How do Baha'is and Ahmadi Muslims relate to each other?

[paarsurrey]

And Ahamadiyya, I am told, is a reference to "Ahmad", which is another traditional name for Muhammad the Prophet. Of course, it is also the name of your branch of Islam.

Yes, Ahmad is another name of Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has also the traditional name of Ahmad. Ahmadiyya is the name of reformation and revival of Islam under a spiritual caliph/successor of Muhammad in the latter days.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Summing it all up, you seem to be telling us that your religious jurisprudence is named for its intent to go back to the pure beliefs of Muhammad. Does that sound accurate to you?

Yes, we follow the Law of the land/state we live in, as per Quran, in the secular matters. In the ethical, moral and spiritual matters we follow Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad with the "intent to go back to the pure beliefs of Muhammad" the founder of Islam.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has given no new Law Book, so in this understanding he has the imprint of Muhammad or the Seal of Muhammad on his reformation/revival movement and has not affected Muhammad's title Khatamun Nabiyyeen. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has brought no new-religion.
Whereas Bahaism, as they say, is a new religion.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I do not doubt that some of that indicates proximity to the Sunni, but it is not clear to me what it would be, nor why.

Yes, we have more proximity to the Sunnis, but we respect the twelve Shia Imams more than the other sunnis.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Looking for commonalities is very commendable, but, ultimately, the religions have to face their differences also. They can't be completely ignored can they?

That is correct, and my posts will be elaborating the differences with the Bahaism with reasons and respectfully.
Bahaism is a new religion, and they also admit it. Here, Bahaullah had "fallibility" instead the "infallibilty" the Bahais attribute to him.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The differences are very real and I described the issues before, and you have not responded.

Actually, the Baha'i Faith does not propose that the major, and even lesser Revelations and religions agree or are the same. As a matter of fact they do not for various reasons. First, religions definitely do become corrupted by human influence and culture they originate. The scripture, ie the Bible, does contain both Revelation from God, ancient mythology, and human beliefs, view of science, and actions that reflect the time they were revealed. Religion is progressive and evolves as humanity spiritually and physically evolves.

Based on the Torah I could conclude that Judaism is polytheistic or henotheistic religion. Is that the same religion as Judaism today?

"Is that the same religion as Judaism today?" Unquote

I agree here, Judaism is not the same religion that Moses taught. He did not even name it Judaism.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

You posted something in this thread? If so, which post and I'll go back and read it.

Of course, each religion has to present their Scriptures as something special. And, usually find reasons why the Scriptures of other religions lack something. But, within a religion, there has always been changes to their beliefs. Most of them seem to have a literal view, conservative view, and a liberal view and a whole bunch of new offshoots. Makes me question if any of it truly came from God, or was just people thinking God spoke to them.

"Makes me question if any of it truly came from God, or was just people thinking God spoke to them."Unquote

There are two types of Revelation:

~Wahee-e-Jalee or the Open/Explicit Word of G-d- its words are not the prophets words but the words are from G-d and not the words of the prophet/messenger. The words are given to him from the exterior. It is a phenomenon in which though G-d has no tongue or mouth or other parts of speech but he speaks and the human prophet/messenger understands it to Word of G-d, as it has not generated in his self, has come from the exterior.

~Wahee-e-Khafi or Hidden or general revelation - it pertains to every act the prophet/messenger does or speaks under general guidance of G-d. The prophet does not say that these are G-d's words but says that these are his words and the acts are his acts but under guidance of G-d.

So, these are different aspects of Revelation.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Can you give any examples of Ahmadis supporting Baha’is?

Have you read this, on the official website of Ahmadiyya Islam?

The Babi and Baha'i Religion | Islam Ahmadiyya

It goes much farther than just disagreeing with Baha’is. It maligns the character, motives and intentions of Baha’is and their prophets.

I meant a general support. We Ahmadiyya and the Bahaism both are peaceful people, if a Bahai mentions that there should be no war in the world, I will support it. And so on and so forth.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Can you give any examples of Ahmadis supporting Baha’is?

Have you read this, on the official website of Ahmadiyya Islam?

The Babi and Baha'i Religion | Islam Ahmadiyya

It goes much farther than just disagreeing with Baha’is. It maligns the character, motives and intentions of Baha’is and their prophets.

I have not yet read the article at the Ahmadiyya official website.
Regards

 

[duvduv]

Ironically, in terms of following, how is it that 99% of Ahmadis (Qadiani) accept a teaching that runs counter to all majority Islamic views and believe that Mirza Ghullam Ahmad was the same as Mohammad as Nabi/Rasullah??? How is it they strayed so far, as compared to the tiny alternative group called the Lahore Ahmadis who simply believe the mahdi as Ghullam Ahmad was a messenger who was NOT equivalent to Muhammad, and yet they only comprise something like 100,000 of some 10-20 million Ahmadis worldwide?!

