pyramids) would be laid horizontally to reduce stress on the pyramid's inner core. And the pyramids' smooth, angled sides would be achieved using horizontal courses of stone finished with angled faces.

Rules to Build By

The Red Pyramid, begun in 2560 B.C. by Pharaoh Sneferu, marked the zenith of engineering lessons learned. It would serve as a prototype for the Great Pyramid, the first pyramid at Giza. It also codified the following lessons for pyramid building, as laid out by Smith:

  • Build the pyramid on solid rock to ensure adequate support for its structure.
  • Use precise measurements (square, plumb) to maintain the pyramid's shape.
  • Place the burial chamber within the pyramid, not in the ground under the pyramid.
  • Place masonry courses horizontally to better distribute the loads.
  • Use large blocks on the lowest levels to create an accurate and stable base. Use smaller blocks on higher levels as they will be easier to place.
  • Use corbelled ceilings to create spacious, dramatic rooms, while providing the structural strength required.
  • Select a pyramid angle that minimizes labor and maximizes height.
  • Finish the pyramid with fine white limestone to make it visible from great distances.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No. About 5% of the Great pyramid at the very bottom is living stone ie-carved in place.

The bulk of the pyramid is cut out in the adjacent quarries.

Less than 2% of the weight of the pyramid came from the Turah Mines across the river and was mostly used for cladding.

Probably much less than 1% came from the granite quarries near Aswan.

There's very little other stone or materials within the Great Pyramid other than a mere 1000 tons of quartz sand near the entrance.
False, no references provided, I gave the references with details that the pyramids were built of quarried stone from known sources and dominant stone was the softer limestone quarried in the region and some was molded into a primitive concrete

You go play your mythical fantacies that the pyramids were built by Gods for their entertainment.
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member

The Construction of the Pyramid of Meidum Construction of the Pyramid of Meidum - Trips in Egypt The Pyramid of Meidum was made up at the beginning of eight levels, but you can see today only three layers. The first level is the underground chamber, which housed the pharaoh’s burial tools and also his possessions. The second level is the base of the pyramid itself, which is made of limestone blocks and mud bricks. The third level is the step pyramid which was made of six stepped layers. The fourth and final level is the true pyramid, which is made of limestone and is the only part of the pyramid that is still standing today. The Meidum Pyramid is also unique in its design, as it is one of the first true pyramids in history to include a curved surface. The design of pyramid of Meidum is thought to have been designed to align with the stars of the northern hemisphere, making it an impressive feat of engineering. The Pyramid has a small temple attached to the eastern side which is 65 meters high. The Pyramid has a burial chamber, an inner chamber, and many other chambers that were used for ritual purposes. The height of the Pyramid is 65 meters and its base is about 144 meters or 275 cubits. The entrance of the Pyramid is in the north-south, and it is about 20 meters above the level of the ground. The steep descending passage is 17 meters, which leads to a horizontal passage. The burial chamber measures 2.65 meters, which is very small. The chamber had not been for any burial. The stepped Pyramid stages E1 and E2 are very similar in their construction, as it is likely to stage E2 was built after E1 was completed. There is a chapel that measures 9 meters, and it was built against the face of the east. The traces of the wall measure 218 meters surrounding the complex. The final smooth stage E3 was made from flat horizontal courses with larger and finer blocks of limestone.


Accepting limestone was used for the Meidum pyramid, the sizes of the blocks appear far smaller than what has been used in Giza.

It also seems to have been built on top of a stone structure.
 

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member

Key Takeaways

  • The Egyptian pyramids are the last remaining of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
  • Archaeological evidence shows that the pyramids were built without sophisticated mechanical tools, with builders learning from each monument to refine techniques.
  • The pyramids demonstrate the Egyptians' extraordinary skills in mathematics, astronomy, logistics and advanced engineering.
The Egyptian pyramids, represented most famously by the pyramids at Giza, are perhaps the most enduring and iconic vestige of the ancient Egyptian civilization. How the pyramids were built, however, remains a source of intense speculation among historians, archaeologists and engineers.

The scale and precision of the pyramids demonstrate the Egyptians' extraordinary skills in mathematics, astronomy, logistics and advanced engineering. Unfortunately, the Egyptians did not devote the same level of effort to documenting their planning and construction processes. Much of what we know about how the pyramids were built, therefore, comes from observations made and artifacts unearthed by archaeologists at Giza and other Egyptian pyramid sites.

