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How do i know i'm ready?

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I don't really see Church of Satan as an organization to join for any reason other than to give "props" to LaVey. My understanding of LaVey has greatly expanded from "the best thing since cheese whiz" to "wow, he really just copy and pasted from a lot of better authors!"

To his credit he was great at publicizing the message, but I'm surprised no one came after him with lawsuits. In any case Church of Satan is not a functional spiritual or occult organization therefore really isn't in a class with Temple of Set. That's why I had my other recommendation, but honestly for me at this point I find that unless one of these groups basically reached out and grabbed me I probably could perpetually ignore them. I've inquired a little and I'm still quite undecided. Any group that can't clearly tell you why you need them is suspect. :)

I really don't need these groups to continue my work, but I wouldn't mind the experience of a group working as that is an aspect I haven't researched. So in this way I feel I bring value as I am a mature practitioner of the left hand path, but I am not looking to follow anyone at all. I don't need anyone to give me the lay of the land for me. I may just decide to continue this work privately who knows. :slap:
 

Daelach

Setian
Valor,

you know the tablets as I do; the ruby one contains most of the "real" stuff they have to offer. The higher ones are mainly about adminisitrative stuff of little actual value to the LHP initiate. The TOS guys seem to proceed the "normal" way - gathering interesting stuff from all kinds of people that compose the members. And the more useful things mainly comprise real life experiences; like, say, learning from a professional salesman how to take in people. Such a guy knows what he is talking about because he is DOING it. The rest, mainly occult stuff about "the black flame", "prince of darkness", "mandate" and so on, is dispensable IMO.

But hey - you don't need "Setians" for that. Concerning martial arts, you could contact some martial arts master (like you seem to be yourself). Or if you want to learn something about the power of the sea, then go and drop into a sailing club. Interested in meditation? There are countless of non-"Setian" schools who teach it. The point is that the TOS acts in the same manner anyway. There are no big, shiny, deep secrets which you will not also find outside its walls.

I myself avoid dull people and seek out interesting ones. They don't have to be "Setians", they just must be interesting people I can share stuff with and learn stuff from. The only thing I largely have to drop is "Setian babble". But that is only packaging, not the content. Is a book worth more if it is not wrapped into an old newspaper, but in gift wrap paper? IMO not. And I escape group think because I do not focus on one single group. Someties, that makes me having to quit some group - but hey, as long as I have learnt the useful stuff, why keeping on to linger around anyway? The P in LHP does not mean "parking-lot" (-;

The price, of course, is that I don't get such people served on a silver tablet just by sending out some email. No, I must seek them out in real life. I must know how to attract them "in the wild". While this is not as convenient as the silver tablet, it is certainly a useful ability in itself. It is a kind of "real" magic.

You see, "real" magic, not some occult hopping around, getting some cargo cult started. Magic is not about rituals, you don't need to know any of those so-called "important" stuff, like the banning pentagram ritual and so on. You don't need to read big books by Crowley and others. You just need to know how to bend reality, and how to draw something from anything that happens.

Let me state a little example. Last weekend, I was on a darkwave/gothic festival with international attendance. I was in the mood of speaking French, one of the four languages I speak fluently, and I like it very much. So I took some fantasy army uniform with me, bearing the French flag. I knew that being in camo on a festival where black clothes dominate would draw attention, and the flag would draw attention especially from francophone people. Well I even succeeded in meeting a francophone Canadian (here in Europe, on a festival!) which was very interesting because I never had heard Canadian French before. I did not do some occult "ritual", I just bent reality. Well that was an easy one, but you get the impression of what I mean by "real magic".

If things happen which I do not like, and this happens more than just casually (I'm not almighty yet, so.. *g*), than I sit back and ask myself what I did to attract such things. Not in the sense of "who is to blame", more like "what goes around, comes around". If deal with kettles, I can expect to get black hands, and if I don't like that, I better avoid them. Even if it is not me who had blackened them. That may be something like "higher black magic" or so. You see, stepping back in your life, checking your position, checking your heading, and determine another course if necessary. You don't need to recite some occult gobbledeegook. Except of course, for the pleasure of the asthetics of some occult stuff, if you are inclined so. I am, from time to time, but I know that this is mainly a theatre piece where the audience is - me. Well, why not enjoy a piece of my own (-;

So being a member of <insert big flashy freak organisation here> is certainly a way, but not better or (in the end) even faster than doing things yourself. The ability to do so, in fact, is an important lesson to learn. You can learn to go by watching a TV documentation, read about it, talk about it.. but you could just stand up. Probably, you would fall down the first times. Well, in that case, you can learn something else besides going: standing up after you fell instead of staying down. Take that metaphorically (-;

Summary: if you focus on being a Setian rather than on coming across as one, your Xeper will run on any fuel.
 

aa_nerut

Member
Daelach, I would go one step further by saying don't even focus on being an ....ism, just Xeper.
Take after the god of the Israelites and say "I am That I am" or take the advice of Yoda and "do or do not, there is no try".

