How did we determine that God is the good one and Satan is the evil one?

[nazz]

Yes, I don't believe in any sort of demiurge figure. In terms of the wider views of the Cosmos, I would be a pantheist. I believe the universe creates and sustains itself.

Well I'm not sure I believe in any demiurge either. I think all the aeons (space-time dimensions) may have been a part of one original emanation. But I still consider myself a Gnostic because most of my ideas are closest to theirs.

But it is interesting what some scientific investigation is revealing in regards to the possibility of this universe being artificial. So I don't rule the idea of a demiurge out either.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well I'm not sure I believe in any demiurge either. I think all the aeons (space-time dimensions) may have been a part of one original emanation. But I still consider myself a Gnostic because most of my ideas are closest to theirs.

But it is interesting what some scientific investigation is revealing in regards to the possibility of this universe being artificial. So I don't rule the idea of a demiurge out either.

Artificial? What do you mean by that? I do think that reality primarily exists in our minds and that the universe is basically a Cosmic Mind itself, but I don't understand what you mean by "artificial".

 

[nazz]

Artificial? What do you mean by that? I do think that reality primarily exists in our minds and that the universe is basically a Cosmic Mind itself, but I don't understand what you mean by "artificial".

Artificial as in not natural. An intelligent creation. It's speculated it's like a computer simulation.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Artificial as in not natural. An intelligent creation. It's speculated it's like a computer simulation.

So you think we're living in a negative Matrix dreamed up by some sadistic entity?

 

[nazz]

So you think we're living in a negative Matrix dreamed up by some sadistic entity?

It's entirely possible.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's entirely possible.

Yes, it's possible. But that's not what I believe.

 

[nazz]

Yes, it's possible. But that's not what I believe.

Well as I say I don't either necessarily but I remain open to the possibility. It would explain many things. Things that make no sense from a naturalistic standpoint.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well as I say I don't either necessarily but I remain open to the possibility. It would explain many things. Things that make no sense from a naturalistic standpoint.

I just see it as unnecessary dualism and reactionary. I once entertained Gnostic thoughts but it's a bit depressing. Now I have a more positive view of the Cosmos and life.

 

[nazz]

I just see it as unnecessary dualism and reactionary. I once entertained Gnostic thoughts but it's a bit depressing. Now I have a more positive view of the Cosmos and life.

Hmm, I don't see it as depressing. Not if you accept there is a way out of this mess. I see it as simply the reality we are in, a world of continuing suffering.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hmm, I don't see it as depressing. Not if you accept there is a way out of this mess. I see it as simply the reality we are in, a world of continuing suffering.

Yeah, and what's the way out? To die and be absorbed into the Monad. That's not much of a difference with Christianity then.

I don't perceive life as only being suffering. The only time I fall into such negative thinking is when I'm going through a bout of severe depression and despair. I'm sorry that you feel that way.

 

[nazz]

Yeah, and what's the way out? To die and be absorbed into the Monad. That's not much of a difference with Christianity then.

Well, Gnosticism is a form of Christianity.

As for being absorbed into the Monad I don't know if that is the final goal but if it is I am sure it will be something quite wonderful.

I don't perceive life as only being suffering. The only time I fall into such negative thinking is when I'm going through a bout of severe depression and despair. I'm sorry that you feel that way.

I'm not saying it is all suffering. But suffering is definitely a big part of this existence. I think that's undeniable, no?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, Gnosticism is a form of Christianity.

As for being absorbed into the Monad I don't know if that is the final goal but if it is I am sure it will be something quite wonderful.

I meant mainstream Christianity.

I'm not a fan of being absorbed, obliterated or anything that destroys my autonomous Self.

I'm not saying it is all suffering. But suffering is definitely a big part of this existence. I think that's undeniable, no?

A part, but not all. There's also joy, wonder, awe, beauty, love, pleasure and happiness.

 

[nazz]

I meant mainstream Christianity.

I'm not a fan of being absorbed, obliterated or anything that destroys my autonomous Self.

Yeah, I understand. This comes up a lot in reference to many mystical systems. Back when I was into eastern religion I did not like the idea of nirvana as being absorbed into Brahman. But I think the idea is not properly understood. It would not be like obliteration of who you are but simply a change in one's identity. Becoming something much greater than what one currently is. I like the way the Sufis put it: it's not that the drop is absorbed by the Ocean but rather that the Ocean enters the drop.

