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How do Baha'is and Ahmadi Muslims relate to each other?

duvduv

Member
It's an interesting question since both fit into the same category vis a vis being offshoots of Shi'ism and standing in contrast to canonical Sunni Islam.
How do they relate to each other, or how have they related to each other over the past 150 years?
Are they also both today merely international social service movements, the eastern version of the Salvation Army and the Unitarian church??
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
It's an interesting question since both fit into the same category vis a vis being offshoots of Shi'ism and standing in contrast to canonical Sunni Islam.
How do they relate to each other, or how have they related to each other over the past 150 years?
Are they also both today merely international social service movements, the eastern version of the Salvation Army and the Unitarian church??
Hello, there hasn't been any special relation, either special friendship or conflict between them. I hope that answers your question.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It's an interesting question since both fit into the same category vis a vis being offshoots of Shi'ism and standing in contrast to canonical Sunni Islam.
How do they relate to each other, or how have they related to each other over the past 150 years?
Are they also both today merely international social service movements, the eastern version of the Salvation Army and the Unitarian church??

Is how to begin a thread with over the top sarcastic trashing other religious beliefs in bold.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Hello, there hasn't been any special relation, either special friendship or conflict between them. I hope that answers your question.
Since they, I suppose, believe their founder has some special relationship with God, how do Baha'is feel about their founder?
 

duvduv

Member
Is how to begin a thread with over the top sarcastic trashing other religious beliefs in bold.
Excuse me, but making observations about the ideas of religious teachings is not called trashing. And if you'll notice I did not bold my opening posting of this thread.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Since they, I suppose, believe their founder has some special relationship with God, how do Baha'is feel about their founder?
It's mutually, 'We're right, they're wrong." I'm willing to bet on this, and I'm not a gambler.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Excuse me, but making observations about the ideas of religious teachings is not called trashing. And if you'll notice I did not bold my opening posting of this thread.

I bold it and it is belittling and trashing two, actually at least three, other religious beliefs does not contribute to the discussion. It would better to avoid this 'poison pen statement' and just ask statements about their belief differences.

I consider the Unitarian Universalists to be a very sincere and reasonable 'belief system,' and not just a 'social service movement.'
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Since they, I suppose, believe their founder has some special relationship with God, how do Baha'is feel about their founder?

The founder of every religion has a special relationship with humanity and our spiritual evolution. Virtually everyone believe that their belief is 'true' in one way or another. It depends on how 'true' and exclusive the belief system claims in relationship to those who believe differently.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It's mutually, 'We're right, they're wrong." I'm willing to bet on this, and I'm not a gambler.

The founder of every religion has a special relationship with humanity and our spiritual evolution. Virtually everyone believes that their belief is 'true' in one way or another. It depends on how 'true' and exclusive the belief system claims in relationship to those who believe differently. It sounds like you consider your belief pretty darn right.

You have already placed your bet on your own religious belief.
 
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arthra

Baha'i
It's an interesting question since both fit into the same category vis a vis being offshoots of Shi'ism and standing in contrast to canonical Sunni Islam.
How do they relate to each other, or how have they related to each other over the past 150 years?
Are they also both today merely international social service movements, the eastern version of the Salvation Army and the Unitarian church??

Ahmadis as I understand it are Muslims while Baha'i Faith is an independent religion.

Baha'is have their own calendar and Holy Days as well as different sites of pilgrimage.

The Baha'i Writings were revealed by the Bab (Siyyid Ali Muhammad) 1844 - 1850 and Baha'u'llah (Mirza Husayn Ali) 1853 - 1892 with authorized interpretations of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

See:

Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

You can learn more about the Baha'i Faith

What Bahá’ís Believe | The Bahá’í Faith

as well the Baha'i Faith section on this forum:

Baha'i Faith DIR
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The founder of every religion has a special relationship with humanity and our spiritual evolution. Virtually everyone believes that their belief is 'true' in one way or another. It depends on how 'true' and exclusive the belief system claims in relationship to those who believe differently. It sounds like you consider your belief pretty darn right.

You have already placed your bet on your own religious belief.

That's actually a misconception between paradigms. In Hinduism, many belief systems are considered valid, on par with each other. There is no compulsion to have one size fit all. Yes, my belief system works for me. But others are equally valid, and may well work for others, like Baha'i for you, or Amadhiya Islam for Paarsurrey. This core belief, in part, is what makes Hindus in general so tolerant.

So it's an extrapolation out from your own belief.

Very few people on this forum would know much about my belief at all. We don't share that much.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That's actually a misconception between paradigms.