....ism of any sort should not be the goal, in my opinion.
 

Valor

Active Member
Let me state a little example. Last weekend, I was on a darkwave/gothic festival with international attendance. I was in the mood of speaking French, one of the four languages I speak fluently, and I like it very much. So I took some fantasy army uniform with me, bearing the French flag. I knew that being in camo on a festival where black clothes dominate would draw attention, and the flag would draw attention especially from francophone people. Well I even succeeded in meeting a francophone Canadian (here in Europe, on a festival!) which was very interesting because I never had heard Canadian French before. I did not do some occult "ritual", I just bent reality. Well that was an easy one, but you get the impression of what I mean by "real magic".
.

Yes, this is identified as "expansive LBM" or (werewolf mode)

I have to say you are ALL absolutely right, everyone single one of you have given me great advice and i value the time you took to respond. Very much appreciated. Thank you to you all. I'm not joining anything anytime soon.

I thank each and everyone of you.;)
 

Valor

Active Member
Glad you're getting a kick out of me.

No, no... not you Etu, it was the remark concerning getting the priesthood involved. The timing was right on. You replied as soon as i made it open in another thread that the priesthood hardly gets involved over the more important matters, the ones that could use their advice/opinions.

Then you replied here with the exact advice i was stressing earlier. No, i value your opinion Etu. Would never laugh at ya.
 

KHPR

Social Meritocratist
Daelach, I would go one step further by saying don't even focus on being an ....ism, just Xeper.
Take after the god of the Israelites and say "I am That I am" or take the advice of Yoda and "do or do not, there is no try".

....ism of any sort should not be the goal, in my opinion.

Dr. Aquino has made numerous comments that he doesn't like people using the term "Setianism" because it kind of creeps him out in an L. Ron Hubbard kind of way.

You hit it on the head. It's about the Xeper, not the ...ism.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR, The Voice of Darkness
Perceptum. Defero. Genero.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
I do not really understand why you have a problem with the ism, may be it is because German Kulture thinks in other ways??

Why I use The Word Setianism is, at first it is shorter than THose who walk a Setian path and all know in what direction it refers...

It also shows that It is NOT one path, that there is not only one way to walk it.

The ISM (-ismus) shows that there are different ways to walk, to define, to life it. When I accept the different ways of being Setian for me as Member of German Kutrurecircle Setianism - Setianismus is the best way to include all ideas of the Setian path..

May be there is a different understanding in America of this, because I can not follow the Statement with Hubbard....
 

KHPR

Social Meritocratist
I do not really understand why you have a problem with the ism, may be it is because German Kulture thinks in other ways??

Adding ism to the end of something turns it into a path to be followed. People who are into Set aren't followers for the most part. Granted, this could be argued back and forth, but adding ism to it tends to attract more followers than leaders.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness
 

Ahanit

Active Member
Ahhh

looking from this Point of view you are right, I had allways thought from the view of many paths, not from Follower ;)

I am walking not following

:run:

:fsm: hey out of the way LOL

Excuse me this picture came to my mind LOL
 

Valor

Active Member
Ahhh

looking from this Point of view you are right, I had allways thought from the view of many paths, not from Follower ;)

I am walking not following

:run:

:fsm: hey out of the way LOL

Excuse me this picture came to my mind LOL


Im finding that you're sentences when translated to english are often very cute and inocent, i cant help but to smile when reading your posts. I think your doing well with what your working with concerning english. How is the translation to German? Good im hoping.
 

Daelach

Setian
but adding ism to it tends to attract more followers than leaders.

Of course. In society there are more followers than leaders, that is the reason. Likewise, you could argue that wearing shoes attracts more followers than leaders.

However, I don't see the label "Setianism" so bad. "Setianetics", THAT would be bad, concerning Aquino's misliking for Hubbard comparisons. But the refutation is easy: Scientology is about making money, about sucking out its members with absurdly overpriced seminars. The TOS charges a fixed price per year, and not overly much. In fact, being a member of a martial arts school, a football or chess club will not cost less, just to put the sum of 80 bucks (IIRC) in a context.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
It is much easier to understand english than to write it down... Many German words can not really translated one to one into English, you have often to make Compromises.