A part, but not all. There's also joy, wonder, awe, beauty, love, pleasure and happiness.

Yes, of course. That to me are our inherent divine qualities. Even if there is a demiurge who created this universe he still worked with what existed and that originally came from the goodness of the Pleroma. So it still bears that imprint.

 

[Luke Morningstar]

God is wholeness. Eternity. Completeness. And the true beauty that exists in everything.

The devil, if that's a thing, opposes that. The devil is the emptiness, the moment, the imperfection, and the selfish destructive impulses that exists in everything.

Why is one good and another bad? Because we like stability. We like feeling complete. Being in the moment is hard. Being selfless is even harder. We create the good and evil definition. God and the devil both live in our hearts. When we focus inward, when we want to stay put instead of embrace the new moment. We answer to the devil. When we say it's too hard to love someone with a different religion, a different language, a different ideaology, or a different point of view, we are rejecting the idea of wholeness, of eternity, for the animal impulse to survive.

Good and evil are short hand for things that help vs things that hurt. They are illusions that we change when it suits us when we forget that.

 

[chinu]

@ How did we determine that God is the good one and Satan is the evil one?

Just because of their NAMES.

Just a question for you, Why can't Satan be God, and God be Satan ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, I understand. This comes up a lot in reference to many mystical systems. Back when I was into eastern religion I did not like the idea of nirvana as being absorbed into Brahman. But I think the idea is not properly understood. It would not be like obliteration of who you are but simply a change in one's identity. Becoming something much greater than what one currently is. I like the way the Sufis put it: it's not that the drop is absorbed by the Ocean but rather that the Ocean enters the drop.

That's interesting insight that I haven't really heard before. Thanks.

Yes, of course. That to me are our inherent divine qualities. Even if there is a demiurge who created this universe he still worked with what existed and that originally came from the goodness of the Pleroma. So it still bears that imprint.

I understand where you're coming from. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[nazz]

That's interesting insight that I haven't really heard before. Thanks.

You're welcome

Just to expand on that idea I wanted to share some recent insights I've had. Life has been slowly evolving on this planet for billions of years. While many living things lead solitary lives occasionally there emerges a social species who to one degree or another share a collective consciousness. I think this is especially true of human beings because our advanced communication skills. With the advent of the world wide web this consciousness has become global in nature. Right now it is necessary to use language--written, verbal, and non-verbal--to effect this communication but I do believe there are instances when such communication becomes more direct--thought to thought, mind to mind.

I think there is a path of evolution that leads to godhood open to all of us. I think in many ways our species is already there. Just think of the enormous power we wield over this planet and the other creatures who share it with us (unfortunately we often do not use our power wisely).

For me, the Pleroma is simply the collective consciousness of the most advanced beings that exist and it is possible for us to evolve to become a part of that. In that aeon (as I use the word) there is perfect direct communication between all members. There is perfect harmony as well. But each member is still an individual within that whole. The One is many, and the Many, one.

I understand where you're coming from. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

No worries. I strongly encourage disagreement as long as it is expressed in an amicable and respectful manner. I have learned much more over the years from those who disagree with me than from those who simply nod "yes"!

 

[Astravalon]

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]Artificial as in not natural. An intelligent creation. It's speculated it's like a computer simulation. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]This kind of gels with my own growing conviction that we come into this world voluntarily to have a wide range of experiences, from the good, to the bad, to the downright heartburn-inducing. I suppose a high-tech way of seeing the world as a stage and we the actors might be the computer-simulation idea; that the world's one giant MMORPG and we are the gamers. In the end, the game ends and we – our true, higher selves – step out of it without a scratch, even if the characters we played went through the ringer. We just brush ourselves off and chill out in Paradise for a bit before moving on to the next adventure in incarnation. [/FONT]

 

[nazz]

[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]This kind of gels with my own growing conviction that we come into this world voluntarily to have a wide range of experiences, from the good, to the bad, to the downright heartburn-inducing. I suppose a high-tech way of seeing the world as a stage and we the actors might be the computer-simulation idea; that the world's one giant MMORPG and we are the gamers. In the end, the game ends and we – our true, higher selves – step out of it without a scratch, even if the characters we played went through the ringer. We just brush ourselves off and chill out in Paradise for a bit before moving on to the next adventure in incarnation. [/FONT]

Yes, I have heard that theory and it is an interesting one.