Yes it is and the misconception of other paradigms also include misconceptions involving the Baha'i Faith. There is a wide range of the human view of the belief in what is true and exclusive of their belief system. and a biased position of one;s faith in respect to those who believe differently is the rule not the exception. In my view Jews, Christians and Muslims make the strongest claims of exclusiveness than other religions.

In Hinduism, many belief systems are considered valid, on par with each other. There is no compulsion to have one size fit all. Yes, my belief system works for me. But others are equally valid, and may well work for others, like Baha'i for you, or Amadhiya Islam for Paarsurrey. This core belief, in part, is what makes Hindus in general so tolerant.

This is a generalization that does not necessarily apply to any religion. There are, indeed, aggressive nationalist Hindus that have strong exclusive beliefs just like other religions.

Tolerance varies from the human perspective and is a poor measure of how tolerant a religion is as a whole.

So it's an extrapolation out from your own belief.

True, but this is a very human problem common to all religions including Hinduism, which like all religions considers their beliefs more true than other religions and even divisions within Hinduism

Very few people on this forum would know much about my belief at all. We don't share that much.

I believe this is a the same problem concerning the Baha'i Faith. I do not believe this problem is valid in describing one religion in respect to another based on the human perspective.

I still object to the original post citing a yes/no wager.
 
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Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
The founder of every religion has a special relationship with humanity and our spiritual evolution.
So what about so-called Hinduism, who are the founders of that "religion"? Or is there no religion where no true founder can be found?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
So what about so-called Hinduism, who are the founders of that "religion"? Or is there no religion where no true founder can be found?

So called 'Hinduism' is not really one religion. It is a general term referring to the the various spiritual traditions that originate from India.

I believe religion, from the Baha'i perspective, is the cyclic Revelation for all of humanity and in reality there is only one beginning the first Revelation when humans first became human. Symbolically in the Baha'i Faith Adam is the first to receive Revelation beginning every cycle of human history. Revelation Even in the Torah and Tanakh there is likely not one true founder, despite claims for Abraham and Moses. In Hinduism the inspired authors of the Bahad Vegetta and Krishna are part of the progressive Revelation in the various history of Hinduism like all religions going back Millennia of human history. In the Orient there is only nebulous records of the traditional founder of Taoism, Lao Tzu.

Also Revelation also takes place through the minds of humanity in the continuous evolving spiritual nature of humanity.
 
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duvduv

Member
Although the religion of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Mahdi/Messiah of the Ahmadi sect (which is sharply divided over the status of Ahmad) and the religion of the Baha'is of Mirza Hussein Ali the Mahdi of Baha'ism, are different from one another, it seems that the bottom line in this generation is the same for both (as apparently western-influenced pacifist movements), that both men were the promised deliverer to defeat the dajjil through the spreading of their teachings and ushering in the world of peace (which in 100 years has certainly not happened).
But in the case of Ghulam Ahmad, what was the reason the vast majority of Muslim authorities and the public rejected him? On what theological basis did they feel he was not the mahdi promised in Muslim tradition?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Although the religion of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Mahdi/Messiah of the Ahmadi sect (which is sharply divided over the status of Ahmad) and the religion of the Baha'is of Mirza Hussein Ali the Mahdi of Baha'ism, are different from one another, it seems that the bottom line in this generation is the same for both (as apparently western-influenced pacifist movements), that both men were the promised deliverer to defeat the dajjil through the spreading of their teachings and ushering in the world of peace (which in 100 years has certainly not happened).
But in the case of Ghulam Ahmad, what was the reason the vast majority of Muslim authorities and the public rejected him? On what theological basis did they feel he was not the mahdi promised in Muslim tradition?

Their striking similarity may well be an indicator of why they don't relate to each other much. A cursory reading of the other's beliefs would probably indicate, 'This won't go well." Perhaps someone who is on an interfaith council where both are represented will add insight for you.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Although the religion of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Mahdi/Messiah of the Ahmadi sect (which is sharply divided over the status of Ahmad) and the religion of the Baha'is of Mirza Hussein Ali the Mahdi of Baha'ism, are different from one another, it seems that the bottom line in this generation is the same for both (as apparently western-influenced pacifist movements), that both men were the promised deliverer to defeat the dajjil through the spreading of their teachings and ushering in the world of peace (which in 100 years has certainly not happened).
But in the case of Ghulam Ahmad, what was the reason the vast majority of Muslim authorities and the public rejected him? On what theological basis did they feel he was not the mahdi promised in Muslim tradition?

The Baha'i Faith is not a Western influenced pacifist movement, and the religion of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad considers themselves Muslims, and likewise not a Western influenced pacifist movement. They may be described objectively as belief systems in their own right whether you agree with their beliefs or not, and should not be stereotyped from a biased perspective.

Would than the State of Israel be best described as a Western Zionist Nationalist militant Jewish movement?
 
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