 

[paarsurrey]

Ironically, in terms of following, how is it that 99% of Ahmadis (Qadiani) accept a teaching that runs counter to all majority Islamic views and believe that Mirza Ghullam Ahmad was the same as Mohammad as Nabi/Rasullah??? How is it they strayed so far, as compared to the tiny alternative group called the Lahore Ahmadis who simply believe the mahdi as Ghullam Ahmad was a messenger who was NOT equivalent to Muhammad, and yet they only comprise something like 100,000 of some 10-20 million Ahmadis worldwide?!

In religion the matters are decided not in terms of majority or minority, but in terms of truthfulness or otherwise.
We Ahmadiyya peaceful Islam whom others sometimes call as Qadiani don't believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was of the same status as was Muhammad peace and blessings of G-d may be on him. Muhammad was the the Principal or Leader and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was his follower like Aron was a follower of Moses or Jesus was a follower of Moses.

Regards

 

[duvduv]

Paarsurrey, then what is the difference between the Qadiani and the Lahore minority sect if both claim Ahmad the Mahdi is not like Muhammad? And what criteria do majority Muslims have for rejecting Ahmad as Mahdi ?!

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's an interesting question since both fit into the same category vis a vis being offshoots of Shi'ism and standing in contrast to canonical Sunni Islam.
How do they relate to each other, or how have they related to each other over the past 150 years?
Are they also both today merely international social service movements, the eastern version of the Salvation Army and the Unitarian church??

I’d love to meet them. I live in a remote area but if I were in an area where they are I would befriend them and I’m sure I can learn a lot from them and I would enjoy their company.

I tried to befriend other Faiths in my area but some of them told me they don’t mix with other religions as they might catch a spiritual disease. Pity because I would love to have them over for a meal and just be friends.

 

[ajay0]

I am an admirer of the Bahai religion for its universality and the Ahmadiya sect for its emphasis on scholarship and non-violence.

It is tragic that both these religious sects have been subjected to persecution by fundamentalists who are not able to see the bigger picture due to lack of wisdom, and perpetrate conflict instead.

Better cooperation between the bahais and ahmediyas can be a forcemultiplier for both of them against their common adversary of religious fundamentalism-terrorism. I would say the same goes for the Sufi sect, which is likewise a liberal and beautiful Islamic sect, spreading peace and love everywhere.

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey, then what is the difference between the Qadiani and the Lahore minority sect if both claim Ahmad the Mahdi is not like Muhammad? And what criteria do majority Muslims have for rejecting Ahmad as Mahdi ?!

Both sects believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi.

1. The Lahori sect does not declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet/messenger of G-d.
2. The Qadiani sect, as per the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad emphasize that being the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi he has the status of a prophet/messenger of G-d .
3. The Lahori sect does not have a Caliph to follow after the demise of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.(It is better to ask a Lahori person as to what they believe or not believe. This is what I understand about them).
   
4. The Qadiani sect believes the Caliphate after the demise of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Our present Caliph is Mirza Masroor Ahmad. He is the Fifth Caliph.

I belong to the Qadiani sect.

Regards

 

[duvduv]

Didn't you contradict yourself in your two postings regarding Point #1? If you believe that Mirza Ahmad was equivalent to Mohammed, then you can't say what you did earlier. If he is equivalent, then he cannot be like Aaron was to Moses because Aaron was NOT equivalent to Moses at all.
And what is the mainstream Muslim reason for rejecting Mirza as the Mahdi? What is their traditional criteria for knowing who is Mahdi (who is not even mentioned in the Quran)?

 

[paarsurrey]

Didn't you contradict yourself in your two postings regarding Point #1? If you believe that Mirza Ahmad was equivalent to Mohammed, then you can't say what you did earlier. If he is equivalent, then he cannot be like Aaron was to Moses because Aaron was NOT equivalent to Moses at all.
And what is the mainstream Muslim reason for rejecting Mirza as the Mahdi? What is their traditional criteria for knowing who is Mahdi (who is not even mentioned in the Quran)?

I didn't say that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was equivalent to Muhammad. Muhammad is the master and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is serving his cause.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I am an admirer of the Bahai religion for its universality and the Ahmadiya sect for its emphasis on scholarship and non-violence.

It is tragic that both these religious sects have been subjected to persecution by fundamentalists who are not able to see the bigger picture due to lack of wisdom, and perpetrate conflict instead.

Better cooperation between the bahais and ahmediyas can be a forcemultiplier for both of them against their common adversary of religious fundamentalism-terrorism. I would say the same goes for the Sufi sect, which is likewise a liberal and beautiful Islamic sect, spreading peace and love everywhere.

Yes, where-ever there is commonality with other religions or non-religions, there should be co-operation to work together. I appreciate one's wisdom.
Regards