I do not know if it is because of the language, but I think we in German have much more words to differ things in little steps. So it is more Accurate when Explain special things. That is not only my opinion, I remember an Artikle about Tolkin about the translation of Lord of the Rings into German. He worked himself with the translator and was so happy about all the abilities the German language gives to make the story deeper than in English...
 

Valor

Active Member
Of course. In society there are more followers than leaders, that is the reason. Likewise, you could argue that wearing shoes attracts more followers than leaders.

However, I don't see the label "Setianism" so bad. "Setianetics", THAT would be bad, concerning Aquino's misliking for Hubbard comparisons. But the refutation is easy: Scientology is about making money, about sucking out its members with absurdly overpriced seminars. The TOS charges a fixed price per year, and not overly much. In fact, being a member of a martial arts school, a football or chess club will not cost less, just to put the sum of 80 bucks (IIRC) in a context.

Yes, 80$ is a very fair anual price for affiliation in any lhp org. When i joined the CoS i think it was 75$... but now i understand its a one time 200$ fee.

Concerning "ism"? I don't think it matters one bit. When we add ism to anything, it means the "practice" of a particular system,style or philosophy, the act of practition must be acknowledged and this act is accompanied with an "Ism".

What else would we call the Setian philosophy in action, setian'ing? C'mon now, wake up. Just because Mr. Aquino said he's not comfortable with it doesn't mean its not valid. Im not comfortable with many things, but i know it doesn't matter to anyone but myself. Mr. Aquino is a great inspiration but he needs to experience humility. Something i need too as well...being humbled by something greater than you is honorable.
 
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Valor

Active Member
Concerning "ism"? I don't think it matters one bit. When we add ism to anything, it means the "practice" of a particular system,style or philosophy, the act of practition must be acknowledged and this act is accompanied with an "Ism".

What else would we call the Setian philosophy in action, setian'ing? C'mon now, wake up. Just because Mr. Aquino said he's not comfortable with it doesn't mean its not valid. Im not comfortable with many things, but i know it doesn't matter to anyone but myself. Mr. Aquino is a great inspiration but he needs to experience humility. Something i need too as well...being humbled by something greater than you is honorable.

I just wanted to agree with myself...lol. (no humility)
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Of course. In society there are more followers than leaders, that is the reason. Likewise, you could argue that wearing shoes attracts more followers than leaders.

However, I don't see the label "Setianism" so bad. "Setianetics", THAT would be bad, concerning Aquino's misliking for Hubbard comparisons. But the refutation is easy: Scientology is about making money, about sucking out its members with absurdly overpriced seminars. The TOS charges a fixed price per year, and not overly much. In fact, being a member of a martial arts school, a football or chess club will not cost less, just to put the sum of 80 bucks (IIRC) in a context.
The TOS is just as much about its money as Scientology if they are charging people just to say they believe a certain thing. No knowledge should come with a membership fee.
 

MacKinnon

Member
The Temple does not charge "people just to say they believe a certain thing". I suggest you have a look at the general information letter to gain some better understanding as to what the Temple is and what it's members pay for.
 

Daelach

Setian
The TOS is just as much about its money as Scientology if they are charging people just to say they believe a certain thing.

AFAIK, the TOS does not charge seminars etc. with thousands of dollars, like Scientology does.

No knowledge should come with a membership fee.

In the real world, you have to pay for things. Not for the knowledge itself, but the TOS will not get its webspace for free. You have to pay for a domain like xeper.org. When they send printed documents to their members, the printer will not have printed them for free. If someone makes a car ride specifically on behalf of the temple, the petrol will cost something. And so on.

The TOS' membership does not cost more than a chess or football club membership. I was a member in a chess club for many years, and we had quite some expenses. The rooms, driving to tournaments, getting the material, replacing material, buying trophies for the club tournaments and so on. None of us was paid by the club, so we all did it in our leisure time beside our regular jobs - just like the TOS members.

Now I don't have access to the TOS' annual balance sheet, nor am I interested in it, but from what I know about running real world clubs, the annual fee hardly can be used to make money. They have about 200 members, plusminus some, and $80 per year sums up to roughly $16000 per year. Even IF Aquino just took all the money for himself (which I am NOT saying he is does!!), that would never make him rich. In fact, counting the time invested, he could have made more money by a regular career.

If an employer offered me a salary of $16000 per year, I just would laugh at him. Just to put "making money" in a context.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I'm not saying these things don't cost money, but I believe the money should be given freely, not collected in an annual fee.
 
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