• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How do i know i'm ready?

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I admire those of you that seek Setamorphosis using a solitary path.
I can understand a bitterness from not getting what one desires (afterall, this is a LHP trait).
But I would like to add;
If you commit a felony while in the Temple, you will be removed from the Temple
If you committed a felony before being in the Temple, you will not get in to the Temple
If you cannot Become Recognized to Adept within a two year period, you will be removed from the Temple
If you become detrimental to the Temple in any capacity, you will be removed from the Temple

My personal experience is that being part of the TOS is most beneficial towards Setamorphosis.


EM
Doesn't this go against the philosophy of power of Self? In what world does joining a group help you become more of an individual? If you ask me, it is wrong to set standards of acceptance for a group centered on the promotion of Self. It makes you no different than the religions who put themselves in a class above "sinners". I don't know much about the ToS, but I don't agree with this practice at all. I have a criminal record; it doesn't make me any less worthy of knowledge that everyone should posess.
 

Valor

Active Member
Doesn't this go against the philosophy of power of Self? In what world does joining a group help you become more of an individual? If you ask me, it is wrong to set standards of acceptance for a group centered on the promotion of Self. It makes you no different than the religions who put themselves in a class above "sinners". I don't know much about the ToS, but I don't agree with this practice at all. I have a criminal record; it doesn't make me any less worthy of knowledge that everyone should posess.

;) I second you.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I should say that I do not speak for the TOS, and perhaps my points could have been incorrectly stated. I am sure one of the priests could speak on this matter much better than I.


EM
 

blackout

Violet.
Is ANY exclusion ideal?

Is it possible for an organization
to be "ideal" in the world as it is?

I don't know.

What would be fair and right to you all,
regarding who is and isn't "allowed"
if you were to begin your own LHP initiatory organization?

I'm not just speaking to the fellony/legality issue either.
I mean in general.
What type of participation/membership requirements
would suit what is essentially the "Path of the Individual"?
 

ktf

Member
Brilliant questions! I am honored to be the first one to venture a reply.

I think that on principal there would be no need for a list of preordained exclusions. I think that the Elect will Recognize themselves and their fellows. Moving forward from that idea, I think that the ideal situation would be that a candidate would need to physically seek out a member of the hypothetical Order. After a minimum period of say 4 weeks of face to face interactions the candidate could petition the member for admission into the Order. Anyone who had made it this far would be admitted for a probationary period of 6 months. During this time the probate would be tested in various ways by multiple members of the Order. The tests would ideally be physical, mental/intellectual, and magickal. The tests would be failable. It would not be expected that the probate would pass all test but rather that they would demonstrate a resourcefulness and ability to adapt and learn. During this period the probate would be expected to prove a basic proficency in magickal theory and practice. The culmination of the 6 months would be an Initiation that could be passed or failed. I concieve of this as something involving a deep fear in the probate and their ability to overcome it. If the probate passes through the Initiation then they obtain full membership in the Order.

To go a little further: once a member of the Order one would have access to all of the knowledge, writings, and practices of the Order. Nothing would be hidden or kept from members based on degrees. To take an example from the mundane world, if I attend a college I have the ability to audit any class I want, check out any book from the library, study any published paper etc. I might not be able to understand advanced physics as a freshman...but I can read all the books, listen to the lectures, and study the material as much as I want. And who knows, I might understand it. In the same way, all Order material would be available to all members.

To briefly summerize: I think that membership in an ideal LHP School should be based on ability and Xeper. I think that ability and ability to Xeper should be tested and proved, but if one has that ability this is what should matter.
Regarding an individuals past: I am not particularly interested in the specifics of an individuals past. I do not care about criminal records, past addictions, or moral failings. Everyone...or everyone who is worth knowing...has a few skeletons in the closet. The important point, espically as it relates to activity in an Initiatory School, is that one demonstrate the ability to activate Willed change (Xeper) in regard to their past and future. In my opinion it is this ability that should be the upmost criteria for a School.

Thank you UV for this question. I think it is something that those of us who have been critical of the ToS and other groups should seriously think about. If we as LHP practioners look around us and see no School that meets our needs, or no School that we could feel comfortable joining, then I think we should begin to consider the possibility of creating a few new ones.
 