Lessons From History

To understand how the pyramids were built is to understand the history of engineering in the Old Kingdom of Egypt, a period spanning 2575 to 2134 B.C.

The three major pyramids at Giza were designed and built to serve as tombs, respectively, for Egyptian pharaohs Khufu, his son Khafre, and Khufu's grandson, Menkaure, between 2540-2460 BC, explains engineer Craig B. Smith in his book "How the Great Pyramid Was Built." These structures represent the pinnacle of Egyptian pyramid building, but their stature as engineering wonders is built on a foundation of lessons learned from the construction of earlier, less famous pyramids.

Advanced Engineering

One of the earliest Egyptian pyramids, for example, is the Step Pyramid begun by Pharaoh Djoser in 2620 B.C. at Saqqara. Its series of stepped, concentric platforms represented the first significant architectural departure from early Egyptian tombs, which featured flat, slightly raised platforms known as mastabas, according to Smith.

Another major step forward in the history of engineering came with the pyramid at Meidum begun by Pharaoh Sneferu in 2570 B.C., Smith details. It was the first pyramid to incorporate corbelled ceilings in underground chambers, an approach that afforded elegant, arched ceilings. Unfortunately, this pyramid, like the Step Pyramid, achieved its sloping exterior shape with courses of inwardly leaning stones, an engineering approach that would prove untenable.

A More Level Approach

The Bent Pyramid, begun by Pharaoh Sneferu in Dahshur in 2565 B.C., added several critical chapters to the history of engineering, Smith recounts. Its site consisted of loose, sandy soil, a foundation that provided inadequate support for the heavy structure. Predictably, the pyramid began to sink as construction proceeded, a result of using inwardly leaning blocks on an unstable foundation. To reduce stress on the structure, the pyramid's architects and builders reduced the slope of its exterior sides by 10 degrees, which created a "bent" appearance for the upper two-thirds of the structure.

Serendipitously, this structural resolution produced the most significant breakthrough in how the pyramids were built: New courses of blocks (for this and all future pyramids) would be laid horizontally to reduce stress on the pyramid's inner core. And the pyramids' smooth, angled sides would be achieved using horizontal courses of stone finished with angled faces.

Rules to Build By

The Red Pyramid, begun in 2560 B.C. by Pharaoh Sneferu, marked the zenith of engineering lessons learned. It would serve as a prototype for the Great Pyramid, the first pyramid at Giza. It also codified the following lessons for pyramid building, as laid out by Smith:

  • Build the pyramid on solid rock to ensure adequate support for its structure.
  • Use precise measurements (square, plumb) to maintain the pyramid's shape.
  • Place the burial chamber within the pyramid, not in the ground under the pyramid.
  • Place masonry courses horizontally to better distribute the loads.
  • Use large blocks on the lowest levels to create an accurate and stable base. Use smaller blocks on higher levels as they will be easier to place.
  • Use corbelled ceilings to create spacious, dramatic rooms, while providing the structural strength required.
  • Select a pyramid angle that minimizes labor and maximizes height.
  • Finish the pyramid with fine white limestone to make it visible from great distances.

None of this information gives any idea about how they were constructed.



This person failed to recreate the pulley system.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Accepting limestone was used for the Meidum pyramid, the sizes of the blocks appear far smaller than what has been used in Giza.

It also seems to have been built on top of a stone structure.
The Meidum pyramid was smaller therefore smaller blocks. The trend was over time they pyramids were larger and the blocks were larger,

ALL pyramids are built on an inner stone structure of some sort where the rooms and tombs were located,. The references I gave supported all the pyramids were mostly built of stone blocks. The terraced nature of the inner core of pyramids made it easier to use ramps.

Technology and accuracy increased with time as the pyramids grew larger.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
You are wrong obviously. It is a construction material that anyone can Google to learn about.



Do you read your sources?

There is nothing about concrete, only soft and hard limestone.

The soft limestone isn’t soft, it just has a high clay content, which is separated when soaked in water. The aggregate is still limestone.
You are confusing geology with (material science?) construction material, To a geologist limestone is a stone formed in a particular way. Your reconstituted limestone no matter how close it seems to function or look is concrete, a combination of an aggregate (crushed limestone) and binder (burnt limestone). It is basically definitional.
 
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