Valor

Active Member
I should say that I do not speak for the TOS, and perhaps my points could have been incorrectly stated. I am sure one of the priests could speak on this matter much better than I.


EM

And I don't see them chiming in anywhere. I don't blame them.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
It means exactly that, "i don't blame them." I don't blame them not chiming in on a conversation they most likely have had countless of times. Who you engage in such?
I see. Sorry, what do you mean by "Who you engage in such?"?
 

blackout

Violet.
To be fair Sireal & Magister Adams are quite busy.

I'm sure RF is not WAY high up on their
"things to do today" list.

I personally am glad they stop by here at all.
 

Valor

Active Member
To be fair Sireal & Magister Adams are quite busy.


:) Are they? maybe it's convienance? I never got the notice personally...lol... then again, i'm a fellon, so......... i'm left outa the important stuff.

Roar!... Roar!!! "fear the fellon"...lmao! (pathetic) My fingernail is longer than my record...

I'm chief operating executive for a construction firm, i just happend to build and own, i instruct martial arts on the weekends and attend school and family...but i still make time concerning my Path and for my fellow initiates here and 3 other forums...i'm busy too...but i make time while i thrive in the hard work thats expected being a LHP pratitioner. If you don't enjoy hard work, then treading the LHP maybe isn't someones gig.
 
Last edited:

blackout

Violet.
They are Priests of the ToS,
not Priests of the ToRF.

We are ALL busy.

We just choose... and have committed ourSelves
to be busy with different things.
:shrug:
 

blackout

Violet.
I know you would choose, Valor
to be a member of the ToS,
but fairness of the temple rules aside,
it really is unfair to take out your personal disapointment
on Sireal and Magister Adams.

I'm quite sure they are not the ones who made the rules.

It really isn't their responsibility to explain/defend/whatever
the Temple's every decision making process to us here.
Primarilly, I HOPE, we are all here as INDIVIDUALs
to help one another Xeper and Remanifest.

That's why I'm here anyway.
 

Valor

Active Member
I know you would choose, Valor
to be a member of the ToS,.

Not anymore my dearest Violet...not anymore.


it really is unfair to take out your personal disapointment
on Sireal and Magister Adams.
.

I was very clear stating that my quarrel is with the rule maker alone. nfact I also made it very clear that i respect those who are affiliated...this includes our members here, they've worked very hard to be where they are. I observed their absence, nothing more.

Be careful not to put words in my mouth Voilet...take the highest of care in this.;) Thank you.
 
Last edited:

blackout

Violet.
:) Are they? maybe it's convienance? I never got the notice personally...lol... then again, i'm a fellon, so......... i'm left outa the important stuff.

Roar!... Roar!!! "fear the fellon"...lmao! (pathetic) My fingernail is longer than my record...

I'm chief operating executive for a construction firm, i just happend to build and own, i instruct martial arts on the weekends and attend school and family...but i still make time concerning my Path and for my fellow initiates here and 3 other forums...i'm busy too...but i make time while i thrive in the hard work thats expected being a LHP pratitioner. If you don't enjoy hard work, then treading the LHP maybe isn't someones gig.

S'fine.

What you actually mean is far more important
than how your words are coming off to me.

Who would I be to say what you mean? :shrug:
 

Valor

Active Member
S'fine.

What you actually mean is far more important
than how your words are coming off to me.

Who would I be to say what you mean? :shrug:

No worries Violet.

I was stating in that reply that i was busy, but i make time to advance in my refinement in any way possible. But i understand how you may have been confused.
 

aa_nerut

Member
Valor,
you wrote...
"I lost total respect. Period. I'm thinking of going back to the CoS as an "active member" this time."
Can I ask you what you plan on getting out of joining an organization, be it the CoS or the ToS, and more importantly what will you do with being a member of an organization?
 

Apion

Member
Excellent question, aa_nerut.

Valor, you're better holding off. Organizations should be the extra cream of your life, not its central fulcrum. If you do decide to join an organization, get in the habit of thinking how you will benefit the organization through your uniqueness, not as another member of the crowd. You'll get a better experience. And if you leave the group, the most that you lose is an accessory to your life. Utility is not identity.
 
Last edited:
Top